Is awareness independent of the body?

[zendancer]

Question: Yes, the third kind of intuition you mentioned is what we call "body knowing." It is a different and more powerful kind of intelligence than what is available through the intellect. All existential questions, including all koans, are answered through body knowing. Who you are, beyond thought, is incredibly intelligent. Who you are keeps track of a trillion chemical and electrical interactions in order to keep "your" body functioning normally. It keeps your temperature at 98.6 degrees; it regulates blood gas concentrations, it secrete hormones, it sees and hears, it digests food, it thinks, and so forth. Who you THINK you are is not doing this. Who you REALLY are is the unseen actor--what Suzanne Segal calls "the non-locatable do-er." Most people stay separated from THAT, psychologically, because they think all the time and never get in touch with the core reality. Meditative practices and abiding in Presence help us to discover what's always present. It is impossible to be separated from THAT, but thinking makes it appear that there is separation.

This last post of yours shows that you are on the verge of entering the unknown. Stay with it. Listen to your body. It is much smarter than your mind.

[klaus]

Hi question,

This "something" inside I can best describe as a sentient Presence.
During the years I've been seeking whenever I've had an experience of a spiritual nature or a question about a meaning some spiritual teacher had written or said, this Presence would answer it by means of bringing the answers into my daily living experience giving an ever deeper understanding.

I now realize that Presence is our true nature which is THAT.

Hope I've answered you question.

[question]

Thanks ZD, that makes a lot of sense.



Klaus: How does an answer manifest exactly? Can you give some specific examples? If I wanted to I could project all kinds of meaning into my daily life. In other words: how do you discern your own projection/interpretation from an actual "answer" of this Presence? Is it totally obvious or is it subtle, so that one has to be empty in order to see?

[zendancer]

Question: How do you "know" when you're hungry? How do you "know" when its time to go to the bathroom. The answers that Klaus is referring to are that obvious. When you become free of the mind's tyranny, you will know what to do without having to project or interpret anything. Your knowing will come through the body and not be obscured or distorted by thoughts.

There is also a big difference between projected (intellectual) meaning and direct meaning. If we ask, "What is the meaning of life?" the mind can come up with a million different answers. If we are not thinking, only one answer will appear.

I often hear people say, "Everything happens for a reason," or "Everything happens for the best." This is a very funny example of way too much thinking. LOL

[karen]

I don't know if this is a good example, but when starting out seeking I was very concerned about the issue of morality and what would happen if I gave up my moral precepts. I genuinely didn't know how to reconcile non-duality with leading a "good" (good towards others) life.

Then out of the blue whilst climbing a dirt hill, the answer came to me.

Then I wondered and pondered about what would make it be like that, and whilst climbing the same hill that answer popped up out of the blue.

It's like this stuff boils up from below. Mentation and verbalizing it is simply a formality. This is much different than holding a belief and memorizing it with the hopes to integrate it down to the conditioned level.

The first few times this happened with various questions and answers, I was quite proud of myself while giving lip service to "revelation" and simultaneously trying to remember the truth imparted (as if it was needed).

[zendancer]

Karen: That's a perfect example. People think that morality comes from the top down, but it doesn't. It comes from the bottom up. Fundamentalist preachers, who write articles for our local newspaper, think that without cognized moral precepts everyone would run amok. They don't realize that their rigid moral codes often do more harm than good. That was the primary teaching in Christ's parable of the good Samaritan. The Samaritan didn't have to think about what he should do in order to know what to do. The priests, however, responded through their rigid thought structures. Duality keeps us in the mind; non-duality in the heart.

[klaus]

May 6, 2010 16:08:50 GMT -5 question said:

Thanks ZD, that makes a lot of sense.



Klaus: How does an answer manifest exactly? Can you give some specific examples? If I wanted to I could project all kinds of meaning into my daily life. In other words: how do you discern your own projection/interpretation from an actual "answer" of this Presence? Is it totally obvious or is it subtle, so that one has to be empty in order to see?

Hi question,

One can project onto the "world" what the mind creates and have it appear as "truth."
However, this Presence brought into my daily experience "direct experience."

You ask me to give you some examples.

1. Kundalini- I had been intensely researching material on kundalini-shakti phenomenon and wanted to experence it and tried various techniques but none of them brought any results and I put it on the back burner until an other time.
A few days later while sitting quietly on the couch I felt the Presence and at the same time this tremendous rush of intense energy (seeing it as a lighting bolt) moving up my spine and exploding at the top of my head into a brilliant white light.
This intense energy filled every cell in my body and did not diminish for several days. In actuality I thought I was going to die because it felt like my body was unable to survive this tremendous force.

2. I had been reading about skandhas and again I felt the Presence
and IT showed me through "direct experience" the deconstruction of these skandhas from the mind, to the physical, cellular, molecular and atomic levels to pure energy and how attachment to these skandhas bring about the illusion of "I."

Both of these experiences were very viceral and had nothing to do with mind whatsoever.

[enigma]

A few days later while sitting quietly on the couch I felt the Presence and at the same time this "tremendous rush of intense energy (seeing it as a lighting bolt) moving up my spine and exploding at the top of my head into a brilliant white light.
This intense energy filled every cell in my body and did not diminish for several days. In actuality I thought I was going to die because it felt like my body was unable to survive this tremendous force."


Hi Klaus
From my perspective, this energy does NOT actually diminish. Rather, the mind/body adapts to this new level of energy. It seems to be a purification of sorts, which sometimes relates to the physical, but much more to the emotional. Odd thoughts and feelings may arise to be revisited and cleared, like the old, painful memories you recently mentioned.

I suggest that adapting to the new energy level potentially sets you up for another such release. If you are in good health, there's not too much danger, but it can be quite painful, and my experience is that emergency room doctors aren't really down with Kundalini so much. Hehe. (Having some high quality pain pills on hand might be a very good idea)

[Portto]

Awesome stuff!
Maybe this could be a good koan:

What can you perceive without the body?

[klaus]

Enigma,

This happened years ago, perhaps you're right you get used to the energy level or it's channeled to, or opens up psychic centers.
After the experience I was able to know what people wanted before they spoke and became aware of their past and future.

I consider these experiences with the Presence as no big deal since they are manifestations of THAT and just as much illusion as any manifestion, but a great show nonetheless.