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Post by karen on Feb 26, 2010 0:00:59 GMT -5
" The Bridge" is a movie about the Golden Gate Bridge and the suicidal people it attracts. Not only is it about this, but more disturbingly - it shows the jumpers jump. Real people - not re-enactments. It's not a snuff film, in any way IMO. It doesn't make life seem cheap. About half way through the movie, I was dreading seeing any more. I had a physical reaction to this movie. I often had lots of suicidal ideation where I'd go through planning it as a comfort mechanism - probably of seizing some kind of power in addition to the peace it seemed to promise. I had done this for decades. But not after watching " The Bridge". After seeing that movie I laid in bed and felt my body and my breath and felt scared $hitless that I ever tried to kill myself. How many of them regretted it right after the jump? The two I know of who survived knew they made a mistake immediately after jumping into space. After seeing that movie, I realized that before I was trying to kill something else - not me - but rather a model of me. That is not to say that I didn't often still reflexively have such images shooting through my head, but no longer did I plan for it. I knew I couldn't do it. At least from then till now. Watch it for free at Hulu here. (registration required to prevent casual and accidental viewing. |
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Post by frankshank on Feb 26, 2010 13:54:05 GMT -5
Hi Karen. You know the thing about personal suffering of any kind is that apparently it is an illusion full stop. There is no self to suffer. I watched a video on Youtube a few days ago and this enlightened guy jokingly said there was no point in going to Africa and telling them that there was no-one there. The more I think about the film 'The matrix' the more it freaks me out. What if us unconscious human beings are being farmed for whatever reason? I guess if we don't exist anyway it's OK but to the unenlightened it sure feels as though we do doesn't it? If I'm coming out with a load of rubbish just ignore me lol.
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Post by scholarpreneur on Feb 26, 2010 15:12:43 GMT -5
The more I think about the film 'The matrix' the more it freaks me out. What if us unconscious human beings are being farmed for whatever reason? I guess if we don't exist anyway it's OK but to the unenlightened it sure feels as though we do doesn't it? If I'm coming out with a load of rubbish just ignore me lol. Richard Rose sometimes alluded to beings that were using us for our energy. Don't have any quotes on me at the moment. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 26, 2010 17:24:41 GMT -5
Hi Karen. You know the thing about personal suffering of any kind is that apparently it is an illusion full stop. There is no self to suffer. I watched a video on Youtube a few days ago and this enlightened guy jokingly said there was no point in going to Africa and telling them that there was no-one there. The more I think about the film 'The matrix' the more it freaks me out. What if us unconscious human beings are being farmed for whatever reason? I guess if we don't exist anyway it's OK but to the unenlightened it sure feels as though we do doesn't it? If I'm coming out with a load of rubbish just ignore me lol. Frank: Pain is real; psychological suffering is optional. The "I am" is real; "Andy" is optional. Most of us mistake the sense of "I am" with a particular body rather than the totality of "what is." When a teacher says that we do not exist, he/she is only talking about our false identification with a body that appears to be separate from everything else. There is definitely something looking out of our body's eyes, but what it is is unimaginable. It can be directly experienced, but it cannot be imagined. The reason most of us never perceive the truth is that we spend all of our time imagining and talking to ourselves. Silence is the key. |
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Post by Portto on Feb 26, 2010 18:20:14 GMT -5
Very interesting, Zendancer!
However, is there a volitional entity choosing to suffer psychologically or not?
In my experience, we have choice regarding suffering as much as we have regarding pain. Suffering is a different kind of pain created by thoughts. We can control suffering as much as we control thoughts. But can we control thoughts?
Nevertheless, I agree: dis-identification from the body/mind can end suffering.
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Post by Portto on Feb 26, 2010 18:23:31 GMT -5
Nice post, Karen.
I always wondered why some people commit suicide.
It seems that we all know very well that suffering ends when thinking ends. It's only that some of us take an extreme approach to stop the thoughts...
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Post by zendancer on Feb 26, 2010 18:57:47 GMT -5
Porto: The choice versus no-choice issue frequently arises in discussions of non-duality. Some teachers prefer one approach, and other teachers use the opposite approach. Ramesh Balsekar and Tony Parsons use the no-choice teaching. Gangaji and most Zen Masters prefer the choice teaching. Tolle usually tells people that they have a choice until he is pressed, and then he will say that there is no choice.
I prefer the choice approach even though I know that the opposite approach is equally valid. Here's how it works in practice:
I tell people that they need to become silent, but I'm aware that whether they'll take that advice and do anything about it is a total mystery. Some will; some won't. I teach as if they have a choice, knowing that the truth is beyond either choice or no-choice. Tony Parsons tells people that there is no one even in attendence at his talks, so individual choice is completely out of the question. His teaching stops peoples's minds totally and is often very effective. We're both pointing to exactly the same thing in different ways. His teaching is probably most effective with people who have been searching for a long time. Most of the people I meet haven't been searching a long time, so I teach as if they have a choice.
To show people that personal volition is an illusion I ask them to watch how their bodies respond to particular thoughts. Dieting is the funniest thing to watch in this regard. A person will think, "Today I'm only going going to eat healthy low-fat low-carb food," and maybe they will. But the following day they'll have exactly the same intention and thought, but they won't. Why not? Because who they think they are isn't who they are. There is something else in charge of what's happening. Sometimes our thoughts coincide with reality and sometimes they don't. If thoughts are totally absent, however, then only the mysterious truth is perceived. Cheers.
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Post by Portto on Feb 26, 2010 19:15:43 GMT -5
Wonderful sincere reply!
Thank you, Zendancer.
So, the main point is to break identification with thoughts - but what triggers it is a mystery indeed.
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Post by karen on Feb 28, 2010 13:28:20 GMT -5
Nice post, Karen. I always wondered why some people commit suicide. It seems that we all know very well that suffering ends when thinking ends. It's only that some of us take an extreme approach to stop the thoughts... Thanks. When I made a credible attempt at 16, I had no idea that my thoughts were a big problem. I thought I was a problem, but not my thoughts themselves. Not only that, I was coasting along on a suicidal delusion (not often discussed) that there would be an after life where finally I would feel love and acceptance. Later, even when "knowing" that thoughts were a problem, I still contemplated it because that while it sounded great - stopping thoughts - I didn't seem to have any control over them. Of course, it was the thoughts telling me I had to stop thoughts to have some measure of peace. But I see more and more it's not the thoughts at all that cause problems, but believing in the thoughts as true that cause the problems. |
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Post by robert on Feb 28, 2010 17:26:14 GMT -5
in my very personal experience we didn't choose to be here and we most certainly don't get to choose when we are going to leave.
but in truth what difference does it make what i know. it can't apply to you. i am understanding fully that all of this is only applicable individually. so there are in truth 6 billion separate paths to awakening.
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Post by karen on Feb 28, 2010 18:38:14 GMT -5
Robert, you NEVER feel a sense of personal authorship?
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Post by robert on Feb 28, 2010 18:57:46 GMT -5
my self proclaimed ego was absolutely sure that it was in total control, and then life raised its head and showed me the truth. so yes i had a sense of personal authorship and then i learned that there is no control only the illusion of control just like the self.
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Post by karen on Feb 28, 2010 23:15:59 GMT -5
And you know this "in your bones"?
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 1, 2010 11:21:59 GMT -5
Hey Robert, Just a poke - if you don't mind: Who is it that you feel like isn't in control? That's not a rhetorical question. I'm actually asking what the feeling is for you.... in my very personal experience we didn't choose to be here and we most certainly don't get to choose when we are going to leave. but in truth what difference does it make what i know. it can't apply to you. i am understanding fully that all of this is only applicable individually. so there are in truth 6 billion separate paths to awakening. |
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