No doer or thinker - Animatrons

[zendancer]

Frank: Thanks for posting that link. I hadn't seen a video of Ramesh in many years, and that's a good one. He is probably ten or fifteen years older in this video than the ones I had seen before, and although it was just as humorous as his others, this one got a real emotional response from me. Watching him here, at the end of his life, makes me realize what I missed when I didn't get to visit with him in Germany. He was a very cool guy.

One of his favorite quips to seekers was that if they had a choice between enlightenment and a million bucks, they should take the million bucks. That one always cracked me up. Here are some other vignettes I remember in connection with Ramesh:

Wayne Liquorman (what a name considering what happened!) was a total alcoholic. He had been drinking like a fish for years and was never sober. One night he suddenly, and completely out of the blue, realized that he would never take another drink of alcohol again. This sudden event made him realize that the true nature of the universe must be much different than what he had previously thought because he realized that "he" didn't have anything to do with what had happened. That started him on a spiritual search, and it was only after he found Ramesh and heard him explain what's going on that he began to see into the truth of reality. Liquorman is now a teacher in the same tradition as Balsekar.

Satyam Nadeen (author of "From Onions to Pearls"), while imprisoned in a hell hole Florida prison (for possession of Ecstasy), read one line from a book by Ramesh and had a huge enlightenment experience. The line was "consciousness is all there is."

In the Ramesh video he makes some good points about enlightenment and what it delivers. Peace of mind is what you get, but what is it worth? I'd say everything. Cheers.

[frankshank]

ZD: When I first watched the video I felt a bit underwhelmed. Here was this seemingly wise guy telling me that all 'I' was going to get was peace. At that stage, not that many months back, I had it in my head that the end game was going to be 'me' having one long blissful experience. I think it was shortly after that, that I started the thread asking people whether they'd prefer enlightenment or an amazing dream if they had the choice. I've watched it again a few times since then and despite the serious edge to it, his humour shines through. I think I undervalued peace on reflection. Glad you connected with the video Bob (hopefully in a positive way). There are plenty more on Youtube!

Thanks for the extra info. You are a vital source of fascinating information!!

[peanut]

zendancer...thanks for posting the video....cracked me right up..would like to check out his written word. Never heard enlightenment described in quite that way...do you think peace is the result of realizing the nature of reality?

[loverofall]

Thanks ZD. I have read what I could find on the net and it resonates.

I do enjoy watching Criminal Minds and its interesting to see the disgust or revulsion arise and then shift to see that the killers are just a result again of environment, conditioning and biology.

It becomes easy to see how forgiveness is easy because "they do not know what they do".

Also interesting to see without the killers there would be no FBI Agents. The drama would not exist without the dark and light sides dancing.

I then am drawn to how crazy it is to think we have control when there are a billion cells following an intelligence in our body. We take this one process of thinking and take ownership.

Its so clear about no control and doer and thinker. It actually makes it easier to let go of past hurts and forgive seeing the illusion more which will open up the heart more. COOL!

[zendancer]

Jun 8, 2010 18:14:58 GMT -5 peanut said:

zendancer...thanks for posting the video....cracked me right up..would like to check out his written word. Never heard enlightenment described in quite that way...do you think peace is the result of realizing the nature of reality?

Peanut: We owe our thanks to Frank/Andy for the video. In my case I had never really thought about peace of mind in relationship to enlightenment until I watched the Ramesh video, but yes, I would agree with him that that is a fundamental result of self realization.

Until I saw the video I would have gone a lot further than Ramesh in describing various benefits of enlightenment, but upon reflection, the benefits I would have pointed to might be due more to various training exercises than enlightenment. Let me see if I can explain what I mean.

Most adults live almost totally in their heads, so they don't see or interact with reality like young children. They live ego-centered lives and are clueless about the truth. The path of nonduality therefore has two related but perhaps different potential consequences. The major goal for most seekers is enlightenment, but a secondary goal, or secondary consequence of seeking enlightenment, is a complete change in the way life is lived. IOW while on the way to enlightenment many people re-learn how to live like young children and their mental state becomes unencumbered by incessant thoughts. They become action-oriented, never worry about anything, and develop a childlike kind of joie de vivre. This leads to a kind of inner happiness and joy that simply bubbles forth continuously.

They have, in a sense, re-trained their body/minds, through daily practice, to interact with reality directly. Many Zen Buddhists, for example, have practiced zazen so long that they can fall into samadhi with ease and thereby drop off their body and mind on a daily basis, which is a lot like hitting the "clear" button on a calculator. Other people who have practiced constantly shifting from thoughts to direct perception reach an equally clear state of mind. People who re-train themselves in this way fully accept reality as it is, love being one-with it, and never waste any time thinking that it should be different than it is. They deal with whatever issues arise in the immediacy of the moment and therefore carry no unresolved issues into the future.

People like this respond to the world much like little children, yet retain the full intellectual capabilities of an adult. They may get angry, but if they do, it passes by like a summer storm, and afterwards the sun comes out again. They live life as if they are at play all the time. When they work, their work is the kind of play that is pointed to in this quote from ancient Greece: "Happiness is the maximum exercise of a man's (or woman's) capacities against standards of excellence." Whatever they do, they do for no reason at all, in total emptiness, and in deep love, gratitude, and reverence for "what is." They are, in a sense, dancing all the time in the totality of their isness.

Cheers.

[loverofall]

Zendancer: Thats a very clear explanation of what I experience more and more. The resistance and suffering seems more ridiculous.



I am reading "Thoughts without a Thinker" by Mark Esptein who was a buddhist before becoming a psychologist. Its a great read if you want to see how Buddhism and Western Psychology overlap and are at odds. Apparently Freud near the end of his life regretted not taking a more in depth look at Buddhism. Freud did have many insights that buddhism already had.

[peanut]

zendancer...thanks for your response..clear as ever and also helpful.

you said...

"Other people who have practiced constantly shifting from thoughts to direct perception reach an equally clear state of mind. People who re-train themselves in this way fully accept reality as it is, love being one-with it, and never waste any time thinking that it should be different than it is. They deal with whatever issues arise in the immediacy of the moment and therefore carry no unresolved issues into the future.

People like this respond to the world much like little children, yet retain the full intellectual capabilities of an adult. They may get angry, but if they do, it passes by like a summer storm, and afterwards the sun comes out again. They live life as if they are at play all the time. When they work, their work is the kind of play that is pointed to in this quote from ancient Greece: "Happiness is the maximum exercise of a man's (or woman's) capacities against standards of excellence." Whatever they do, they do for no reason at all, in total emptiness, and in deep love, gratitude, and reverence for "what is." They are, in a sense, dancing all the time in the totality of their isness. "

Cheers.

The above seems to speaks ...fully accepting reality as it is....thoughts ugh..ready to not live in this head any longer..on fire