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Post by DonHelado on Jan 19, 2024 21:43:35 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
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Post by inavalan on Jan 19, 2024 23:20:55 GMT -5
Capitalism failed for you? I'm sorry. It succeeds wildly for me. And of course the world is constantly increasing in material wealth for many years now. You're problem is you're not attracting properly. Your being attracts your life. Make your being better so you stop attracting failed capitalism and instead get rich like me. In your first post under this screen-name, you wrote that "Your being attracts your life", and that that's working for you greatly. You also explained to those that aren't successful: "You're problem is you're not attracting properly". It is like your opening post on this thread was written by a different person, who is hopeful that his well-being could be granted by a loving God, and afraid that it could be withheld by a sadistic one. Which one is you? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 20, 2024 0:20:40 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
That's a really interesting question, the kind of question I used to talk and think a lot about. The ''Conversations With God'' books address these kinds of questions. It's a question that pretty much every human must have considered. If there's a God, how could there be torture, war etc etc. One aspect that occurs to me to mention. If I look at all humans, and all human behavior. Even the absolute worst and despicable. I can still observe that love is part of what drives them. Hitler loved his country. He loved his vision. Even a psychopath loves the pleasure they experience. When we 'hate', it's because we love. Ultimately, every action expresses a love of experience, a love of self, it's just that a great many people don't know how to love in truly healthy and happy ways. People in general are hurt, traumatized and dont know how to heal. And they misunderstand some basic life principles. So their love can be twisted, perverted, narcissistic, harmful. I'm not perfect either. But yeah, because I can see love in all behavior... if I choose to look for it, I'd say Love is the foundation of the universe. I'd say God is Love. I like the Love Actually opening scene |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2024 6:11:44 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
That's a question that has vexed theologian for centuries. First you have to define 'God'. And depending on your definition you will find differing answers to that question. If we define God as All That Is, then God with form is both love and its opposite. But God without form is neither. So God is both and neither. As Ramakrishna put it: "Says God, 'I am the snake that biteth and the charmer that healeth; I am the judge that condemneth and the executioner that whippeth.' God tells the thief to go and steal, and at the same time warns the householder against the thief... God is in all men, but all men are not in God; that is why we suffer." However you define God though, it will always be one of those provisional truths. If the goal is the ultimate truth, all provisional truths, even God have to be left behind. As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 20, 2024 6:23:47 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
If we consider the Christian God, specifically God the Father, it's believed that He predestined all events. One might question whether this portrayal leans toward being sadistic or loving. The response, however, is that every action is a means for God to showcase His character to the chosen individuals. If you view God as All That Is, the concept suggests that God becomes entangled in the dream, mistakenly perceiving Himself as a distinct individual. Consequently, every action originates from this misidentification, absolving anyone of responsibility. However, achieving a certain level of clarity empowers you to influence your sphere of experience, affecting the behavior of those within it. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 20, 2024 6:27:03 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
That's a question that has vexed theologian for centuries. First you have to define 'God'. And depending on your definition you will find differing answers to that question. If we define God as All That Is, then God with form is both love and its opposite. But God without form is neither. So God is both and neither. As Ramakrishna put it: "Says God, 'I am the snake that biteth and the charmer that healeth; I am the judge that condemneth and the executioner that whippeth.' God tells the thief to go and steal, and at the same time warns the householder against the thief... God is in all men, but all men are not in God; that is why we suffer." However you define God though, it will always be one of those provisional truths. If the goal is the ultimate truth, all provisional truths, even God have to be left behind. As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. |
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Post by DonHelado on Jan 20, 2024 7:28:45 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Maybe I should have skipped the word God, since for many people it carries a lot of the mainstream preconceptions.
A few responses are theoretical, intellectual, but ignored my questions above, which I deliberately pointed in another direction, toward your own experience and feeling.
Someone quoted "Niz" (Nisargadatta). He also said things about "love" that suggest different meanings for the word. I'd have to dig up quotes, but I'm pretty sure he said love was his true nature, and not one of the extremes of worldly opposites, and it was something he felt directly; it was not theory.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 20, 2024 7:40:13 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Here's the way I look at it. "God" is not all that is. "God" is a vast creative intelligent force-being, is-being. I'll subscribe to sN's Plotinus model (which is also the Kabbalistic Tree of Life model, the 4 worlds). It's a pan entheistic model, not a pantheistic model, which "God" as All That Is would be. To keep it simple, man has 3 aspects to his being, Nous/Spirit, Soul and body. Nous/Spirit is directly linked to "God", it's a kind of God-battery with a limited life. Soul is an empty category, possibility. So this vast creative intelligence forms the universe as more of a school, not a Lila-playground. A school is not a school unless there are obstacles. So that's the why of a crappy world, we need multiple obstacles to overcome in order to grow. So the world we see was deliberately created crappy. The physical body and cultural personality is like an avatar in-this-world. The avatar collects data about the world, and it get downloaded into the Soul. One life isn't enough to learn everything there is to learn, the body will eventually give out, die. But all the info, all the experience it had and has accumulated gets downloaded into the Soul. There are teachers and guides and planners on the Soul level, and they plan out the next incarnation, another area the Soul needs living-information from, so a part of the Soul is planted in a new body in the necessary circumstances. And the whole learning process begins all over again. Rinse and repeat. Now, along the way the Soul gets more informed and grows more and more. Eventually, the Soul makes contact with the cultural-personality of a particular incarnation, the ideal is for the Soul to take-over and live directly through the body. This is through the building of the Antahkarana, the rainbow bridge. The cultural-personality is not so willing to do that, submit, and actually fights-against the Soul coming on the scene. But, it's possible for the cultural-personality to see its real role, and the avatar yields to the wishes of the Soul, the Soul becomes the controller (through the Antahkarana, a link is established, a "phone" line). Then the real spiritual journey begins. The Soul's possibilities are actualized, the empty category gets filled, this is called transcendence in the Plotinus model. That's the barest outline, but it explains both ends of your spectrum-question. How can a good God form a nasty world, with terrorists and pedophiles and poverty and hunger and suffering? We need contrast to grow. We need to be forced to make real decisions in the present moment, existential decisions. This world presents us with those decisions. People can change, when they touch their Soul which touches their Nous/Spirit which is in direct contact with the vast creative intelligence. Life is serious business. The biggest obstacle is our own self, the cultural-personality, it's where the rubber meets the road. It's basically a kind of tool, an avatar in-the-world. So, the downward emanation of Plotinus, is "God" diluting Himself/Herself ("God" doesn't have gender). Man's being follows this dilution, is why there are nasty people in this world. The goal is the return path back to "God", becoming one with "God". This is done via making the transcendent connection, back, upward. The cultural-personality-avatar links to Soul, which links to Nous/Spirit, which links to "God". Then, the temporary-battery is no longer required, there is a direct link. The manifest world is 'run' by the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy. Every individuation has to overcome entropy, at some point in time. That is done by creating the upward links back to the vast creative intelligence. We have zero power and cannot *do* on the downward path of emanation, we are caught in the downward flow. The path back upward, begins with seeing our situation, seeing and not being able to do anything. The downward path is passive. The upward path actually goes-against the downward path. This is the caduceus, the crossing paths (ida, pingala and sushumna in the body and the finer bodies). The upward path is necessarily active, like a salmon going upstream to spawn. The downward path is classical physics. The upward path is quantum physics. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 20, 2024 7:46:16 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Another acid test. Only a fool tries to answer this one. Clever. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 20, 2024 7:51:27 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Another acid test. Only a fool tries to answer this one. Clever.  |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 20, 2024 9:24:45 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
Yes, I've felt that, but what was felt, or grokked, can't be communicated. Virtually every human who has ever directly apprehended the Infinite has made the same claim. |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 20, 2024 9:31:36 GMT -5
That's a question that has vexed theologian for centuries. First you have to define 'God'. And depending on your definition you will find differing answers to that question. If we define God as All That Is, then God with form is both love and its opposite. But God without form is neither. So God is both and neither. As Ramakrishna put it: "Says God, 'I am the snake that biteth and the charmer that healeth; I am the judge that condemneth and the executioner that whippeth.' God tells the thief to go and steal, and at the same time warns the householder against the thief... God is in all men, but all men are not in God; that is why we suffer." However you define God though, it will always be one of those provisional truths. If the goal is the ultimate truth, all provisional truths, even God have to be left behind. As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. That's true, but Ramakrishna was using those words to say that all men are not aware of what the word "God" points to. |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 20, 2024 9:34:42 GMT -5
It's been said that God is Love, or that the foundation of the universe is Love. Have you ever felt this directly, or awakened to such a reality? What did it feel like?
Looking at the world, and the way people are treated by powers that seem beyond their control, one could decide that God (or "Reality") is sadistic, or psychopathic.
That's a really interesting question, the kind of question I used to talk and think a lot about. The ''Conversations With God'' books address these kinds of questions. It's a question that pretty much every human must have considered. If there's a God, how could there be torture, war etc etc. One aspect that occurs to me to mention. If I look at all humans, and all human behavior. Even the absolute worst and despicable. I can still observe that love is part of what drives them. Hitler loved his country. He loved his vision. Even a psychopath loves the pleasure they experience. When we 'hate', it's because we love. Ultimately, every action expresses a love of experience, a love of self, it's just that a great many people don't know how to love in truly healthy and happy ways. People in general are hurt, traumatized and dont know how to heal. And they misunderstand some basic life principles. So their love can be twisted, perverted, narcissistic, harmful. I'm not perfect either. But yeah, because I can see love in all behavior... if I choose to look for it, I'd say Love is the foundation of the universe. I'd say God is Love. I like the Love Actually opening scene If that opening scene spontaneously brings tears to one's eyes, then there's some degree of understanding regarding what donhelado asked about.  |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 20, 2024 10:24:43 GMT -5
Two questions for Sree IceCream. Loaded of of course. No, three questions.
1. Can you experience what you are?
2. How can you expect perfection to be otherwise?
3. Can a peace that surpasses understanding be understood?
It's a bit like asking "who am I"? There is no answer that is adequate.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 20, 2024 11:11:24 GMT -5
That's a question that has vexed theologian for centuries. First you have to define 'God'. And depending on your definition you will find differing answers to that question. If we define God as All That Is, then God with form is both love and its opposite. But God without form is neither. So God is both and neither. As Ramakrishna put it: "Says God, 'I am the snake that biteth and the charmer that healeth; I am the judge that condemneth and the executioner that whippeth.' God tells the thief to go and steal, and at the same time warns the householder against the thief... God is in all men, but all men are not in God; that is why we suffer." However you define God though, it will always be one of those provisional truths. If the goal is the ultimate truth, all provisional truths, even God have to be left behind. As Niz put it: "I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing contains me... What can God give me, or take away from me? What is mine is mine and was mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very tiny little thing, a speck — the sense 'I am', the fact of being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me. The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's. God is my devotee and did all this for me." WRONG! We are not separate from him. God himself is experiencing as a human. When he perceives reality or thought, that appearance makes him feel like he is an individual. You misunderstood the quote. What he means is that God is in all men but not all men are consciously aware of that fact. |
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