|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 23, 2024 23:15:26 GMT -5
It is Buddhism 101.That's why your accounts are Dunning Kruger. Seems to me, from the outside looking in, that this is why Zen is so different from other Buddhist variants. "Beginner's mind", for example, turns Dunning Kruger inside out. Zen doesn't seem to me to negate or deny "Dunning Kruger", per se, but offers a radically shifted perspective on it. Same with what some might deride as "Neo-Advaita". I'd prefer, "direct path nonduality". It's not about gain or improvement. It's about subtraction. Traditional Advaita Vedanta has the same flavor: neti-neti. It's buried in Christianity as well. And this isn't a critique of scholarship, either. It's just that the existential truth is both sideways to all spiritual cultures and also buried within the "hidden center" of every specific genuine spiritual culture. I've heard of it, of course, but I don't really know what Beginner's Mind refers to. Jesus dude, you'd have to dig a deep hole and close your eyes in the dark to find Neti buried in Christianity, but seek and ye shall find, right...... Right?
|
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 23, 2024 23:44:41 GMT -5
They measure how far it goes and compare that to the effect of the tested substance. For some treatments there is no detectable placebo effect and for others it is significant. I'm pretty sure scientists have investigated the placebo effect and here's probably plenty of literature out there. They almost certainly talk about it a whole bunch. I know psychological advantages are abigthing in sports science, including but not limited to increased performance with music, pre-lift rituals, visualisations and self-talk. That's not to say we can replace training with a ritual or something, but as a complement it works for near enough everyone .
Spiritual people are like, 'it's all belief you don't even need to lift' and I'mlike,how come these no training people aren't at the olympics? I mean I have an open mind, but eventually you have to show me the money. In fact if anyone want to take me upon a challenge, you train your guy with the woo magic and I'll train my guy on routine training and we measure perfomance metrics for 3 months, Let's make a bet. Lets say the the woo magic approach is possibly superior,give ideal circumstances of belief or whatever the woo is, now lets test it in the real world and look at statistical significance. 0 woo trainees have shown superior outcomes. I both believe in miracles and understand statistical significance, so my rate of success is high. The Woo practitioner like Jesus Christ did what, 3 or four healings out of, like what, maybe 100,000? I mean, obviously I'm way more amazing than JC and have no delusions of grandeur at all.
What gives the game away about where we are culturally on the subject, is that you'll very often hear people say, 'Oh that was JUST the placebo effect'. Like....it's a 'fake' thing. Like....it's of no real value. They'd RATHER have medicine, than placebo. Culturally, we don't understand, appreciate and accept the power of our mind yet. I consider it a fact that a 'placebo' can be used to cure every illness on the planet. But there are limitations on that. First we have to believe that's possible, AND believe the mind is that powerful. We'd have to be congruent in our belief in the power of mind. And I'm not even congruent in the belief myself (I'll still take a headache pill occasionally if I have a headache). Would we even create illness if we could heal it instantly? Seems unlikely doesn't it? Jesus was able to heal when the individual was ready. Jesus merely set the stage, he didn't 'perform' a healing. He held a space, and held a solid faith that made the potential of healing possible. Potentials are not always realized though. There's a great Christian street healer I used to watch on youtube. Some might say it's a scam, but I don't believe it is at all. The only thing I would say, is that the healings might not 'stick'. The person goes home, another person says, 'don't be ridiculous', and they wake up the next morning back at square one. 'Readiness' is everything. Where we are 'at', as individuals, and as a collective, is everything. And yeah....where we are individually and collectively 'at' right now, is that being a super-athlete at the Olympics requires an absolute commitment to physical training. And that's cool. We have to enjoy and appreciate where we are at. I'm on the treadmill a fair bit lately, and enjoy the sense of physicality, the sense of getting a bit out of breath, the sense of pushing limits. It's part of my own exploration right now. It's not that I say 'it's just a placebo effect'. That from the perspective of 'power of the magic woo', someone saying 'Huh, this has an inexplicable effect' sounds like an understatement. Somehow the latter speaker, despite their materialist ignorance, has a much better track record of saving lives, but that's not relevant.
The problem is, the medicine typically shows a significant effect above and beyond the placebo effect, and if we secretly switched all the medicine for placebos, those statistics would play out.
The ideal doesn't resemble the real world, and something only works if applicable in reality.
|
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Feb 23, 2024 23:54:43 GMT -5
Seems to me, from the outside looking in, that this is why Zen is so different from other Buddhist variants. "Beginner's mind", for example, turns Dunning Kruger inside out. Zen doesn't seem to me to negate or deny "Dunning Kruger", per se, but offers a radically shifted perspective on it. Same with what some might deride as "Neo-Advaita". I'd prefer, "direct path nonduality". It's not about gain or improvement. It's about subtraction. Traditional Advaita Vedanta has the same flavor: neti-neti. It's buried in Christianity as well. And this isn't a critique of scholarship, either. It's just that the existential truth is both sideways to all spiritual cultures and also buried within the "hidden center" of every specific genuine spiritual culture. I've heard of it, of course, but I don't really know what Beginner's Mind refers to. Jesus dude, you'd have to dig a deep hole and close your eyes in the dark to find Neti buried in Christianity, but seek and ye shall find, right...... Right?
- Shoshin (Japanese: 初心) is a concept from Zen Buddhism meaning beginner's mind. It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying, even at an advanced level, just as a beginner would. The term is especially used in the study of Zen Buddhism and Japanese martial arts, and was popularized outside of Japan by Shunryū Suzuki's 1970 book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.
The practice of shoshin acts as a counter to the hubris and closed-mindedness often associated with thinking of oneself as an expert. This includes the Einstellung effect, where a person becomes so accustomed to a certain way of doing things that they do not consider or acknowledge new ideas or approaches. The word shoshin is a combination of sho (Japanese: 初), meaning "beginner" or "initial", and shin (Japanese: 心), meaning "mind".
--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 24, 2024 0:00:12 GMT -5
What gives the game away about where we are culturally on the subject, is that you'll very often hear people say, 'Oh that was JUST the placebo effect'. Like....it's a 'fake' thing. Like....it's of no real value. They'd RATHER have medicine, than placebo. Culturally, we don't understand, appreciate and accept the power of our mind yet. I consider it a fact that a 'placebo' can be used to cure every illness on the planet. But there are limitations on that. First we have to believe that's possible, AND believe the mind is that powerful. We'd have to be congruent in our belief in the power of mind. And I'm not even congruent in the belief myself (I'll still take a headache pill occasionally if I have a headache). Would we even create illness if we could heal it instantly? Seems unlikely doesn't it? Jesus was able to heal when the individual was ready. Jesus merely set the stage, he didn't 'perform' a healing. He held a space, and held a solid faith that made the potential of healing possible. Potentials are not always realized though. There's a great Christian street healer I used to watch on youtube. Some might say it's a scam, but I don't believe it is at all. The only thing I would say, is that the healings might not 'stick'. The person goes home, another person says, 'don't be ridiculous', and they wake up the next morning back at square one. 'Readiness' is everything. Where we are 'at', as individuals, and as a collective, is everything. And yeah....where we are individually and collectively 'at' right now, is that being a super-athlete at the Olympics requires an absolute commitment to physical training. And that's cool. We have to enjoy and appreciate where we are at. I'm on the treadmill a fair bit lately, and enjoy the sense of physicality, the sense of getting a bit out of breath, the sense of pushing limits. It's part of my own exploration right now. It's not that I say 'it's just a placebo effect'. That from the perspective of 'power of the magic woo', someone saying 'Huh, this has an inexplicable effect' sounds like an understatement. Somehow the latter speaker, despite their materialist ignorance, has a much better track record of saving lives, but that's not relevant.
The problem is, the medicine typically shows a significant effect above and beyond the placebo effect, and if we secretly switched all the medicine for placebos, those statistics would play out. The ideal doesn't resemble the real world, and something only works if applicable in reality.
Yes, those statistics are true, but we also don't know what's going on in the layers of belief in the minds of the individuals. If placebo can create small difference, it can also create big difference, because it's the same principle at play. Or, if just ONE person can fully recover from an 'incurable' illness because of a placebo....that potential holds true for everyone. We would just have to find out what was going on with that one person in their layers of belief. That's tricky to do, and even if we could do it, we can't just 'transplant' those beliefs into other people. As said, each individual has their own valid exploration, their own valid life lessons, their own valid purpose for being here. Our beliefs change when we are ready. What I can say with strong confidence is that, culturally, we are not quite ready to accept our potential. But as J said, 'we will do greater things'...and I think he's right. We can only ignore our potential for so long. Explorations get tiring, interests change, karma resolves. At some point, we will be ready to explore our internal capacities. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Feb 24, 2024 0:09:00 GMT -5
It's not that I say 'it's just a placebo effect'. That from the perspective of 'power of the magic woo', someone saying 'Huh, this has an inexplicable effect' sounds like an understatement. Somehow the latter speaker, despite their materialist ignorance, has a much better track record of saving lives, but that's not relevant.
The problem is, the medicine typically shows a significant effect above and beyond the placebo effect, and if we secretly switched all the medicine for placebos, those statistics would play out.
The ideal doesn't resemble the real world, and something only works if applicable in reality.
I don't understand why you're so dismissive based only on your impression and the establishment's opinion that agrees with that, and don't look at some data, like the links I've posted today. I realize that you don't understand the phenomenon, and even less you have a hypothesis how it might work. That's the "beginner's mind", and its definition was only a search away, but you just stated you don't know what that is, just to dismiss it, and to throw a baseless shadow of doubt, like in the case of placebo, LOA, Jesus, ... everything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. Probably we all do to some degree this same thing as you do, but it is easier to see it in others. There is something to learn from. NOTE: this isn't a challenge to you. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 24, 2024 0:13:46 GMT -5
I've heard of it, of course, but I don't really know what Beginner's Mind refers to. Jesus dude, you'd have to dig a deep hole and close your eyes in the dark to find Neti buried in Christianity, but seek and ye shall find, right...... Right?
- Shoshin (Japanese: 初心) is a concept from Zen Buddhism meaning beginner's mind. It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying, even at an advanced level, just as a beginner would. The term is especially used in the study of Zen Buddhism and Japanese martial arts, and was popularized outside of Japan by Shunryū Suzuki's 1970 book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.
The practice of shoshin acts as a counter to the hubris and closed-mindedness often associated with thinking of oneself as an expert. This includes the Einstellung effect, where a person becomes so accustomed to a certain way of doing things that they do not consider or acknowledge new ideas or approaches. The word shoshin is a combination of sho (Japanese: 初), meaning "beginner" or "initial", and shin (Japanese: 心), meaning "mind".
--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin
Ok, I can google wiki probably even better than you can (no one googles better than me), and I would have done that faster and more proficiency myself, but my logic is, if a "beginner's" mind is good, a "haven't even started yet" mind must be much better, so in order to retain my clearly superior position, I did not google "Beginner's mind", even though I'm definitely the best googler that will ever live. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Feb 24, 2024 0:27:21 GMT -5
duckduckgo.com/"Beginner%27s+mind"- Shoshin (Japanese: 初心) is a concept from Zen Buddhism meaning beginner's mind. It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying, even at an advanced level, just as a beginner would. The term is especially used in the study of Zen Buddhism and Japanese martial arts, and was popularized outside of Japan by Shunryū Suzuki's 1970 book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind.
The practice of shoshin acts as a counter to the hubris and closed-mindedness often associated with thinking of oneself as an expert. This includes the Einstellung effect, where a person becomes so accustomed to a certain way of doing things that they do not consider or acknowledge new ideas or approaches. The word shoshin is a combination of sho (Japanese: 初), meaning "beginner" or "initial", and shin (Japanese: 心), meaning "mind".
--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin
Ok, I can google wiki probably even better than you can (no one googles better than me), and I would have done that faster and more proficiency myself, but my logic is, if a "beginner's" mind is good, a "haven't even started yet" mind must be much better, so in order to retain my clearly superior position, I did not google "Beginner's mind", even though I'm definitely the best googler that will ever live. We disagree on this too ... "beginner's mind" means "unconditioned by incorrect beliefs that one isn't aware of". I understand this easier because it is what I do when interpreting events, situations, quotes, tapping my inner source of knowledge and guidance (I keep suggesting to leave aside all your beliefs and expectations). This is what the first six verses of the chapter 3 of Patanjal's Yoga Sutras describe (even if some translations makes understanding difficult). |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 24, 2024 0:46:47 GMT -5
It's not that I say 'it's just a placebo effect'. That from the perspective of 'power of the magic woo', someone saying 'Huh, this has an inexplicable effect' sounds like an understatement. Somehow the latter speaker, despite their materialist ignorance, has a much better track record of saving lives, but that's not relevant.
The problem is, the medicine typically shows a significant effect above and beyond the placebo effect, and if we secretly switched all the medicine for placebos, those statistics would play out.
The ideal doesn't resemble the real world, and something only works if applicable in reality.
I don't understand why you're so dismissive based only on your impression and establishment opinion that agrees with that, and don't look at some data, like the link I've posted. I realize that you don't understand the phenomenon, and even less you have a hypothesis how it might work. That's the "beginner's mind", and its definition was only a search away, but you just stated you don't know what that is, just to dismiss it, and throw an baseless shadow of doubt, like in the case of placebo, LOA, Jesus, ... everything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. Probably we all do the same thing as you do, but it is easier to see it in others. There is something to learn from here. NOTE: this isn't a challenge to you. That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available?
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 24, 2024 0:56:27 GMT -5
I don't understand why you're so dismissive based only on your impression and establishment opinion that agrees with that, and don't look at some data, like the link I've posted. I realize that you don't understand the phenomenon, and even less you have a hypothesis how it might work. That's the "beginner's mind", and its definition was only a search away, but you just stated you don't know what that is, just to dismiss it, and throw an baseless shadow of doubt, like in the case of placebo, LOA, Jesus, ... everything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. Probably we all do the same thing as you do, but it is easier to see it in others. There is something to learn from here. NOTE: this isn't a challenge to you. That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available? If what I said came across that way, that was a mistake on my part (I don't actually understand what you think I said). I meant that there seems to be a specific section of the population that are becoming MORE dependent on medicine or institutions to 'save' them. I'd say that's regressive. On the other hand though, there are many others learning to become responsible for the connection between 'belief' and the reality they experience. The distinction between possibility and probability is relevant in this conversation, I agree. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Feb 24, 2024 1:22:24 GMT -5
I don't understand why you're so dismissive based only on your impression and establishment opinion that agrees with that, and don't look at some data, like the link I've posted. I realize that you don't understand the phenomenon, and even less you have a hypothesis how it might work. That's the "beginner's mind", and its definition was only a search away, but you just stated you don't know what that is, just to dismiss it, and throw an baseless shadow of doubt, like in the case of placebo, LOA, Jesus, ... everything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. Probably we all do the same thing as you do, but it is easier to see it in others. There is something to learn from here. NOTE: this isn't a challenge to you. That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available?
Again, you made assertions that are not true. Besides, LOA doesn't mean "attracted by what people consciously believe, or want to believe". Unfortunately, this discussion leads nowhere, and it isn't conducive to a dispassionate and constructive exposure of our beliefs and hypotheses. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 24, 2024 1:33:01 GMT -5
I don't understand why you're so dismissive based only on your impression and establishment opinion that agrees with that, and don't look at some data, like the link I've posted. I realize that you don't understand the phenomenon, and even less you have a hypothesis how it might work. That's the "beginner's mind", and its definition was only a search away, but you just stated you don't know what that is, just to dismiss it, and throw an baseless shadow of doubt, like in the case of placebo, LOA, Jesus, ... everything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. Probably we all do the same thing as you do, but it is easier to see it in others. There is something to learn from here. NOTE: this isn't a challenge to you. That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available? Just to give my take on that. I don't know much at all about polio or the vaccine, so I'll speak in more general terms. There have been many technological innovations throughout history that express an expansion of our consciousness, and a positive evolution at the time. Maybe that was one, I really can't say. But at this point...where we are now....I'd say positive evolution must be far more internal than external. For example, with AI, I'd say we haven't evolved enough as a species to currently use it in a positive way. Transhumanism (and transhumanists) are another good example, their fear of death is driving them to make a real mess of nature. When our evolution is more internal than external, we will use technology far more wisely. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 24, 2024 2:48:10 GMT -5
That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available?
Again, you made assertions that are not true. Besides, LOA doesn't mean "attracted by what people consciously believe, or want to believe". Unfortunately, this discussion leads nowhere, and it isn't conducive to a dispassionate and constructive exposure of our beliefs and hypotheses. Everything that works has caveats. You can cherry pick critiques, but when you weigh up strengths and weaknesses this is what you get.
|
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 24, 2024 3:05:37 GMT -5
That's contrary to what I said, like "I believe in miracles", the phychological advantages to athletic performance, the acknowlegment of faith healing and the veracity of placebos, but something being possible doesn't imply it's probable. Since the ideal conditions for miracle cures for everything in everyone aren't compatible with real-world conditions, as amazing as miracles are, they are rare. The spiritualists can wow me with the examples that woo, but a vaccine that eradicated polio in everyone is not even relevant let alone remarkable. Now Andrew has to come up with an off the cuff explanation of how at the same time the vaccine was released literally 100% of people were 'ready' all at the same time, and why that applies to zero illnesses for which no vaccine is available? Just to give my take on that. I don't know much at all about polio or the vaccine, so I'll speak in more general terms. There have been many technological innovations throughout history that express an expansion of our consciousness, and a positive evolution at the time. Maybe that was one, I really can't say. But at this point...where we are now....I'd say positive evolution must be far more internal than external. For example, with AI, I'd say we haven't evolved enough as a species to currently use it in a positive way. Transhumanism (and transhumanists) are another good example, their fear of death is driving them to make a real mess of nature. When our evolution is more internal than external, we will use technology far more wisely. I'm sure there must have spontaneous remissions in polio that left doctors bemused, but if I were to take a guess, the placebo effect on polio was basically undetectable in trials. However, the vaccine worked in just about everyone and the causal chain was pretty well understood. If there was a woo shift in consciousness that wiped out polio, it just so happened to coincide with the vaccine - what are the odds?
However, a vaccine doesn't just magically appear independent from everything else. The whole set of conditions have to come to together to create the circumstances which make it not only possible, but 100% probable. AI arose under circumstances as well, it didn't just pop out of the blue, and now it's here, it too adds to the conditions that come together to create the circumstances for new possibilities, most of which will be trivial, but some of which will be stratospheric.
Nothing amazing has to happen.'This' is a miracle all by itself.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 24, 2024 3:16:03 GMT -5
Just to give my take on that. I don't know much at all about polio or the vaccine, so I'll speak in more general terms. There have been many technological innovations throughout history that express an expansion of our consciousness, and a positive evolution at the time. Maybe that was one, I really can't say. But at this point...where we are now....I'd say positive evolution must be far more internal than external. For example, with AI, I'd say we haven't evolved enough as a species to currently use it in a positive way. Transhumanism (and transhumanists) are another good example, their fear of death is driving them to make a real mess of nature. When our evolution is more internal than external, we will use technology far more wisely. I'm sure there must have spontaneous remissions in polio that left doctors bemused, but if I were to take a guess, the placebo effect on polio was basically undetectable in trials. However, the vaccine worked in just about everyone and the causal chain was pretty well understood. If there was a woo shift in consciousness that wiped out polio, it just so happened to coincide with the vaccine - what are the odds?
However, a vaccine doesn't just magically appear independent from everything else. The whole set of conditions have to come to together to create the circumstances which make it not only possible, but 100% probable. AI arose under circumstances as well, it didn't just pop out of the blue, and now it's here, it too adds to the conditions that come together to create the circumstances for new possibilities, most of which will be trivial, but some of which will be stratospheric. Nothing amazing has to happen.'This' is a miracle all by itself.
Oddly, I'm getting the impression that you aren't reading what I'm saying. In the other message, I assumed it was my fault, but now....I'm not sure you are reading what I'm saying. Do you think I said something along the lines that the polio vaccine didn't work? I agree nothing pops out of the blue. I think some things arise from positive inspiration, and others from negative ego. The Law Of Attraction responds to both energies. Understanding that, would be a positive part of the evolution of consciousness. I can't say what kind of energy created the polio vaccine coz I don't know. Was it more from a positive desire for better health? Or more from a fearful avoidance of death? If it was the former, LOA would respond by supporting us in better health. If it was the latter, LOA would respond by creating more things in our reality that trigger our deepest fears (e.g it might give us new viruses to medicate ourselves against). |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Feb 24, 2024 4:13:01 GMT -5
I'm sure there must have spontaneous remissions in polio that left doctors bemused, but if I were to take a guess, the placebo effect on polio was basically undetectable in trials. However, the vaccine worked in just about everyone and the causal chain was pretty well understood. If there was a woo shift in consciousness that wiped out polio, it just so happened to coincide with the vaccine - what are the odds?
However, a vaccine doesn't just magically appear independent from everything else. The whole set of conditions have to come to together to create the circumstances which make it not only possible, but 100% probable. AI arose under circumstances as well, it didn't just pop out of the blue, and now it's here, it too adds to the conditions that come together to create the circumstances for new possibilities, most of which will be trivial, but some of which will be stratospheric. Nothing amazing has to happen.'This' is a miracle all by itself.
Oddly, I'm getting the impression that you aren't reading what I'm saying. In the other message, I assumed it was my fault, but now....I'm not sure you are reading what I'm saying. Do you think I said something along the lines that the polio vaccine didn't work? I agree nothing pops out of the blue. I think some things arise from positive inspiration, and others from negative ego. The Law Of Attraction responds to both energies. Understanding that, would be a positive part of the evolution of consciousness. I can't say what kind of energy created the polio vaccine coz I don't know. Was it more from a positive desire for better health? Or more from a fearful avoidance of death? If it was the former, LOA would respond by supporting us in better health. If it was the latter, LOA would respond by creating more things in our reality that trigger our deepest fears (e.g it might give us new viruses to medicate ourselves against). Sorry, I'm off on my own tangent and not listening.
Agreed positive inspiration and negative ego. Although I just talk about karma and not LoA, I recognise the karma story in the story of LOA the way Reefs tells it, and it sounds like I'm at loggerheads just cuz Reefs says things about karma that lack the nuance of the thing, but I'm down with LoA now I've heard about the deeper part of it.
When I was in late teens I got involved with a Louise Hay inspired 'healing centre' - real late 80's new agey. They had a system like this emotion means that part of the body, knee pain means no direction life, and that sort of thing. There were various professional (made a living from) energy healers et. al. that saw people and it was the whole "You can Heal Your Life" thang.
When you talk about how one reacts (fear or desire for benefits). it gets tricky... because the volitions from fear of death are avoiding and clinging, and my mind can't gel that with the word 'inspiration'. On the other hand, with a desire for benefit that isn't going to freak out if everything starts going wrong, coming from love and compassion and a fundamental wish that all living things are happy, I can call the impulsions 'intuition'. The karma directly means goodwill and ill-will in this way. I think in this context of fearing death, the link between fear and suffering compared to acceptance and peace is easy to see, and a wide scope is needed to capture the whole sky.
I think fear results in the iron lung and metta inspires good-will in the real world. I find the latter complicated because an imposition of will is a consent issue even in the most abstract sense of only receiving as much as you can allow. If you consider your limitations, and limitations of other people, healing in the world is kinda like operating without sterile conditions. Hence places like the healing centre become little pockets where conditions that make healing possible are amplified. Even though no one was cured of terminal conditions there, it was a real respite where they seemed more inclined to accept everything and let it be.
|
|
