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Post by loverofall on May 6, 2010 14:05:33 GMT -5
one would see itself through a trillion eyes.
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Post by zendancer on May 6, 2010 16:11:45 GMT -5
It is simpler than that.
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Post by loverofall on May 6, 2010 16:38:26 GMT -5
nothing
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Post by loverofall on May 6, 2010 16:40:21 GMT -5
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Post by Portto on May 6, 2010 18:33:23 GMT -5
Go, Frank, Go!
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Post by frankshank on May 6, 2010 18:51:24 GMT -5
Now I know ZD doesn't have a stick I'll take my time!  |
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Post by zendancer on May 6, 2010 20:45:19 GMT -5
Nope, nope, and nope. The body knows, but the mind doesn't. Gotta leave the mind behind.
Okay, here are some more fun ones to play with.
1. Some people think Jesus was a pacifist and some people think he was an activist. One day he walked up to the entrance of the temple and turned over the tables of the money changers. Was this the act of a pacifist or an activist? How can you show a teacher that you understand the truth?
2. A guy who had three automobiles was planning to go his high school reunion. At first he decided to drive his Mercedes, but then he thought, "If I drive my Mercedes, my friends will think I'm showing off." He then decided to drive his old VW until he thought, "If I do that, I'll be showing off in a different way, and my friends will think I'm trying to show that I'm so cool I can drive an old car and won't care what anyone thinks." He then decided to drive his Chevrolet until he realized that how he viewed his friends' opinions of him was forcing him to pick his middle-of-the-road average-priced car. Suddenly, he had a minor enlightenment experience, and knew exactly which car he should drive. Which one did he drive?
3. It is raining. A sage points at the rain and asks a student, "What is that?" How should the student answer?
4. A sage points to a rose and asks, "What is that?" How should a student answer?
5. A sage holds up one finger and asks, "What is this?" How should a student answer?
6. A sage snaps his fingers and asks, "What is this?" How should a student answer?
7. A sage with gymnastic ability does a standing back flip and asks, "What was that?" How should a student answer?
Just some fun stuff to test your ability to access body-knowledge. As with all koans, the mind is useless here.
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Post by karen on May 6, 2010 23:35:40 GMT -5
1 and 2 seem easy.
3-7 I'm not so sure. I'm not sure how describe the indescribable. Maybe I just don't understand the form of these koans. What does one right answer mean?
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2010 4:21:36 GMT -5
Karen: I'll email you about this. I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone else.
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Post by enigma on May 8, 2010 0:06:51 GMT -5
Life!
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Post by wilson on May 8, 2010 7:00:35 GMT -5
it seems to me, and not to be disrespectful, but the whole koans thing just seem like zen crossword puzzles. in the struggle for the truth as that struggle pertains to each other. what difference does it make whether jesus was an activist or a pacifist, to waking up in this dream?
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Post by Portto on May 8, 2010 8:11:27 GMT -5
Okay, here are some more fun ones to play with. 1. Some people think Jesus was a pacifist and some people think he was an activist. One day he walked up to the entrance of the temple and turned over the tables of the money changers. Was this the act of a pacifist or an activist? How can you show a teacher that you understand the truth? 2. A guy who had three automobiles was planning to go his high school reunion. At first he decided to drive his Mercedes, but then he thought, "If I drive my Mercedes, my friends will think I'm showing off." He then decided to drive his old VW until he thought, "If I do that, I'll be showing off in a different way, and my friends will think I'm trying to show that I'm so cool I can drive an old car and won't care what anyone thinks." He then decided to drive his Chevrolet until he realized that how he viewed his friends' opinions of him was forcing him to pick his middle-of-the-road average-priced car. Suddenly, he had a minor enlightenment experience, and knew exactly which car he should drive. Which one did he drive? 3. It is raining. A sage points at the rain and asks a student, "What is that?" How should the student answer? 4. A sage points to a rose and asks, "What is that?" How should a student answer? 5. A sage holds up one finger and asks, "What is this?" How should a student answer? 6. A sage snaps his fingers and asks, "What is this?" How should a student answer? 7. A sage with gymnastic ability does a standing back flip and asks, "What was that?" How should a student answer? Just some fun stuff to test your ability to access body-knowledge. As with all koans, the mind is useless here. 1. I would punch the teacher, and then hug him/her. And hope he's not stronger than me. 2. The Mercedes. 3. Take a glass of water and pour it on a fellow zen student (or better yet, on the teacher). 4. Go in the garden, pick a rose, and put it in the hair. 5. Hold up a toe! 6. Clap his hands! 7. Start dancing! |
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Post by zendancer on May 8, 2010 9:19:30 GMT -5
it seems to me, and not to be disrespectful, but the whole koans thing just seem like zen crossword puzzles. in the struggle for the truth as that struggle pertains to each other. what difference does it make whether jesus was an activist or a pacifist, to waking up in this dream? Wilson: Koans are always pointing to the living truth, beyond language and thought. Zen teachers in some traditions use them to test how clear their students are, and to find out where they're stuck. Many people have awakened using koans, so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss their value. The "mu" koan, alone, has led to innumerable entries into the world of the absolute. As for the activist/pacifist koan, if you see the underlying reality clearly, then the koan won't make any difference to you. In that case a more appropriate koan for you would be, "Who are you, absolutely?" Cheers. |
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Post by loverofall on May 8, 2010 10:25:31 GMT -5
I totally understand Porto's answers.
But this is an intellectual understanding mixed with an intuitive understanding.
The Mercedes answer made total sense in a split second as soon as I read it. I was totally baffled by that until the answer was pointed out.
What does one see through a trillion eyes.
I would cover the zen masters eyes and then uncover them and spin him around to look at everything.
Ok let me know how much I am still in my mind. LOL.
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Post by zendancer on May 8, 2010 10:33:09 GMT -5
Loverofall: Your mind has still got a pretty good grip on you. LOL! Porto's answer might have made total sense, but the mind's sense and the body's sense are quite different. Same same with the trillion eyes koan. The answer is much more direct and a lot simpler.
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