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Post by sharon on Oct 22, 2024 1:31:56 GMT -5
I find that well expressed. But maybe you could take us through the internal unfolding (chain of events)? So you see on the news that something has happened...kids have been killed, or people in Asheville have lost their homes....I don't want to paint graphic pictures. As you are hearing/reading the news, what happens internally? What are the internal responses? I told this story before. I saw a hawk eating what I initially thought was a bird and felt anger until I got closer and realized it was a rat and felt some sort of satisfaction. Weird huh? What did the Buddha tell the grieving mother? It's about all I can offer. Except to say that for me the only true enemy is in the mirror. The greatest sin is to fail to see that. Though I'm compelled to love him as well. Who taught you that you need an enemy? I would have a serious sit down chat with him if you can find him. |
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Post by sharon on Oct 22, 2024 3:01:36 GMT -5
Levels are an idea. The truth is beyond all ideas. Check out Morcheeba's song and video "Enjoy the Ride." Pick the YouTube version that looks purple/violet. The comments are interesting because many people claim that that video changed their lives. It's one of the most ND-oriented songs on the web. Pay attention to the words. "Stop chasing shadows, just enjoy the ride." "The day that you stop running is the day that you'll arrive." That particular video features a lot of national parks. So with one stroke of the pen you do away with Seth and Abraham-(Hicks) and Bashar and karma and reincarnation and Buddha (who said he remembered all his past lives) and Jesus (who said he came down from above), and Plato and Socrates, and I could go on and on and on and on, The Dalai Lama, all the Tulkus? That's a pretty bold statement. "Tulkus are Tibetan Buddhist lamas who reincarnate. They have achieved the ability to consciously determine to be reborn in order to continue their Bodhisattva vow. Tulkus leave instructions on how to find them in their new births". The Dalai Lama has said he's not sure he will come back, reincarnate. No Tibet, he thinks maybe The Dalai Lama is no longer necessary. You're calling all these, liars. What if you are misleading all the people who read you and listen to you? That's some heavy duty karma. But they don’t re incarnate from an individual perspective they do it as a representation of the Tibetan people and it’s culture. They don’t think oh next time I’ll come back as an Ethiopian Jew or an Aborigine. These cycles are happening within a people as a Collective. A Soul Group some might say. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 22, 2024 7:03:24 GMT -5
I told this story before. I saw a hawk eating what I initially thought was a bird and felt anger until I got closer and realized it was a rat and felt some sort of satisfaction. Weird huh? What did the Buddha tell the grieving mother? It's about all I can offer. Except to say that for me the only true enemy is in the mirror. The greatest sin is to fail to see that. Though I'm compelled to love him as well. Who taught you that you need an enemy? I would have a serious sit down chat with him if you can find him. I can understand what zazeniac is saying, I hated myself for at least 1/3 of my life. I probably only survived by coming to understand I am not my conditioning. I am something else. Conditioning is very stubborn, persistent, but I know 100% I am not my conditioning. And I wear my conditioning more and more lightly with the passage of time, it's not so bothersome. I eventually came to appreciate my ~nastiness~, as, without it, I wouldn't have been driven to discover that which isn't driven. At times there is an actual perceptive feeling of heaviness being lifted, off, freedom. In my 20s I couldn't see a 'future', I couldn't see myself continuing to live in the condition(ing) I was 'in'. ...So in the beginning my 'aim' was to end my suffering, I didn't realize that until later, lots later. Then it took me a while to formulate a new aim, a real aim. So I understand this inability to formulate a new aim, a real aim, a permanent aim. Nobody ever taught me I needed an enemy, I recognized I was the enemy, until I learned about the false self/conditioning, and true self-essence. I learned about being aware of what we say I to, to recognize it, and not-say-I to the conditioning. So I understand, intimately, that self is imaginary. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 22, 2024 8:19:15 GMT -5
Who taught you that you need an enemy? I would have a serious sit down chat with him if you can find him. I can understand what zazeniac is saying, I hated myself for at least 1/3 of my life. I probably only survived by coming to understand I am not my conditioning. I am something else. Conditioning is very stubborn, persistent, but I know 100% I am not my conditioning. And I wear my conditioning more and more lightly with the passage of time, it's not so bothersome. I eventually came to appreciate my ~nastiness~, as, without it, I wouldn't have been driven to discover that which isn't driven. At times there is an actual perceptive feeling of heaviness being lifted, off, freedom. In my 20s I couldn't see a 'future', I couldn't see myself continuing to live in the condition(ing) I was 'in'. ...So in the beginning my 'aim' was to end my suffering, I didn't realize that until later, lots later. Then it took me a while to formulate a new aim, a real aim. So I understand this inability to formulate a new aim, a real aim, a permanent aim. Nobody ever taught me I needed an enemy, I recognized I was the enemy, until I learned about the false self/conditioning, and true self-essence. I learned about being aware of what we say I to, to recognize it, and not-say-I to the conditioning. So I understand, intimately, that self is imaginary. I don't hate anyone. Certainly not myself. It's not about hate. It's more about honesty. Most of us put our conception of us, the ego, on a pedestal. Act as if the universe is at our beck and call. I see this as the enemy because it's a self-defeating cycle. Kind of what you say at the end of your comment. I used to think less of myself than others. There was a time when I thought other folks had their shit together, but I didn't. As I studied myself (meditation), it became obvious to me that we're all pretty much in the same boat, the ego, that is. It's just some folks pretend better than others. I'm basically working on what Sharon kind of suggested, finding this "I" that thinks it has an enemy. Hard to do. I mean I can find my middle finger readily, especially when Laffy makes one of his bizarrely opaque comments, but for the life of me I can't find what part of that sensation constitutes an "I," a separate entity. To me it's a deduction. But I keep searching. 😁 |
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Post by andrew on Oct 22, 2024 8:49:59 GMT -5
yep agree, ultimately it has to be addressed within me (or within you in your case...i.e within each of us). I see the 'need' for judgement as the core of the problem. Not necessarily judgement itself, it's more the 'need' to judge, which for most folks is basically a compulsion, a compulsion they unconsciously live with most of the day. And this 'need' is an energy movement rooted in the inner experience of trauma (which begins from day one of our lives, maybe even in the womb). Yes, the 'need' for judgement ties with false beliefs, but I see false beliefs and energy movements as 'chicken and egg'...I can't readily say which comes first. I'd say it's this 'need', and this energy movement, that sustains/perpetuates what you call the 'conditioned self'. The paradox is that our need for judgement creates conditions that also create more trauma. So humans keep doubling down on their trauma, until they are able to break free from the cycle, and address it at a different (*apparent) level of consciousness Yes, nice. I've read somewhat the story of Morihei Ueshiba, the man who devised Aikido. Aikido (despite Steven Seagal) was designed to be used only for defense. You control the opponent, you don't try to hurt the opponent. If I remember correctly, the beginning was a hands only defense against a sword attack. Ueshiba was an exceptionally spiritually discerning man, he understood the invisible world, experienced it. ...on an expedition to Mongolia in 1924, where they were captured by Chinese troops and returned to Japan. The following year, he had a profound spiritual experience, stating that, "a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body, and changed my body into a golden one." After this experience, his martial arts technique became gentler, with a greater emphasis on the control of ki. Yes, nice. There was a time when I considered training in Aikido, it seemed to be the martial art that was most aligned with my general 'way'. Never did it, though I suspect it would have been good for me at the time. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 22, 2024 8:57:45 GMT -5
I find that well expressed. But maybe you could take us through the internal unfolding (chain of events)? So you see on the news that something has happened...kids have been killed, or people in Asheville have lost their homes....I don't want to paint graphic pictures. As you are hearing/reading the news, what happens internally? What are the internal responses? I told this story before. I saw a hawk eating what I initially thought was a bird and felt anger until I got closer and realized it was a rat and felt some sort of satisfaction. Weird huh? What did the Buddha tell the grieving mother? It's about all I can offer. Except to say that for me the only true enemy is in the mirror. The greatest sin is to fail to see that. Though I'm compelled to love him as well. What did the Buddha say, I don't know? Yeah, so the hawk/rat situation reminds me of Byron Katie story, about how she was very angry with someone that had left a public toilet in a very wet state, but then she used the flush herself, and the water went everywhere. Subtle shifts in perspective are everything, and that's how it often is for me if I catch a news item and experience an internal reaction to it. Those subtle shifts point attention in different 'directions'...I can go higher, or deeper, I can 'be' with it, or sometimes I just side-step it. Rarely do I just blindly follow the reaction, though there MAY be a time for that too, if I was in a very unusual or threatening situation. For me, there's no set rule or procedure, it seems to be very situational. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 22, 2024 9:09:41 GMT -5
I can understand what zazeniac is saying, I hated myself for at least 1/3 of my life. I probably only survived by coming to understand I am not my conditioning. I am something else. Conditioning is very stubborn, persistent, but I know 100% I am not my conditioning. And I wear my conditioning more and more lightly with the passage of time, it's not so bothersome. I eventually came to appreciate my ~nastiness~, as, without it, I wouldn't have been driven to discover that which isn't driven. At times there is an actual perceptive feeling of heaviness being lifted, off, freedom. In my 20s I couldn't see a 'future', I couldn't see myself continuing to live in the condition(ing) I was 'in'. ...So in the beginning my 'aim' was to end my suffering, I didn't realize that until later, lots later. Then it took me a while to formulate a new aim, a real aim. So I understand this inability to formulate a new aim, a real aim, a permanent aim. Nobody ever taught me I needed an enemy, I recognized I was the enemy, until I learned about the false self/conditioning, and true self-essence. I learned about being aware of what we say I to, to recognize it, and not-say-I to the conditioning. So I understand, intimately, that self is imaginary. I don't hate anyone. Certainly not myself. It's not about hate. It's more about honesty. Most of us put our conception of us, the ego, on a pedestal. Act as if the universe is at our beck and call. I see this as the enemy because it's a self-defeating cycle. Kind of what you say at the end of your comment. I used to think less of myself than others. There was a time when I thought other folks had their shit together, but I didn't. As I studied myself (meditation), it became obvious to me that we're all pretty much in the same boat, the ego, that is. It's just some folks pretend better than others. I'm basically working on what Sharon kind of suggested, finding this "I" that thinks it has an enemy. Hard to do. I mean I can find my middle finger readily, especially when Laffy makes one of his bizarrely opaque comments, but for the life of me I can't find what part of that sensation constitutes an "I," a separate entity. To me it's a deduction. But I keep searching. 😁 I value honesty highly as an approach, but do you find that there are appropriate times to lie to some extent? Actually, a better way of asking that is....do you find there are appropriate times to compromise the depth/intensity of your spiritual 'presence'? There are occasions when I will if I feel that 'presence' is too intimidating for someone that I'm about to spend time with. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 22, 2024 15:21:43 GMT -5
I told this story before. I saw a hawk eating what I initially thought was a bird and felt anger until I got closer and realized it was a rat and felt some sort of satisfaction. Weird huh? What did the Buddha tell the grieving mother? It's about all I can offer. Except to say that for me the only true enemy is in the mirror. The greatest sin is to fail to see that. Though I'm compelled to love him as well. What did the Buddha say, I don't know? Yeah, so the hawk/rat situation reminds me of Byron Katie story, about how she was very angry with someone that had left a public toilet in a very wet state, but then she used the flush herself, and the water went everywhere. Subtle shifts in perspective are everything, and that's how it often is for me if I catch a news item and experience an internal reaction to it. Those subtle shifts point attention in different 'directions'...I can go higher, or deeper, I can 'be' with it, or sometimes I just side-step it. Rarely do I just blindly follow the reaction, though there MAY be a time for that too, if I was in a very unusual or threatening situation. For me, there's no set rule or procedure, it seems to be very situational. The Buddha told the woman who was inconsolable about the death of her son to go to her village and collect a bowl of rice from every household that had not known death. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 22, 2024 15:30:28 GMT -5
I don't hate anyone. Certainly not myself. It's not about hate. It's more about honesty. Most of us put our conception of us, the ego, on a pedestal. Act as if the universe is at our beck and call. I see this as the enemy because it's a self-defeating cycle. Kind of what you say at the end of your comment. I used to think less of myself than others. There was a time when I thought other folks had their shit together, but I didn't. As I studied myself (meditation), it became obvious to me that we're all pretty much in the same boat, the ego, that is. It's just some folks pretend better than others. I'm basically working on what Sharon kind of suggested, finding this "I" that thinks it has an enemy. Hard to do. I mean I can find my middle finger readily, especially when Laffy makes one of his bizarrely opaque comments, but for the life of me I can't find what part of that sensation constitutes an "I," a separate entity. To me it's a deduction. But I keep searching. 😁 I value honesty highly as an approach, but do you find that there are appropriate times to lie to some extent? Actually, a better way of asking that is....do you find there are appropriate times to compromise the depth/intensity of your spiritual 'presence'? There are occasions when I will if I feel that 'presence' is too intimidating for someone that I'm about to spend time with. I'm talking about being honest with yourself. For example some times we tell ourselves we're doing certain things for another's own good when we're not. I'd offer examples in my life only they're too embarrassing. Of course lying to the Gestapo about harboring Jewish families is acceptable. |
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Post by sharon on Oct 22, 2024 15:50:35 GMT -5
What did the Buddha say, I don't know? Yeah, so the hawk/rat situation reminds me of Byron Katie story, about how she was very angry with someone that had left a public toilet in a very wet state, but then she used the flush herself, and the water went everywhere. Subtle shifts in perspective are everything, and that's how it often is for me if I catch a news item and experience an internal reaction to it. Those subtle shifts point attention in different 'directions'...I can go higher, or deeper, I can 'be' with it, or sometimes I just side-step it. Rarely do I just blindly follow the reaction, though there MAY be a time for that too, if I was in a very unusual or threatening situation. For me, there's no set rule or procedure, it seems to be very situational. The Buddha told the woman who was inconsolable about the death of her son to go to her village and collect a bowl of rice from every household that had not known death. And she came back empty handed? |
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Post by sharon on Oct 22, 2024 15:55:51 GMT -5
I don't hate anyone. Certainly not myself. It's not about hate. It's more about honesty. Most of us put our conception of us, the ego, on a pedestal. Act as if the universe is at our beck and call. I see this as the enemy because it's a self-defeating cycle. Kind of what you say at the end of your comment. I used to think less of myself than others. There was a time when I thought other folks had their shit together, but I didn't. As I studied myself (meditation), it became obvious to me that we're all pretty much in the same boat, the ego, that is. It's just some folks pretend better than others. I'm basically working on what Sharon kind of suggested, finding this "I" that thinks it has an enemy. Hard to do. I mean I can find my middle finger readily, especially when Laffy makes one of his bizarrely opaque comments, but for the life of me I can't find what part of that sensation constitutes an "I," a separate entity. To me it's a deduction. But I keep searching. 😁 I value honesty highly as an approach, but do you find that there are appropriate times to lie to some extent? Actually, a better way of asking that is....do you find there are appropriate times to compromise the depth/intensity of your spiritual 'presence'? There are occasions when I will if I feel that 'presence' is too intimidating for someone that I'm about to spend time with. If the mind really is illuminated then it’s perfectly safe to live in the Darkness. In fact it becomes essential and healthier all round. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 22, 2024 18:50:39 GMT -5
I value honesty highly as an approach, but do you find that there are appropriate times to lie to some extent? Actually, a better way of asking that is....do you find there are appropriate times to compromise the depth/intensity of your spiritual 'presence'? There are occasions when I will if I feel that 'presence' is too intimidating for someone that I'm about to spend time with. I'm talking about being honest with yourself. For example some times we tell ourselves we're doing certain things for another's own good when we're not. I'd offer examples in my life only they're too embarrassing. Of course lying to the Gestapo about harboring Jewish families is acceptable. How do you know when you are being honest with yourself? What is the internal clue that tells you? The Gestapo example is a good one I reckon, in that it shows that being honest with yourself isn't necessarily about being 'externally' honest. In lying to the Gestapo, you would still be being honest with yourself about your values. Perhaps one can be ambiguous with the truth, or openly lie, and yet still be internally honest. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 22, 2024 18:54:45 GMT -5
I value honesty highly as an approach, but do you find that there are appropriate times to lie to some extent? Actually, a better way of asking that is....do you find there are appropriate times to compromise the depth/intensity of your spiritual 'presence'? There are occasions when I will if I feel that 'presence' is too intimidating for someone that I'm about to spend time with. If the mind really is illuminated then it’s perfectly safe to live in the Darkness. In fact it becomes essential and healthier all round. If I'm interpreting you right, I partially agree, at least in my experience. Sometimes I find there's a time to be fully in the 'light'. Other times, it's more appropriate to be in the 'darkness'. It all depends on situation and context. I agree that being in the darkness can be the healthier path, if it's the path of Love. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 22, 2024 22:10:20 GMT -5
The Buddha told the woman who was inconsolable about the death of her son to go to her village and collect a bowl of rice from every household that had not known death. And she came back empty handed? Correct. |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 22, 2024 23:11:28 GMT -5
The Buddha told the woman who was inconsolable about the death of her son to go to her village and collect a bowl of rice from every household that had not known death. And she came back empty handed? - ... In her distress, Kisa Gotami brought the body of her son to the Buddha and asked him for a medicine that would bring back his life. The Buddha answered: "I shall cure him if you can bring me some white mustard seeds from a house where no one has died". Carrying her dead son, she went from door to door, asking at each house. At each house the reply was always that someone had died there. At last the truth struck her, "No house is free from death". She laid the body of her child in the wood and returned to the Buddha, who comforted her and preached to her the truth. She was awakened ...
I dislike this story. |
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