waking up while still

[wilson]

this thread is about waking up. if you don't think that you are asleep then please don't jam this thread with arguments. i have had brief experiences with being close to a wakeful state without dying. i often compare the sleep with being at the movies so the two get interchanged when i write. this illusion is pretty with a thousand little shiney things to hold our attention. but i'm not really caring a lot about an illusion.

[Portto]

Good morning, Wilson!
What do you care about?

[wilson]

i suppose this is where we have an intellectual discourse concerning life. but i've had this conversation with those who just wanted to believe that, for lack of better words, they could have their cake and eat it too. but i think that there is a difference between knowing the words to the song and being able to play and sing that song. you've been on the site for a while (a year july) probably studied extensively before beginning to post. so let me ask you, are you awake or does it come and go?

[wilson]

next question. what if this life is the only chance that you will ever have to coming this close to enlightenment, to being fully awake?
are you going to want to miss this opportunity? is oh well i had a kicking stereo, or a great apartment, or wonderful whatever? are any of these okay with any of you?

[zendancer]

Hi Wilson. Welcome to the forum. I think 99% of the folks here are pretty serious about non-duality and waking up. When you get a chance, tell us about your experiences and what you're doing to wake up. Are you pursuing any particular practices? Cheers.

[wilson]

if i said anything to make you believe that all of you aren't serious then i apologize to your bruised and battered ego. but in truth zendancer you know exactly what i mean. there always seems to be this stopping point in this quest this place at which we no longer know what lies beyond. it catches me everyday. i began my practice with simple breath counting and trying to be as conscious of my breath as often as possible. i am not a good meditator i have trouble with focus. so i began a practice using the I AM about 5 years ago. just constantly but gently refocusing whenever i remembered. i began to see some results after maybe 6 to 8 months i could feel THAT but it was always fleeting, always momentary.
so when i ask questions about being awake and whether or not it comes and goes it is actually a compliment because i know that porto has probably achieved some level of realization. although when he asked me what i cared about he was just being a smart a**. see i have come to a conclusion concerning awakening, to really get their one must be put outside of one's comfort zone and it's the ego that is guarding the door to that zone. any ideas?

[wilson]

if i said anything to make you believe that all of you aren't serious then i apologize to your bruised and battered ego. but in truth zendancer you know exactly what i mean. there always seems to be this stopping point in this quest this place at which we no longer know what lies beyond. it catches me everyday. i began my practice with simple breath counting and trying to be as conscious of my breath as often as possible. i am not a good meditator i have trouble with focus. so i began a practice using the I AM about 5 years ago. just constantly but gently refocusing whenever i remembered. i began to see some results after maybe 6 to 8 months i could feel THAT but it was always fleeting, always momentary.
so when i ask questions about being awake and whether or not it comes and goes it is actually a compliment because i know that porto has probably achieved some level of realization. although when he asked me what i cared about he was just being a smart a**. see i have come to a conclusion concerning awakening, to really get their one must be put outside of one's comfort zone and it's the ego that is guarding the door to that zone. any ideas?

[zendancer]

Wilson: Believe me; you could not bruise my ego even if you wanted to because I know who I am. If you could bruise THAT, then even Nisargadatta would sit up and take notice. LOL.

I don't think Porto was being a smart a** when he responded to you. When new people show up here, most of us are interested to learn whether they have had direct experiences or whether they are living in their heads. Porto, like most of us, is both curious and friendly, and all of us are interested in what people have to say about their life experiences (everyone loves a good story).

My only observation concerns your phrase, " I have come to a conclusion concerning awakening." When someone comes to a conclusion about something, it usually means that he/she has gotten attached to an idea. On this path it is much more helpful to stay detached and open to all possibilities. What if what you're trying to get to isn't somewhere other than where you already are? What if, at this very moment, in whatever comfort zone you are in, everything you are looking for is already present?

AAR, I think you'll find this an entertaining board. Cheers.

[wilson]

well, as usual i am much better talking than typing. my ideas get muddled and my explanations lose their way.
thanks.

[Portto]

Good to have you here, Wilson.
You seemed to be worried and tense - but that was just my interpretation.
You are definitely very deep in this "thing."

Stuff comes and goes for me all the time. I only read ~4 "spiritual" books after my mind briefly stopped working and I spent a few days smiling at everyone like a nut.

[karen]

Hi Wilson.

It seems most people (myself included) who come here expect the typical forum mind-set where there is a competition of oneupmanship. You can see many of the regulars' postings evolve as we realize we've found a place that actually cares about waking up rather than showing off.

Myself - I fall in and out of presence.

[wilson]

porto, definitely understand the goofy smiling thing. and yet i can also get the sisyphus thing going and i'm tired of walking back down that damn hill. i suppose that i'm leaving something undone or it would no longer be necessary. i am also physically changing my ears have become very sensitive a voice is like a fog horn, even the physical closeness has become uncomfortable.

karen, thanks for the group over view most group dynamic can get a little weird without some oversight. where would you draw the line to remain in presence continuosly or do you feel that just the knowledge that presence is there enough? i guess it's not that i am that wired or all upset but i do like to find some sort of resolution right now i feel like i'm just straddling the fence.

[zendancer]

Wilson: This message is directed at who Wilson IS rather than who Wilson thinks he is. Leave thoughts behind and just stay focused on what you can see, hear, feel, and directly experience through the body. Trust yourself 100%. Not-knowing pure awareness is the way. You cannot feel straddling an imaginary fence; that's imaginary. Stay with pure feeling and you can't go wrong. That's real. Cheers.

[enigma]

I had some thoughts along the lines of ZD's. The thoughts actually started when I read the comment "I fall in and out of presence". My first thought was, 'Well, no, you don't. As presence, you fall in and out of thought', which reminded me that every woo woo experience, every moment of unspeakable Peace, every 'God tear', happened in my absence. The recognition of Love happened in the absence of either lover or beloved, and so there is no question of it being 'my' doing.

This seems to be a critical discovery as it irrevocably alters the perceptions that 'I need resolution' or 'I'm straddling the fence', or 'I fall out of presence'. It becomes clear that in 20 years, 'I' haven't moved an inch closer, nor could I move an inch away. I'm not moving at all. In 20 years, I haven't learned anything that is of benefit, but i have unlearned.

When unlearning is the goal, the process changes and the point of reference changes. It's no longer 'I fall in and out of Love, Joy, Peace', but rather 'Oh, my, what an interesting thought.'

[karen]

May 8, 2010 15:37:24 GMT -5 @wilson said:

where would you draw the line to remain in presence continuosly or do you feel that just the knowledge that presence is there enough?

Knowledge for me is not enough by a long shot. It has to be real for me 100%. It cannot be a mind thing for me since I have the mind part down as best I feel I can, and I have found it wanting.

I suppose the most vexing thing for me is the low level (or gross) fear that permeates life. I think I'd be content if that were simply gone. I don't wish much anymore for spiritual experience. The suffering gone I'd settle with. The mind-knowing isn't helpful in this regard at all once the euphoria of feeling special wears off.