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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 8:33:43 GMT -5
Any human who discovers THIS will know, without any doubt, that the idea of separateness, levels, or thingness is an idea, only. That can be known 100% but not via the intellect. The intellect can only function by dividing reality into imaginary parts. A particular realization is required, and that realization does not occur via the intellect. Does the unmanifest, exist? (Any-no-thing which you cannot perceive, at least at present. Example. Bohm says that everything is One Undivided Whole, but there is the Explicate world, our manifest universe, and the Implicate world, the unmanifest, out of which the Explicate world unfolds. IOW, the Implicate "contains" the Explicated world, which is folded into the Implicate world. Example, just take a tablecloth. Spread it out, it's the Explicate world. Fold it seven times, it's still the same tablecloth, but folded). The Implicate world and the Explicate world are not divided, that's Bohm's whole point. Yin and yang are not divided, they are the swirly mix of the Tao. I started the Macrocosm Microcosm thread with a quote by Gurdjieff saying All is One, nine years ago. I have never said anything exists outside of All That Is. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I know you understand about the unity of the laws governing the universe, but this understanding is speculative--or rather is theoretical. It is not enough to understand with the mind, it is necessary to feel with your being the absolute truth and immutability of this fact; only then you will be able, consciously and with conviction, to say 'I know'. ....We started with man, and where is he? But great, and all-embracing is the law of unity. Everything in the universe is one, the difference is only one of scale; in the infinity small we shall find the same laws as in the infinitely great. As above, so below. ...Again I repeat, all in the world is one; and since reason is also one, human reason forms a powerful instrument for investigation. ... Gurdjieff, from the OP (link, above, thread) I sometimes like to conceive of 'God' as being 'two'....the infinite Void of Love out of which all arises, and then the 'I Am'...the fundamental 'Presence' which contains all form/expression. I guess we could make that a Holy Trinity, and talk about the creative movement..a ceaseless becoming. But there's lots of ways to talk about it, for me, it boils down to preferences in the moment, and what I consider useful. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 8:42:27 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. It's a tricky one. When we talk about 'levels' we are talking about content and form, and I agree that ZD can't say for sure that there are no 'levels' of experience and perception (multi-dimensionality). But in terms of spiritual focus, and non-dual realization, ZD would correctly say that 'levels' are irrelevant...what is 'realized' is beyond levels. These 'levels' aren't even something that can be ATA'd....there's no smell, or taste, or touch. My personal experience is that there are 'levels' of experience/perception. I experience different levels of clarity, different levels of peace and love. And each of these levels I find to be compelling in their own ways. So I believe that 'levels' are a thing. But I can also see that from a non-dual 'level' of experience/perception (which I do find to be compelling), that there are no levels. So my spirituality is messy, except when it's not. Maybe that will change one day, I don't know. Good quote. Sure, relatively and dualistically we can talk about levels or any other kinds of "things" that we want to imagine, but thingness is an imaginary idea even though useful. Reality, or THIS, is the underlying and indivisible ground of being. After discovering that level of unity, one literally feels one with whatever is happening because what one IS IS what's happening. A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You see, imaginary self is not the best word to describe the conditioning that does exist. All these atrocities were committed by an imaginary self. The imaginary self, is not imaginary.
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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 8:56:38 GMT -5
Sure, relatively and dualistically we can talk about levels or any other kinds of "things" that we want to imagine, but thingness is an imaginary idea even though useful. Reality, or THIS, is the underlying and indivisible ground of being. After discovering that level of unity, one literally feels one with whatever is happening because what one IS IS what's happening. A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” Maybe the question is, what does ZD mean when he says he 'literally feels at one with whatever is happening'? I have no reason to disbelieve him, but perhaps it's not clear exactly what he means by that, within the context of hearing/seeing the news of a world event such as you mentioned. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 9:02:43 GMT -5
A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” Maybe the question is, what does ZD mean when he says he 'literally feels at one with whatever is happening'? I have no reason to disbelieve him, but perhaps it's not clear exactly what he means by that, within the context of hearing/seeing the news of a world event such as you mentioned. Exactly, specificity is called for. ........About a week ago we had a mouse. She knew we had no choice, but my daughter cried at the death of the mouse, caught in the trap. ...She is an empath. She literally feels the pain of others, every day. She does not watch news. She doesn't like it that I keep up with current political news (as she has to pass by the TV). |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 21, 2024 9:15:27 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. Sure, relatively and dualistically we can talk about levels or any other kinds of "things" that we want to imagine, but thingness is an imaginary idea even though useful. Reality, or THIS, is the underlying and indivisible ground of being. After discovering that level of unity, one literally feels one with whatever is happening because what one IS IS what's happening. A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” It is hubris to think that we are incapable of becoming monsters. In fact, it is that very labeling, that dehumanizing tendency that can lead to it. It is this thinking of the "other," "not me" that begins the journey down that path, fomenting hatred, anger and fear. It is why Jesus says "love your enemies." Hatred seems to be in season. What better antidote than we are all THIS? |
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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 9:29:30 GMT -5
Maybe the question is, what does ZD mean when he says he 'literally feels at one with whatever is happening'? I have no reason to disbelieve him, but perhaps it's not clear exactly what he means by that, within the context of hearing/seeing the news of a world event such as you mentioned. Exactly, specificity is called for. ........About a week ago we had a rat. She knew we had no choice, but my daughter cried at the death of the rat, caught in the trap. ...She is an empath. She literally feels the pain of others, every day. She does not watch news. She doesn't like it that I keep up with current political news (as she has to pass by the TV). If I lived with you, I'd also have to ask you to turn the news off please haha. I relate to your daughter's sensitivity. I used to think spirituality would sort of 'numb' that sensitivity, but the reverse happened, I became more sensitive. But over time, I also developed internal approaches to handle that, and many of these approaches are now 'hardwired' into my daily functioning. As part of that, perhaps the most important and powerful question for me is....'what would Love do?'. I find it sort of 'harnesses' the sensitivity. It gives the sensitivity a level of commitment and strength. It means that while I don't diminish or ignore the suffering of others, I am compelled to see it from a higher perspective. I can be deeply compassionate, but tears don't come VERY often these days. But leaving pets after we've looked after them for a couple of weeks, can bring up emotional pain still. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 9:32:35 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” It is hubris to think that we are incapable of becoming monsters. In fact, it is that very labeling, that dehumanizing tendency that can lead to it. It is this thinking of the "other," "not me" that begins the journey down that path, fomenting hatred, anger and fear. It is why Jesus says "love your enemies." Hatred seems to be in season. What better antidote than we are all THIS? I find that well expressed. But maybe you could take us through the internal unfolding (chain of events)? So you see on the news that something has happened...kids have been killed, or people in Asheville have lost their homes....I don't want to paint graphic pictures. As you are hearing/reading the news, what happens internally? What are the internal responses? |
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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 9:48:11 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You see, imaginary self is not the best word to describe the conditioning that does exist. All these atrocities were committed by an imaginary self. The imaginary self, is not imaginary. Just saw this (missed it before). The thought that occurs to me is that these atrocities happen at a particular 'plane' of existence or 'plane' of experience. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as more or less real than any other plane, though I consider it reasonable to say that this particular 'plane' is rooted in false beliefs about the nature of self, existence and God. With that said, this 'falsity' is still a valid 'plane'. As I've said, I believe existence is multidimensional, and I've sometimes been able to clearly see why a higher dimensional 'being' would want to experience a lower dimensional plane of existence/experience. The built in falsity within this worldly plane is an incredible thing in its own way. We get to experience duality in a very intense and raw way, which can be absolute hell, but it can also be beautiful in a way that is also unique to this plane. Edit....sorry, bad quoting. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 9:55:20 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. A year ago Hamas terrorists broke their Gaza fences and at a music festival raped and killed women and cut the heads off men and babies and took over 200 captive, probably 20-30 Israeli citizens still held captive. Please don't tell me you feel at one with those terrorists and their acts. From the link: Forensic pathologists, including Israeli staffers as well as volunteers from abroad, were visibly disturbed by the evidence before them. Despite every effort to remain objective and detached—as called for by the profession—many broke down into tears throughout the day. The single mercy, Kugel said—if there is one to be found—is that the burned victims likely died from carbon monoxide and soot inhalation before the fire killed them. Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads. According to Bublil, “This was not combat, or a military conflict, or a state conflict, or a political conflict. [Hamas] enjoyed the murders so much that they did everything they could do to celebrate the killing. They celebrated burning houses with civilians inside who didn’t do anything to them. They enjoyed grabbing an 18-year-old girl from a party, a festival, dragging her to a car, and taking her to Gaza. And who knows what happened [to her] in between. They enjoyed and celebrated the death. … These are monsters. They’re not human… They weren’t merciful to anyone. No one who was alive and encountered them remained alive. No one.” It is hubris to think that we are incapable of becoming monsters. In fact, it is that very labeling, that dehumanizing tendency that can lead to it. It is this thinking of the "other," "not me" that begins the journey down that path, fomenting hatred, anger and fear. It is why Jesus says "love your enemies." Hatred seems to be in season. What better antidote than we are all THIS? Very good point. Except, the Pharisees divided the world into us and them. And they killed Jesus for it. It is quite ironic that Caiaphas, upon pronouncing judgement on Jesus, said, it is expedient that one man should die in order to save Israel. It's called projection, we always see out there in the world, attributes we ourselves possess. We see the enemy 'out there'. But yes, we only see it out there because we are capable of being monsters, it's in us. "Can a Leopard change his spots?" When we see the yes, and the no, in ourselves, then we can change, have changed. ...But we usually try to destroy the enemy out there in the world. Gandhi knew that never works. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 21, 2024 10:15:37 GMT -5
It is hubris to think that we are incapable of becoming monsters. In fact, it is that very labeling, that dehumanizing tendency that can lead to it. It is this thinking of the "other," "not me" that begins the journey down that path, fomenting hatred, anger and fear. It is why Jesus says "love your enemies." Hatred seems to be in season. What better antidote than we are all THIS? Very good point. Except, the Pharisees divided the world into us and them. And they killed Jesus for it. It is quite ironic that Caiaphas, upon pronouncing judgement on Jesus, said, it is expedient that one man should die in order to save Israel. It's called projection, we always see out there in the world, attributes we ourselves possess. We see the enemy 'out there'. But yes, we only see it out there because we are capable of being monsters, it's in us. "Can a Leopard change his spots?" When we see the yes, and the no, in ourselves, then we can change, have changed. ...But we usually try to destroy the enemy out there in the world. Gandhi knew that never works. yep agree, ultimately it has to be addressed within me (or within you in your case...i.e within each of us). I see the 'need' for judgement as the core of the problem. Not necessarily judgement itself, it's more the 'need' to judge, which for most folks is basically a compulsion, a compulsion they unconsciously live with most of the day. And this 'need' is an energy movement rooted in the inner experience of trauma (which begins from day one of our lives, maybe even in the womb). Yes, the 'need' for judgement ties with false beliefs, but I see false beliefs and energy movements as 'chicken and egg'...I can't readily say which comes first. I'd say it's this 'need', and this energy movement, that sustains/perpetuates what you call the 'conditioned self'. The paradox is that our need for judgement creates conditions that also create more trauma. So humans keep doubling down on their trauma, until they are able to break free from the cycle, and address it at a different (*apparent) level of consciousness |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 10:22:32 GMT -5
Alert for the horror, described below, from the link. Just saw this (missed it before). The thought that occurs to me is that these atrocities happen at a particular 'plane' of existence or 'plane' of experience. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as more or less real than any other plane, though I consider it reasonable to say that this particular 'plane' is rooted in false beliefs about the nature of self, existence and God. With that said, this 'falsity' is still a valid 'plane'. As I've said, I believe existence is multidimensional, and I've sometimes been able to clearly see why a higher dimensional 'being' would want to experience a lower dimensional plane of existence/experience. The built in falsity within this worldly plane is an incredible thing in its own way. We get to experience duality in a very intense and raw way, which can be absolute hell, but it can also be beautiful in a way that is also unique to this plane. Edit....sorry, bad quoting. Well, I sometimes come back and edit or add things. I decided I need an ALERT, so the reader wouldn't be surprised reading something he or she didn't want to read. .... I like definitions. Imaginary doesn't necessarily mean doesn't exist. The rope exists, the snake doesn't exist. War means we think we have the right to impose our will, on others. We don't. War sometimes means we have to resist others imposing their will, on us. Going into Vietnam was a stupid war. Going into Iraq was a stupid war (the law of unintended consequences). Daddy Bush was right, Son Bush was wrong. Going into Afghanistan was a stupid war. Getting Osama Ben Ladin was justified, but keeping it small through Intelligence, and Special Forces, was the right way to do it. Knowing what's right is not always easy. I'd say living on this plane is necessary, as the only real school is the school of hard knocks, experience. I just like to try to keep it nuts and bolts real. I can just smell the nonsense sometimes, a not-nuts and bolts answer. |
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Post by zendancer on Oct 21, 2024 10:24:53 GMT -5
Any human who discovers THIS will know, without any doubt, that the idea of separateness, levels, or thingness is an idea, only. That can be known 100% but not via the intellect. The intellect can only function by dividing reality into imaginary parts. A particular realization is required, and that realization does not occur via the intellect. Does the unmanifest, exist? (Any-no-thing which you cannot perceive, at least at present. Example. Bohm says that everything is One Undivided Whole, but there is the Explicate world, our manifest universe, and the Implicate world, the unmanifest, out of which the Explicate world unfolds. IOW, the Implicate "contains" the Explicated world, which is folded into the Implicate world. Example, just take a tablecloth. Spread it out, it's the Explicate world. Fold it seven times, it's still the same tablecloth, but folded). The Implicate world and the Explicate world are not divided, that's Bohm's whole point. Yin and yang are not divided, they are the swirly mix of the Tao. I started the Macrocosm Microcosm thread with a quote by Gurdjieff saying All is One, nine years ago. I have never said anything exists outside of All That Is. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I know you understand about the unity of the laws governing the universe, but this understanding is speculative--or rather is theoretical. It is not enough to understand with the mind, it is necessary to feel with your being the absolute truth and immutability of this fact; only then you will be able, consciously and with conviction, to say 'I know'. ....We started with man, and where is he? But great, and all-embracing is the law of unity. Everything in the universe is one, the difference is only one of scale; in the infinity small we shall find the same laws as in the infinitely great. As above, so below. ...Again I repeat, all in the world is one; and since reason is also one, human reason forms a powerful instrument for investigation. ... Gurdjieff, from the OP (link, above, thread) Does anything (any thing) exist independently of the All? No. Again, "to exist" means "to come forth from" that which is All/Source/THIS. Anything (any thing) we distinguish is an abstraction--a creation/projection of the intellect. It helps to look for boundaries because that's what will often expose the conventional illusion. Is an acorn a tree? Is a sprouted acorn a tree? A sapling? A big sapling? We use distinctions and the words that represent those distinctions to divide what is a unified transforming whole into parts for the purpose of communication. There is no point at which an acorn becomes a tree except by freeze-framing the action and ignoring the transformative process that IS an "acorn" "sapling" "tree" "dead tree" "rotted tree" etc. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 10:34:49 GMT -5
Very good point. Except, the Pharisees divided the world into us and them. And they killed Jesus for it. It is quite ironic that Caiaphas, upon pronouncing judgement on Jesus, said, it is expedient that one man should die in order to save Israel. It's called projection, we always see out there in the world, attributes we ourselves possess. We see the enemy 'out there'. But yes, we only see it out there because we are capable of being monsters, it's in us. "Can a Leopard change his spots?" When we see the yes, and the no, in ourselves, then we can change, have changed. ...But we usually try to destroy the enemy out there in the world. Gandhi knew that never works. yep agree, ultimately it has to be addressed within me (or within you in your case...i.e within each of us). I see the 'need' for judgement as the core of the problem. Not necessarily judgement itself, it's more the 'need' to judge, which for most folks is basically a compulsion, a compulsion they unconsciously live with most of the day. And this 'need' is an energy movement rooted in the inner experience of trauma (which begins from day one of our lives, maybe even in the womb). Yes, the 'need' for judgement ties with false beliefs, but I see false beliefs and energy movements as 'chicken and egg'...I can't readily say which comes first. I'd say it's this 'need', and this energy movement, that sustains/perpetuates what you call the 'conditioned self'. The paradox is that our need for judgement creates conditions that also create more trauma. So humans keep doubling down on their trauma, until they are able to break free from the cycle, and address it at a different (*apparent) level of consciousness Yes, nice. I've read somewhat the story of Morihei Ueshiba, the man who devised Aikido. Aikido (despite Steven Seagal) was designed to be used only for defense. You control the opponent, you don't try to hurt the opponent. If I remember correctly, the beginning was a hands only defense against a sword attack. Ueshiba was an exceptionally spiritually discerning man, he understood the invisible world, experienced it. ...on an expedition to Mongolia in 1924, where they were captured by Chinese troops and returned to Japan. The following year, he had a profound spiritual experience, stating that, "a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body, and changed my body into a golden one." After this experience, his martial arts technique became gentler, with a greater emphasis on the control of ki. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2024 10:47:29 GMT -5
Does the unmanifest, exist? (Any-no-thing which you cannot perceive, at least at present. Example. Bohm says that everything is One Undivided Whole, but there is the Explicate world, our manifest universe, and the Implicate world, the unmanifest, out of which the Explicate world unfolds. IOW, the Implicate "contains" the Explicated world, which is folded into the Implicate world. Example, just take a tablecloth. Spread it out, it's the Explicate world. Fold it seven times, it's still the same tablecloth, but folded). The Implicate world and the Explicate world are not divided, that's Bohm's whole point. Yin and yang are not divided, they are the swirly mix of the Tao. I started the Macrocosm Microcosm thread with a quote by Gurdjieff saying All is One, nine years ago. I have never said anything exists outside of All That Is. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I know you understand about the unity of the laws governing the universe, but this understanding is speculative--or rather is theoretical. It is not enough to understand with the mind, it is necessary to feel with your being the absolute truth and immutability of this fact; only then you will be able, consciously and with conviction, to say 'I know'. ....We started with man, and where is he? But great, and all-embracing is the law of unity. Everything in the universe is one, the difference is only one of scale; in the infinity small we shall find the same laws as in the infinitely great. As above, so below. ...Again I repeat, all in the world is one; and since reason is also one, human reason forms a powerful instrument for investigation. ... Gurdjieff, from the OP (link, above, thread) Does anything (any thing) exist independently of the All? No. Again, "to exist" means "to come forth from" that which is All/Source/THIS. Anything (any thing) we distinguish is an abstraction--a creation/projection of the intellect. It helps to look for boundaries because that's what will often expose the conventional illusion. Is an acorn a tree? Is a sprouted acorn a tree? A sapling? A big sapling? We use distinctions and the words that represent those distinctions to divide what is a unified transforming whole into parts for the purpose of communication. There is no point at which an acorn becomes a tree except by freeze-framing the action and ignoring the transformative process that IS an "acorn" "sapling" "tree" "dead tree" "rotted tree" etc. The vast majority of acorns never become oak trees. Some are eaten by squirrels, some by pigs. This is the parable of the Sower. An acorn is an oak tree, in potential. ...I sorted through the question does any thing separately exist over 50 years ago, probably reading Alan Watts. I saw no, nothing exits independently. But that's the real beginning of the search, not the end. ....Some day you will understand this. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 21, 2024 13:15:29 GMT -5
It is hubris to think that we are incapable of becoming monsters. In fact, it is that very labeling, that dehumanizing tendency that can lead to it. It is this thinking of the "other," "not me" that begins the journey down that path, fomenting hatred, anger and fear. It is why Jesus says "love your enemies." Hatred seems to be in season. What better antidote than we are all THIS? I find that well expressed. But maybe you could take us through the internal unfolding (chain of events)? So you see on the news that something has happened...kids have been killed, or people in Asheville have lost their homes....I don't want to paint graphic pictures. As you are hearing/reading the news, what happens internally? What are the internal responses? I told this story before. I saw a hawk eating what I initially thought was a bird and felt anger until I got closer and realized it was a rat and felt some sort of satisfaction. Weird huh? What did the Buddha tell the grieving mother? It's about all I can offer. Except to say that for me the only true enemy is in the mirror. The greatest sin is to fail to see that. Though I'm compelled to love him as well. |
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