Karma vs. Law of Attraction

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 9:19:01 GMT -5 laughter said:

Feb 18, 2024 21:36:18 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Seth is actually pretty close to the QM model of reality. And this is the point I wanted to make with the salamander story, that contemporary science and yogic science are not that far apart actually, you just need the right bridge, as in the case of QM bridging contemporary physics and spirituality and religion in some way.

If you look at what I say about health and healing from the extensions of Source perspective, it should all makes sense. I'll post some details from the Moorjani cancer case later, she let doctors document it. It will be a good example for what I am getting at.

Spira is a bit too theoretical. He seems to talk himself into realizations that he apparently never had. A bit like Figgles. On the surface, really beautiful and elegant oneness and emptiness poetry. But if you take a closer look, you'll see it's all just theory. His other video against solipsism, for example, is basically him positioning himself as a solipsist, haha.

precious! Now, as to QM: QM is impersonal, and is expressed from an objective foundation. What it had to shed from that foundation is determinism, which is replaced by a stochastic model (which, no, is not "random" in the truest sense of that word). Spiritualists wander off into solipsism when they start making assumptions about the question "what is the QM observer?". The conclusion that the entire Universe is alive at "the atomic level" is sort of suggested, even by Heisenberg (but only in writing on a metaphysical tangent, and I'm not sure about Bohr), but never embraced explicitly. Later commentators in the field, like the ones zd has mentioned over time, have gotten more explicit on the topic, and I haven't taken the time to read the material to see if they're making the same mistake, as say a Chopra, or, as it would seem from here, Spira.

I'm very much on board with most of what you say about health and healing from a Source perspective, except for one particular point. Change, is nothing but time, and time, is nothing but change, so this idea of immediate manifestation is one that I reserve any judgment on for now. I don't disagree with the point that "creative potential is only ever Now", butt,  the applicable tenkautology is: "it takes time to manifest whatever it takes time to manifest".

Interesting observation. I often see people using QM as proof for LOA being legit and scientific, but I don't think it's that simple. And Seth is not a solipsist, if that's your concern. Seth has this concept of CU's, units of consciousness, as the smallest building blocks of this or any universe. So you could take this as some kind of basic, objective reality. He also talks about 'vitality', something that we would call life force, and once described the physical world as 'solidified vitality'. And that's a rather clever and also poetic of way of expression that pretty much nails it, IMO. And speaking of nails, Seth's quote about the nail on the window sill is what kicked off our perpetual aliveness debate, hehe...

Seth: Ruburt once wrote a poem about a nail on a window sill. He endowed the nail with consciousness and self‐awareness. Now every nail is indeed in its own way responsive to stimuli. It acts and reacts. A nail may not choose to jump down from a window still and dance about the room, but a nail is indeed aware of the room, of the window sill, and aware of the temperature on both sides of the window. The atoms and molecules that compose the nail possess their own lively consciousnesses. Their motion is directed by electrons, so that within itself the nail actually experiences constant motion. Indeed, a dance is executed of great symmetry and rhythm. The nail, then, is indeed filled with its own sense of self‐approval. I am mentioning this only to stress the fact that self‐delight and self‐ approval are natural characteristics — characteristics that actually make your entire physical world, and world of experience, possible.

That's basically the lila perspective, the world as the divine play of God. Watts was a big promoter of that, but also Niz and especially Ramakrishna, even Ramana used it extensively. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila_(Hinduism)

As for instant manifestations, Seth would explain it by jumping timelines maybe, and Abe by referring to the Vortex (quantum field?), where it already exists, but (in Abe terms) your senses cannot see it yet, or (in Seth terms) your senses haven't constructed it yet, or (in QM terms) ____ [fill in the blank].

[sharon]

Feb 18, 2024 21:44:16 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Feb 18, 2024 17:33:36 GMT -5 sharon said:

Deers regrow their antlers as shown in Number 2 of this list..

www.thecoldwire.com/animals-that-can-regrow-limbs/

There is a well documented case by Dr. Morse with week by week pictures of someone who regrew a toe. There are also lots of cases of people who remineralized their teeth, i.e. fillings falling out and being replaced naturally. And also some cases of actually regrowing missing teeth. Now, of course, 'they' didn't do that, only nature can heal.

I guess I find this subject quite interesting. It's the intelligence in the surrounding cells that are responsible for the regrowing. I work with plants as you know and they regrow all the time because of the 'energy' in the nodes. The nodes are points on the branches that contain the healing ability and regrowth information. If you put a node in contact with soil then it will grow roots instead. So yeah the regrowing in animals, mostly reptiles is clearly an evolutionary adaptation. Could humans also regrow, I would imagine without the emotional limitation then yes. Not that I want to put it to the test though!

But, if we consider the fact that our cells are replaced constantly through our lives, and that none of us have the exact same cells as we had 10 years ago. Add that to the fact that science of the future will regrow organs for us from our own DNA, I don't think this conversation is that unusual at all.
 

[lolly]

Feb 19, 2024 6:57:01 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Feb 19, 2024 0:27:16 GMT -5 lolly said:

Tru dat. The entire shemozzle is not even there.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali

It's a treatise on yoga. In the later chapters he goes into the mechanics of siddhis (supernatural powers), which is basically identical to what I have said here about the mechanics of miracles.

So, what you are saying, would go against Patanjali and the yoga tradition.

I doubt what you are saying is true, and I think it's probably baiting, but I don't know anything about Pantanjali or supernatural powers, and I don't want to take the bait, but I believe in miracles, so maybe we're on the same page.

[sharon]

Feb 19, 2024 17:00:21 GMT -5 lolly said:

Feb 19, 2024 6:57:01 GMT -5 Reefs said:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali

It's a treatise on yoga. In the later chapters he goes into the mechanics of siddhis (supernatural powers), which is basically identical to what I have said here about the mechanics of miracles.

So, what you are saying, would go against Patanjali and the yoga tradition.

I doubt what you are saying is true, and I think it's probably baiting, but I don't know anything about Pantanjali or supernatural powers, and I don't want to take the bait, but I believe in miracles, so maybe we're on the same page.

"Miracles we can do straight away, the impossible takes a little longer." 

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 14:14:00 GMT -5 sharon said:

Feb 18, 2024 21:44:16 GMT -5 Reefs said:

There is a well documented case by Dr. Morse with week by week pictures of someone who regrew a toe. There are also lots of cases of people who remineralized their teeth, i.e. fillings falling out and being replaced naturally. And also some cases of actually regrowing missing teeth. Now, of course, 'they' didn't do that, only nature can heal.

I guess I find this subject quite interesting. It's the intelligence in the surrounding cells that are responsible for the regrowing. I work with plants as you know and they regrow all the time because of the 'energy' in the nodes. The nodes are points on the branches that contain the healing ability and regrowth information. If you put a node in contact with soil then it will grow roots instead. So yeah the regrowing in animals, mostly reptiles is clearly an evolutionary adaptation. Could humans also regrow, I would imagine without the emotional limitation then yes. Not that I want to put it to the test though!

But, if we consider the fact that our cells are replaced constantly through our lives, and that none of us have the exact same cells as we had 10 years ago. Add that to the fact that science of the future will regrow organs for us from our own DNA, I don't think this conversation is that unusual at all.
 

Yes, plants and also frogs is covered in the book I mentioned. With plants it basically worked all the time, with frogs most of the time and with salamanders also most of the time but there are certain requirements, like the wound had to stay open or else there was no regeneration/regrowth of the limb. This is also where you had showing up different kinds of voltage, which seemed to determine if regrowth happened or not. There's actually a book called Healing is Voltage. Haven't read it, but it's related to acupuncture, I think. And acupuncture works with the Qi (or prana) concept, which they also use in yoga, so I think electricity could work as a bridge between yoga and medicine, the same way QM works as a bridge between physics and Seth & Friends.

In magic and metaphysics, they place great importance on the Moon and the Moon cycles, especially in astrology. It's especially related growth cycles for plants and crops but also to healing. That used to actually be common knowledge before the so-called age of enlightenment. Physician used to draw up an astrological chart before they examined their patients. There's a concept called the sublunar sphere, which is basically what we would call physical reality. So the Moon, symbolically, is standing between the physical and the non-physical realm, as a focal point or portal, and that sphere is also related to what is known as the astral sphere. And the astral body is often described as a sort of pure energy replica of the physical body, or more the other way around, i.e. the physical body being the physical reflection or manifestation of the astral body, because the astral body works more like a blueprint for the physical body. So when it comes to healing, if you stay within the paradigms of modern medicine or biology, then the explanation you gave seems most plausible. However, if you want to explain the Moorjani case, I think the astral body concept is the better explanation, i.e. there is a perfect blueprint and the body naturally tries to align with that and manifest that. So all you need to do is get out of the way and let nature do its work. Exactly as Anita explained it. I think Abe mentioned once that this is also the reason why some people fall into a coma, it eliminates your own negative mental noise which does affect the body very negatively and so a coma would speed up the healing process. An interesting take.

So depending on our individual paradigms and mental models that we choose to adhere to (for whatever reason), there are different possible explanations for one and the same phenomenon, and these different explanations also come with different limits. So, IMO, dismissing what is not reasonable within the conceptual framework of the lower models of reality (like contemporary medicine and science) but perfectly reasonable within the conceptual framework of the higher models of reality (like metaphysics, yoga, deliberate creation) as poppycock, seems like the height of foolishness to me. But this is why suffering is always optional, because it is a choice. You can go with the current collective consensus paradigm and sell yourself short, or you can break out of that and live your true potential. It's always a choice. Every single moment. So why limit yourself to a life as a hungry ghost? It could be totally different when seen thru the eyes of Source or the Vastness.

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 17:00:21 GMT -5 lolly said:

Feb 19, 2024 6:57:01 GMT -5 Reefs said:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali

It's a treatise on yoga. In the later chapters he goes into the mechanics of siddhis (supernatural powers), which is basically identical to what I have said here about the mechanics of miracles.

So, what you are saying, would go against Patanjali and the yoga tradition.

I doubt what you are saying is true, and I think it's probably baiting, but I don't know anything about Pantanjali or supernatural powers, and I don't want to take the bait, but I believe in miracles, so maybe we're on the same page.

Well, do you doubt the JC miracle stories too? If you do, then fine, at least you're being consistent. And I will respect that. 

In case you don't believe it, how would you explain stigmata and events of bilocation by contemporary saints?


Here's from Patanjali, I'm sure you can relate to at least some degree:

(from book 3, on divine powers aka siddhis):

3.1 One-pointedness is steadfastness of the mind.

3.2 Unbroken continuation of that mental ability is meditation.

3.3 That same meditation when there is only consciousness of the object of meditation and not of the mind is realization.

3.4 The three appearing together are self-control.

3.5 By mastery comes wisdom.

3.6 The application of mastery is by stages.

3.7 The three are more efficacious than the restraints.

3.8 Even that is external to the seedless realization.

3.9 The significant aspect is the union of the mind with the moment of absorption, when the outgoing thought disappears and the absorptive experience appears.

3.10 From sublimation of this union comes the peaceful flow of unbroken unitive cognition.

3.11 The contemplative transformation of this is equalmindedness, witnessing the rise and destruction of distraction as well as one-pointedness itself.

3.12 The mind becomes one-pointed when the subsiding and rising thought-waves are exactly similar.

3.13 In this state, it passes beyond the changes of inherent characteristics, properties and the conditional modifications of object or sensory recognition.

3.14 The object is that which preserves the latent characteristic, the rising characteristic or the yet-to-be-named characteristic that establishes one entity as specific.

3.15 The succession of these changes in that entity is the cause of its modification.

3.16 By self-control over these three-fold changes (of property, character and condition), knowledge of the past and the future arises.

3.17 The sound of a word, the idea behind the word, and the object the idea signfies are often taken as being one thing and may be mistaken for one another. By self-control over their distinctions, understanding of all languages of all creatures arises.

3.18 By self-control on the perception of mental impressions, knowledge of previous lives arises.

3.19 By self-control on any mark of a body, the wisdom of the mind activating that body arises.

3.20 By self-control on the form of a body, by suspending perceptibility and separating effulgence therefrom, there arises invisibility and inaudibilty.

3.21 Action is of two kinds, dormant and fruitful. By self-control on such action, one portends the time of death.

3.22 By performing self-control on friendliness, the strength to grant joy arises.

3.23 By self-control over any kind of strength, such as that of the elephant, that very strength arises.

3.24 By self-control on the primal activator comes knowledge of the hidden, the subtle, and the distant.

3.25 By self-control on the Sun comes knowledge of spatial specificities.

3.26 By self-control on the Moon comes knowledge of the heavens.

3.27 By self-control on the Polestar arises knowledge of orbits.

3.28 By self-control on the navel arises knowledge of the constitution of the body.

3.29 By self-control on the pit of the throat one subdues hunger and thirst.

3.30 By self-control on the tube within the chest one acquires absolute steadiness.

3.31 By self-control on the light in the head one envisions perfected beings.

3.32 There is knowledge of everything from intuition.

3.33 Self-control on the heart brings knowledge of the mental entity.

3.34 Experience arises due to the inability of discerning the attributes of vitality from the indweller, even though they are indeed distinct from one another. Self-control brings true knowledge of the indweller by itself.

3.35 This spontaneous enlightenment results in intuitional perception of hearing, touching, seeing and smelling.

3.36 To the outward turned mind, the sensory organs are perfections, but are obstacles to realization.

3.37 When the bonds of the mind caused by action have been loosened, one may enter the body of another by knowledge of how the nerve-currents function.

3.38 By self-control of the nerve-currents utilising the lifebreath, one may levitate, walk on water, swamps, thorns, or the like.

3.39 By self-control over the maintenance of breath, one may radiate light.

3.40 By self-control on the relation of the ear to the ether one gains distant hearing.

3.41 By self-control over the relation of the body to the ether, and maintaining at the same time the thought of the lightness of cotton, one is able to pass through space.

3.42 By self-control on the mind when it is separated from the body- the state known as the Great Transcorporeal- all coverings are removed from the Light.

3.43 Mastery over the elements arises when their gross and subtle forms,as well as their essential characteristics, and the inherent attributes and experiences they produce, is examined in self-control.

3.44 Thereby one may become as tiny as an atom as well as having many other abilities, such as perfection of the body, and non-resistence to duty.

3.45 Perfection of the body consists in beauty, grace, strength and adamantine hardness.

3.46 By self-control on the changes that the sense-organs endure when contacting objects, and on the power of the sense of identity, and of the influence of the attributes, and the experience all these produce- one masters the senses.

3.47 From that come swiftness of mind, independence of perception, and mastery over primoridal matter.

3.48 To one who recognizes the distinctive relation between vitality and indweller comes omnipotence and omniscience.

3.49 Even for the destruction of the seed of bondage by desirelessness there comes absolute independence.

3.50 When invited by invisible beings one should be neither flattered nor satisfied, for there is yet a possibility of ignorance rising up.

3.51 By self-control over single moments and their succession there is wisdom born of discrimination.

3.52 From that there is recognition of two similars when that difference cannot be distinguished by class, characteristic or position.

3.53 Intuition, which is the entire discriminative knowledge, relates to all objects at all times, and is without succession.

3.54 Liberation is attained when there is equal purity between vitality and the indweller.

Now, this is all presented in a very logical, even scientific way. And if you read verse 3.38, then you'll see the JC connection. And JC is often seen as a yogi or avatar.  And avatars are said to have total conscious control over all their physical aspects of their beingness. And Patanjali explains how that is.

In a sense, this is some kind of higher alchemy, not that different from the destruction of karma alchemy that you tend to described. You are just not aware of the greater implications, it seems.

However, people like RM usually discourage their followers from following that route, because it is based on the misconception of being a self and therefore those practices are only reinforcing that false sense of self and cannot lead to liberation.

[DonHelado]

Lots of abstract babbling, theories, and book-knowledge, second and third-hand stories. In contrast, people who are grounded in Reality tell stories from their actual lives and first-hand experience. But that's too humbling for people who've invested years building a giant edifice of imaginary ideas, and mistaking that for spiritual progress.

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 17:13:40 GMT -5 inavalan said:

"You have no idea of the discovery that is possible for you. You can change your physical existence as you know it. And you can do it tomorrow morning. You have the ability to do this. Until you realize that you have this ability, you are powerless. When you realize and accept the fact that you form your physical reality, you can change it instantly—and that is your freedom. I cannot give it to you, but you can take it and I challenge you to do so. It is yours for the taking—freedom of action—it is yours, accept it. It brings with it not only responsibility, but joy such as you have never known. It is yours in this instant—you have only to accept it."

--- ECS1 ESP Class Session, September 2, 1969

"Now for most people it is easier to get glasses."

--- NoPR #623

Perfectly stated. 

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 21:56:20 GMT -5 DonHelado said:

Lots of abstract babbling, theories, and book-knowledge, second and third-hand stories. In contrast, people who are grounded in Reality tell stories from their actual lives and first-hand experience. But that's too humbling for people who've invested years building a giant edifice of imaginary ideas, and mistaking that for spiritual progress.

Are you Robertk/Robertc?

Anyway, whoever you are, if you want to be taken seriously and get a direct reply, then you have to cut down on the giraffe herding and especially put down your crusader sword. Or else people here will continue to ignore you because they'll think you are a troll. 

Was that clear enough for you?

[inavalan]

Feb 19, 2024 17:49:10 GMT -5 sharon said:

Feb 19, 2024 17:00:21 GMT -5 lolly said:

I doubt what you are saying is true, and I think it's probably baiting, but I don't know anything about Pantanjali or supernatural powers, and I don't want to take the bait, but I believe in miracles, so maybe we're on the same page.

"Miracles we can do straight away, the impossible takes a little longer." 

quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/10/impossible-longer/

It seems, nobody took it at face value.

[DonHelado]

Feb 19, 2024 22:13:33 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Feb 19, 2024 21:56:20 GMT -5 DonHelado said:

Lots of abstract babbling, theories, and book-knowledge, second and third-hand stories. In contrast, people who are grounded in Reality tell stories from their actual lives and first-hand experience. But that's too humbling for people who've invested years building a giant edifice of imaginary ideas, and mistaking that for spiritual progress.

Are you Robertk/Robertc?

Anyway, whoever you are, if you want to be taken seriously and get a direct reply, then you have to cut down on the giraffe herding and especially put down your crusader sword. Or else people here will continue to ignore you because they'll think you are a troll. 

Was that clear enough for you?

I've had some interesting exchanges with several people here; I don't feel ignored.

I don't know what "giraffe herding" means. I might know what you mean by "crusading", but who cares? It seems like there are many thousands of posts from people repeating themselves, and telling others they are wrong. Is that not one of the games? 

I don't know who Robertk or Robertc is. I thought this was all virtual, and I don't know anybody here in real life. But now I see "Zendancer" has a real-life identity. 

[lolly]

Feb 19, 2024 21:52:05 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Feb 19, 2024 17:00:21 GMT -5 lolly said:

I doubt what you are saying is true, and I think it's probably baiting, but I don't know anything about Pantanjali or supernatural powers, and I don't want to take the bait, but I believe in miracles, so maybe we're on the same page.

Well, do you doubt the JC miracle stories too? If you do, then fine, at least you're being consistent. And I will respect that. 

In case you don't believe it, how would you explain stigmata and events of bilocation by contemporary saints?


Here's from Patanjali, I'm sure you can relate to at least some degree:

(from book 3, on divine powers aka siddhis):

3.1 One-pointedness is steadfastness of the mind.

3.2 Unbroken continuation of that mental ability is meditation.

3.3 That same meditation when there is only consciousness of the object of meditation and not of the mind is realization.

3.4 The three appearing together are self-control.

3.5 By mastery comes wisdom.

3.6 The application of mastery is by stages.

3.7 The three are more efficacious than the restraints.

3.8 Even that is external to the seedless realization.

3.9 The significant aspect is the union of the mind with the moment of absorption, when the outgoing thought disappears and the absorptive experience appears.

3.10 From sublimation of this union comes the peaceful flow of unbroken unitive cognition.

3.11 The contemplative transformation of this is equalmindedness, witnessing the rise and destruction of distraction as well as one-pointedness itself.

3.12 The mind becomes one-pointed when the subsiding and rising thought-waves are exactly similar.

3.13 In this state, it passes beyond the changes of inherent characteristics, properties and the conditional modifications of object or sensory recognition.

3.14 The object is that which preserves the latent characteristic, the rising characteristic or the yet-to-be-named characteristic that establishes one entity as specific.

3.15 The succession of these changes in that entity is the cause of its modification.

3.16 By self-control over these three-fold changes (of property, character and condition), knowledge of the past and the future arises.

3.17 The sound of a word, the idea behind the word, and the object the idea signfies are often taken as being one thing and may be mistaken for one another. By self-control over their distinctions, understanding of all languages of all creatures arises.

3.18 By self-control on the perception of mental impressions, knowledge of previous lives arises.

3.19 By self-control on any mark of a body, the wisdom of the mind activating that body arises.

3.20 By self-control on the form of a body, by suspending perceptibility and separating effulgence therefrom, there arises invisibility and inaudibilty.

3.21 Action is of two kinds, dormant and fruitful. By self-control on such action, one portends the time of death.

3.22 By performing self-control on friendliness, the strength to grant joy arises.

3.23 By self-control over any kind of strength, such as that of the elephant, that very strength arises.

3.24 By self-control on the primal activator comes knowledge of the hidden, the subtle, and the distant.

3.25 By self-control on the Sun comes knowledge of spatial specificities.

3.26 By self-control on the Moon comes knowledge of the heavens.

3.27 By self-control on the Polestar arises knowledge of orbits.

3.28 By self-control on the navel arises knowledge of the constitution of the body.

3.29 By self-control on the pit of the throat one subdues hunger and thirst.

3.30 By self-control on the tube within the chest one acquires absolute steadiness.

3.31 By self-control on the light in the head one envisions perfected beings.

3.32 There is knowledge of everything from intuition.

3.33 Self-control on the heart brings knowledge of the mental entity.

3.34 Experience arises due to the inability of discerning the attributes of vitality from the indweller, even though they are indeed distinct from one another. Self-control brings true knowledge of the indweller by itself.

3.35 This spontaneous enlightenment results in intuitional perception of hearing, touching, seeing and smelling.

3.36 To the outward turned mind, the sensory organs are perfections, but are obstacles to realization.

3.37 When the bonds of the mind caused by action have been loosened, one may enter the body of another by knowledge of how the nerve-currents function.

3.38 By self-control of the nerve-currents utilising the lifebreath, one may levitate, walk on water, swamps, thorns, or the like.

3.39 By self-control over the maintenance of breath, one may radiate light.

3.40 By self-control on the relation of the ear to the ether one gains distant hearing.

3.41 By self-control over the relation of the body to the ether, and maintaining at the same time the thought of the lightness of cotton, one is able to pass through space.

3.42 By self-control on the mind when it is separated from the body- the state known as the Great Transcorporeal- all coverings are removed from the Light.

3.43 Mastery over the elements arises when their gross and subtle forms,as well as their essential characteristics, and the inherent attributes and experiences they produce, is examined in self-control.

3.44 Thereby one may become as tiny as an atom as well as having many other abilities, such as perfection of the body, and non-resistence to duty.

3.45 Perfection of the body consists in beauty, grace, strength and adamantine hardness.

3.46 By self-control on the changes that the sense-organs endure when contacting objects, and on the power of the sense of identity, and of the influence of the attributes, and the experience all these produce- one masters the senses.

3.47 From that come swiftness of mind, independence of perception, and mastery over primoridal matter.

3.48 To one who recognizes the distinctive relation between vitality and indweller comes omnipotence and omniscience.

3.49 Even for the destruction of the seed of bondage by desirelessness there comes absolute independence.

3.50 When invited by invisible beings one should be neither flattered nor satisfied, for there is yet a possibility of ignorance rising up.

3.51 By self-control over single moments and their succession there is wisdom born of discrimination.

3.52 From that there is recognition of two similars when that difference cannot be distinguished by class, characteristic or position.

3.53 Intuition, which is the entire discriminative knowledge, relates to all objects at all times, and is without succession.

3.54 Liberation is attained when there is equal purity between vitality and the indweller.

Now, this is all presented in a very logical, even scientific way. And if you read verse 3.38, then you'll see the JC connection. And JC is often seen as a yogi or avatar.  And avatars are said to have total conscious control over all their physical aspects of their beingness. And Patanjali explains how that is.

In a sense, this is some kind of higher alchemy, not that different from the destruction of karma alchemy that you tend to described. You are just not aware of the greater implications, it seems.

However, people like RM usually discourage their followers from following that route, because it is based on the misconception of being a self and therefore those practices are only reinforcing that false sense of self and cannot lead to liberation.

JC stories are most likely embellished, but I give Him the benefit of the doubt.

My approach recognises the ego-self, but the one aware is not that.

I don't know what Patanjali says, and I'm unfamiliar with this terminology and can't tell what he means. I barely understood a line, but 3.49 sound like the essence of my blurb, though I can't tell if he's saying the opposite.

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 23:08:43 GMT -5 lolly said:

Feb 19, 2024 21:52:05 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Well, do you doubt the JC miracle stories too? If you do, then fine, at least you're being consistent. And I will respect that. 

In case you don't believe it, how would you explain stigmata and events of bilocation by contemporary saints?


Here's from Patanjali, I'm sure you can relate to at least some degree:

(from book 3, on divine powers aka siddhis):

Now, this is all presented in a very logical, even scientific way. And if you read verse 3.38, then you'll see the JC connection. And JC is often seen as a yogi or avatar.  And avatars are said to have total conscious control over all their physical aspects of their beingness. And Patanjali explains how that is.

In a sense, this is some kind of higher alchemy, not that different from the destruction of karma alchemy that you tend to described. You are just not aware of the greater implications, it seems.

However, people like RM usually discourage their followers from following that route, because it is based on the misconception of being a self and therefore those practices are only reinforcing that false sense of self and cannot lead to liberation.

JC stories are most likely embellished, but I give Him the benefit of the doubt.

My approach recognises the ego-self, but the one aware is not that.

I don't know what Patanjali says, and I'm unfamiliar with this terminology and can't tell what he means. I barely understood a line, but 3.49 sound like the essence of my blurb, though I can't tell if he's saying the opposite.

I'd say you will recognize a lot of what other meditative traditions teach in what P says. But they might not take it all the way as P does. So yeah, I think you and P are likely in agreement on verse 3.49.

[Reefs]

Feb 19, 2024 22:50:21 GMT -5 DonHelado said:

Feb 19, 2024 22:13:33 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Are you Robertk/Robertc?

Anyway, whoever you are, if you want to be taken seriously and get a direct reply, then you have to cut down on the giraffe herding and especially put down your crusader sword. Or else people here will continue to ignore you because they'll think you are a troll. 

Was that clear enough for you?

I've had some interesting exchanges with several people here; I don't feel ignored.

I don't know what "giraffe herding" means. I might know what you mean by "crusading", but who cares? It seems like there are many thousands of posts from people repeating themselves, and telling others they are wrong. Is that not one of the games? 

I don't know who Robertk or Robertc is. I thought this was all virtual, and I don't know anybody here in real life. But now I see "Zendancer" has a real-life identity. 

So you are Sree then? I thought you promised to not come back in case you should get banned. And I'm pretty sure I've explained to you giraffes and crusades before.

Alrighty then, just make sure that you actually understand the topic at hand and also address the actual points people make instead of reading things into posts that are just not there (giraffe herding) and then going to war with them following your own private agenda (crusading).

[lolly]

Feb 19, 2024 23:25:34 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Feb 19, 2024 23:08:43 GMT -5 lolly said:

JC stories are most likely embellished, but I give Him the benefit of the doubt.

My approach recognises the ego-self, but the one aware is not that.

I don't know what Patanjali says, and I'm unfamiliar with this terminology and can't tell what he means. I barely understood a line, but 3.49 sound like the essence of my blurb, though I can't tell if he's saying the opposite.

I'd say you will recognize a lot of what other meditative traditions teach in what P says. But they might not take it all the way as P does. So yeah, I think you and P are likely in agreement on verse 3.49.

I'd have to read him more widely and infer what all those words mean from the broader context, but the likelihood of me reading anything over 1000 words is close to zero.