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Post by vacant on May 3, 2010 19:07:30 GMT -5
To crudely sum up things coming up to the old question (as if!): it has become blatantly obvious that what the seeker seeks is what he/she already is thoroughly. Endeavor in that field is futile. I am told aplenty that ALL IS WELL, actually WHAT IS, IS PERFECT AS IS. On the way to digesting that, please forgive me fellow forumites, it seems we’re a bunch afflicted with some mental self doubting pathological disorder —save or include of course a few of you here having fallen off the cliff— thank you so much for your contributions. I am RESOLUTELY UNDECIDED (how’s that for polar juxtaposition?) about whether this contact with you guys is a blessing or a curse (shrug, it’s part of the way) and as a matter of fact RESOLUTELY UNDECIDED about all and anything. I am now playing in a theatrical or emotional way but back to the point… You have to admit that the “ignorance is bliss” syndrome sounds a whole lot more comfy, and perhaps a worthy short-cut to the endless chasing of one’s own tail. The old question? To pursue or not pursue — the blue pill or the red pill. Of course i WANT the process of seeing through illusion, otherwise i wouldn’t be here on this board. But as it becomes more and more clear from testimonies left and right that we already are what we seek, the choice is not so clear cut about trying or not. My general feel tends toward “let things be” as a healthy pointer, well hey, “let things be” includes letting vacant be illusioned and it’s all perfect like that. Not unlike the “live in ignorance” pill, I forget which color that one was! Ok, I’m past having choices here anyway, I seriously contemplate that I never had/have/will have any. What was that earlier in these threads about having one’s head in the tiger’s mouth??? Funny how there’s so many questions and no-one knows a darn thing… and that’s exactly the point! So come on, someone say it… it is just a common identity/personality disorder  Reach for the straight jacket. It’s a good thing that this road is laced with love! Evidently still holding on firmly to the seeking side, so if any knowing soul here feels I should give the thing up please ram-it-in in no subtle way, I’m somewhat stubborn when it comes to attachments… |
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Post by frankshank on May 3, 2010 20:19:53 GMT -5
LOL. You've eloquently summed up my thoughts. I think this forum is ideal for deep thinkers to let go of their thoughts. Ignorance is bliss and questions are a pain in the a**e! Read the posts and laugh is my advice. Soak up the madness everywhere and laugh real hard. That's what the 'enlightened' have certainly got right - it's one big joke. No matter what the truth is, it's one big joke. Don't take anything seriously and die with a smile on your face. Read the posts not for the answers but as a way of confirming that there aren't any!!
_____ , nothing, zero, zilch.
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park
Junior Member
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Post by park on May 3, 2010 20:38:36 GMT -5
Dear Vacant, I also find myself in a similar situation. The free will issue is especially hard for my mind to digest. I let it graze on the issue and it, as yours seems to also, immediately starts spurting all kinds of alarms and warnings. Straight jackets and lunatic asylums are frequently cited Then, the body gets also agitated, fatigued etc. However, I also seem to be noticing a process where each further "counteroffensive" of the mind is accompanied by a wider awareness that does not care so much for the content of the alarms. Sort of like a "been there, done that" or "ok, here we go again" thing. So, even though the mind does not seem to be giving up, there seems to be a bit more depth there with time. By your humorous approach I extrapolate that maybe this is also your experience? |
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Post by zendancer on May 3, 2010 21:14:40 GMT -5
Vacant: At one time my wife used to join me on Zen silent retreats, and periodically she would get irritated with the hard-core nature of what she saw in dedicated Zen fanatics. She would say, "These people are sort of sick. Why can't they just go live an ordinary life like other people? How can they sit for hours on a cushion in pain and keep coming back for more?" I always felt a bit defensive and would reply, "Well, they've come to a Zen hospital to find a cure for their existential sickness. At least they're trying to get free of their illusions. Other people don;t even know that they're deluded."
I think it was De Mello who wrote, "Most people are sound asleep. They get married in their sleep, have children in their sleep, and die in their sleep." At least the seekers of non-duality have a chance to wake up.
The good news is that if you are caught in the tiger's mouth, it means that the universe wants to wake up through you. The bad news is that you're temporarily stuck, and its up to the tiger what happens next. Will he just gnaw on you, or will he swallow you whole? Hopefully he'll decide to make a meal of you. LOL
The problem for most of us is that we can't stay present, and we therefore overlook what is always present. Instead, we constantly wander off into the mind, and think thoughts like, "I'm no good at this." "I'll never get it." "Why can't I wake up?" "What must I do?" "Why can't I be like other people?" "What's the secret?" "What does the truth look like?" Etc. Etc.
Rather than spinning in the mind, take a tip from Nisargadatta. He single-mindedly focused on the sense of "I am." You could just as well single-mindedly focus on what you can see or hear, or single-mindedly focus on the question "Who am I?" or single-mindedly focus on anything else that will hold your attention here and now and shut off the usual reflectivity.
Persistence, tenacity, and determination cannot be over-emphasized. Use whatever technique appeals to you, but use it ferociously! Look fate in the eyes and say "Scr*w you! I'm going to stay so present that you'll be forced to give me what I want!" Then, keep your attention focused on what is here and now like a cat crouching over a mousehole. Make your attention so intense that thoughts can't pull you away. If you can become that intense and that single-minded and that present, God will have no choice but to respond appropriately. Cheers.
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Post by vacant on May 4, 2010 9:52:02 GMT -5
Park,
oh yes, certainly. I seem to look at the going through the mill with more and more distance. I don't expect the mind to give up it's circus thing anytime soon and that's fine, but if i can quit believing that's me, some of the fog can dissipate...
And as ZD points out it becomes obvious Awareness wants to work its way here and i have no doubt It can do a fine job of it!
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Post by vacant on May 4, 2010 9:56:25 GMT -5
ZD,
thanks, you're on the button as usual, that pep talk hits home. Great for me to hear it said so. More relentless-ness can be handy here.
Fe-ro-cious-ly!
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Post by enigma on May 5, 2010 0:09:00 GMT -5
LOL. You've eloquently summed up my thoughts. I think this forum is ideal for deep thinkers to let go of their thoughts. Ignorance is bliss and questions are a pain in the a**e! Read the posts and laugh is my advice. Soak up the madness everywhere and laugh real hard. That's what the 'enlightened' have certainly got right - it's one big joke. No matter what the truth is, it's one big joke. Don't take anything seriously and die with a smile on your face. Read the posts not for the answers but as a way of confirming that there aren't any!! _____ , nothing, zero, zilch. There are plenty of valid answers. What seems to be conspicuously absent are the valid questions. The answer to every question is that the question is misconceived.  This doesn't imply they shouldn't be asked, it implies their validity should be questioned. |
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Post by frankshank on May 5, 2010 3:05:01 GMT -5
"There are plenty of valid answers. What seems to be conspicuously absent are the valid questions. The answer to every question is that the question is misconceived. This doesn't imply they shouldn't be asked, it implies their validity should be questioned." The bottom line is there is no proof and without proof this forum contains nothing but empty words. The truth is 'unimaginable', 'mysterious' etc etc.. If we are all one, prove it. ZD states that he can see through a trillion eyes right now. Which word have I written on the white envelope sitting next to me? |
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Post by Myself on May 5, 2010 7:18:56 GMT -5
The bottom line is there is no proof and without proof this forum contains nothing but empty words. The truth is 'unimaginable', 'mysterious' etc etc.. If we are all one, prove it. ZD states that he can see through a trillion eyes right now. Which word have I written on the white envelope sitting next to me? All words are empty, there's no secret about that. There is only one being: if you can perceive/interact with something, it is the same being you are. You are imagining that we should see what you have written in apparent separation. But there's no need for that. Your body appears to be one being, but you don't know how and when your stomach is churning food. |
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Post by frankshank on May 5, 2010 8:01:31 GMT -5
More empty words. LOL. Poets, the lot of you! |
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Post by zendancer on May 5, 2010 9:30:49 GMT -5
Frank/Andy: The funny thing is that you already understand how I see (and how you see) through a trillion eyes simultaneously, but your question suggests a terrific koan. Here it is:
"What does one see through a trillion eyes?"
If you find the answer, you're going to get a huge laugh. Here's another koan that points to the same kind of realization: "An old master used to say, 'Every day is a good day.' What does that mean?"
If you are thinking, you'll never find the answers. Stop thinking, and let the answers come from somewhere deeper than thought. To penetrate a koan you have to become radically present. Cheers.
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Post by frankshank on May 5, 2010 13:17:50 GMT -5
ZD/Bob: If an answer surfaces I'll let you know. I can think of some possible answers but that's it for now. I'll keep beating my hand against the floor. Alternatively, I could just raise my middle finger and scowl at you. That would be fun! |
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Post by zendancer on May 5, 2010 19:54:53 GMT -5
Ha ha. That might be fun, and it might make you feel good, but it wouldn't answer the koan. LOL. I came home this evening and asked my wife the trillion eyes koan. She didn't hesitate for a second with her answer, which was correct. Then, I told her about your question, and she realized why the koan's usage in this situation is so much funnier than usual. If you find the answer to the koan, you will also find the answer to your question.
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Post by frankshank on May 6, 2010 4:37:17 GMT -5
My initial thought was that I'd see myself (assuming we're all one). Then I thought no, if I was looking through a trillion eyes 'simultaneously' I'd see nothing. If you're going to hit me with your stick can you avoid my head please, it's damaged enough!
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Post by zendancer on May 6, 2010 8:21:51 GMT -5
Still too much thinking. LOL. Your body understands, but your head doesn't.
BTW, I don't even own a Zen stick because I got ex-communicated (I refused to follow the rules), from that tradition before being issued a stick, so you're safe in that regard. On Zen retreats, while everyone else suffered in silence, I often sneaked away and silently had fun. I was a total failure when it came to self-discipline! LOL. Who I am is sometimes very unruly.
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Reach for the straight jacket. It’s a good thing that this road is laced with love! 
