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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 19:43:42 GMT -5
We are always aware otherwise we couldn't carry out any tasks. So what do you want to be aware of? Do you want to be aware of being aware or do you want to be aware of a task that was previously unconscious but you want to make it conscious. They are two different things. is not completely true, as the OP is getting at and as zazeniac understands. The [OP] question basically is, do you know to what extend you operate merely through the functions? ZD is clear, we virtually don't need the abstracting mind (for him anyway). That leaves emotions/feelings (the "good" emotions are mostly *organic* [installed at the ~factory~], the *nasty* ones are learned-copied, basically useless, worse than useless), bodily-actions, and sensations, they are also *factory installed*. Why don't you answer my question? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 18, 2023 20:25:04 GMT -5
This is not completely true, as the OP is getting at and as zazeniac understands. The [OP] question basically is, do you know to what extend you operate merely through the functions? ZD is clear, we virtually don't need the abstracting mind (for him anyway). That leaves emotions/feelings (the "good" emotions are mostly *organic* [installed at the ~factory~], the *nasty* ones are learned-copied, basically useless, worse than useless), bodily-actions, and sensations, they are also *factory installed*. Why don't you answer my question? First you see when you are operating unconsciously (merely through the functions), then you may be able to be conscious of the operating. If you merely think about it, try to ~think it through~, it's still unconscious processing. Awareness of awareness would be a further step. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 18, 2023 20:32:32 GMT -5
I'm interested in superseding this normal functioning. You can be aware while carrying out a lot of tasks unconsciously. This should be right down your alley. It's not about thinking, it's not about memory. The conception of ‘ordinary’ is somewhat arbitrary, but I’ll give it a shot. So, ordinarily, the first 2-3+ times a certain task is done (e.g., cleaning a bird cage), there’s a decent bit of conscious effort and abstraction involved while learning the new context. Each time, certain actions/reasoning/assumptions ‘transfer’ to an automated ability, freeing up conscious attention for the ‘better’ or the more efficient. After the Nth or so time, one can slip into flow and do it practically, even artfully, without effort. Zen gardens are often found at a zendo for several reasons, and the acts involved can become very pleasing in themselves, sometimes to the level of an art form. Flow states are like that, miraculous even. To observe them and/or the outcomes can inspire to the depths of perception. Translations of Chaung-Tzu’s The Dexterous Butcher might further exemplify the principle. The butcher has obviously superseded normal butchering. And he understood there is no writing a manual, the Tao of Butchering. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 20:41:12 GMT -5
Why don't you answer my question? First you see when you are operating unconsciously (merely through the functions), then you may be able to be conscious of the operating. If you merely think about it, try to ~think it through~, it's still unconscious processing. Awareness of awareness would be a further step. That is now clear
If you want to try and become conscious of what is normally autopilot unconscious then this is definitely not up my alley. There is no way on earth I would ever suggest such a practice.
But to be aware of awareness..... That's a different matter. In fact I made a YouTube video on precisely this subject which refutes your idea of making unconscious actions conscious as being the incorrect interpretation of mindfulness.
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Post by inavalan on Dec 18, 2023 21:30:52 GMT -5
The conception of ‘ordinary’ is somewhat arbitrary, but I’ll give it a shot. So, ordinarily, the first 2-3+ times a certain task is done (e.g., cleaning a bird cage), there’s a decent bit of conscious effort and abstraction involved while learning the new context. Each time, certain actions/reasoning/assumptions ‘transfer’ to an automated ability, freeing up conscious attention for the ‘better’ or the more efficient. After the Nth or so time, one can slip into flow and do it practically, even artfully, without effort. Zen gardens are often found at a zendo for several reasons, and the acts involved can become very pleasing in themselves, sometimes to the level of an art form. Flow states are like that, miraculous even. To observe them and/or the outcomes can inspire to the depths of perception. Translations of Chaung-Tzu’s The Dexterous Butcher might further exemplify the principle. ! From the 1st translation: - "Nowadays I no longer see it with the eye; I merely apprehend it with the soul. My sense-organs are in abeyance, but my soul still works."
I guess you agree with the king's conclusion: - “Excellent,” said the king of Wei. “This interview with the carver Ting has taught me how man’s vital forces can be conserved.”
I think that the butcher described something different: getting into the optimum state of consciousness for the task at hand. Also, the purpose is not to conserve vital forces: but to do the task better by adjusting the focus of your awareness. Your sense-organs anchor your awareness' reference into the physical-reality. By putting them in abeyance (quiescence, suspension), your awareness detaches, frees itself from that reference, which allows your inner perceptions ( soul) to take over. You can achieve that optimum state through practice and luck after a long time, but you can also achieve that much faster working directly with your subconscious. "traduttore, traditore" ... - “Excellent,” said the king of Wei. “This interview with the carver Ting has taught me how man’s vital forces can be conserved.”
Translated by Arthur Waley (Three Ways of Thought in Ancient China, 1939) - “Bravo!” cried the Prince. “From the words of this cook I have learnt how to take care of my life.”
Translated by Lin Yutang (The Wisdom of Laotse, 1948) - “Excellent!” said Lord Wen-hui. “I have heard the words of Cook Ting and learned how to care for life!”
Translated by Burton Watson (Chuang Tzu: The Basic Writings, 1964) - Prince Wan Hui said, | “This is it! My cook has shown me | How I ought to live | My own life!”
Translated by Thomas Merton (The Way of Chuang Tzu, 1965) - “Excellent!” said Lord Wen-hui. “Listening to the words of Cook Ting, I have learned from them how to nurture life.”
Translated by A.C. Graham (Chuang-tzu: The Seven Inner Chapters and Other Writings from the Book Chuang-tzu, 1981) - Lord Wen-hui said, “That’s good, indeed! Ting the cook has shown me how to find the Way to nurture life.”
Translated by Sam Hamill and J.P. Seaton (The Essential Chuang Tzu, 1998)
- 文惠君曰：「善哉！吾聞庖丁之言，得養生焉。」
得 de structural particle: used after a verb (or adjective as main verb), linking it to following phrase indicating effect, degree, possibility etc
养生 yǎngshēng to maintain good health; to raise a child or animal; curing (of concrete etc)
。养 yǎng to raise (animals); to bring up (children); to keep (pets); to support; to give birth
。生 shēng to be born; to give birth; life; to grow; raw; uncooked; student
焉 yān where; how
- The ruler Wen Hui said, 'Excellent! I have heard the words of my cook, and learned from them the nourishment of (our) life.'
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 18, 2023 22:00:39 GMT -5
The conception of ‘ordinary’ is somewhat arbitrary, but I’ll give it a shot. So, ordinarily, the first 2-3+ times a certain task is done (e.g., cleaning a bird cage), there’s a decent bit of conscious effort and abstraction involved while learning the new context. Each time, certain actions/reasoning/assumptions ‘transfer’ to an automated ability, freeing up conscious attention for the ‘better’ or the more efficient. After the Nth or so time, one can slip into flow and do it practically, even artfully, without effort. Zen gardens are often found at a zendo for several reasons, and the acts involved can become very pleasing in themselves, sometimes to the level of an art form. Flow states are like that, miraculous even. To observe them and/or the outcomes can inspire to the depths of perception. Translations of Chaung-Tzu’s The Dexterous Butcher might further exemplify the principle. ! From the 1st translation: - "Nowadays I no longer see it with the eye; I merely apprehend it with the soul. My sense-organs are in abeyance, but my soul still works."
I guess you agree with the king's conclusion: - “Excellent,” said the king of Wei. “This interview with the carver Ting has taught me how man’s vital forces can be conserved.”
I think that the butcher described something different: getting into the optimum state of consciousness for the task at hand. Also, the purpose is not to conserve vital forces: but to do the task better by adjusting the focus of your awareness. Your sense-organs anchor your awareness' reference into the physical-reality. By putting them in abeyance (quiescence, suspension), your awareness detaches, frees itself from that reference, which allows your inner perceptions ( soul) to take over. You can achieve that optimum state through practice and luck after a long time, but you can also achieve that much faster working directly with your subconscious. I was communicating with SDP in a way that tuned into his focus on practicality, as he seems to despise all concepts discussed working toward non-dual realization.  The king's conclusion is more about what he was searching for, and thus gathered from the Butcher's actions and words. Cultivating chi and working with kundalini typically seem to be focused on what the mind is trying to achieve, whatever that might be. The Chinese are all about practical everyday application, while the Hindu-oriented studies get a little more, shall we say, otherworldly or mystical. I'm not really going to go into all of that, other than it has a feel of being a more energetic aspect of awareness/consciousness, one might say. And that's fine. The Butcher is a "lover of the Tao", which seems a little more aligned with consciousness, so yes, I agree with your general idea of adjusting the focus of your awareness and allowing for the concepts you spoke of to take over. The butcher had been doing the job for 19+ years, so there is a bit of memory/learning involved in the substrate of his action, but he also had a ontological bent to him in how he expressed the actions, almost as if they mirrored an interior direction and sense of cutting through.... effortlessly, unimpeded... the Tao. I read into the language of the translations (not knowing the depth of what the originals actually said or the translators awareness of that), to look for nuances or clues that might give deeper insight. They're definitely there, and what the Butcher (an everyday Joe,,, not a king, philosopher, or priest) was alluding to through his talk is of a higher order than just being mindful or well-practiced at the art of butchery. Rather than get bogged down in sticky ontological points, I left it at that. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 18, 2023 22:02:51 GMT -5
The conception of ‘ordinary’ is somewhat arbitrary, but I’ll give it a shot. So, ordinarily, the first 2-3+ times a certain task is done (e.g., cleaning a bird cage), there’s a decent bit of conscious effort and abstraction involved while learning the new context. Each time, certain actions/reasoning/assumptions ‘transfer’ to an automated ability, freeing up conscious attention for the ‘better’ or the more efficient. After the Nth or so time, one can slip into flow and do it practically, even artfully, without effort. Zen gardens are often found at a zendo for several reasons, and the acts involved can become very pleasing in themselves, sometimes to the level of an art form. Flow states are like that, miraculous even. To observe them and/or the outcomes can inspire to the depths of perception. Translations of Chaung-Tzu’s The Dexterous Butcher might further exemplify the principle. The butcher has obviously superseded normal butchering. And he understood there is no writing a manual, the Tao of Butchering. Dayum, I failed another assignment.  |
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2023 8:24:09 GMT -5
The conception of ‘ordinary’ is somewhat arbitrary, but I’ll give it a shot. So, ordinarily, the first 2-3+ times a certain task is done (e.g., cleaning a bird cage), there’s a decent bit of conscious effort and abstraction involved while learning the new context. Each time, certain actions/reasoning/assumptions ‘transfer’ to an automated ability, freeing up conscious attention for the ‘better’ or the more efficient. After the Nth or so time, one can slip into flow and do it practically, even artfully, without effort. Zen gardens are often found at a zendo for several reasons, and the acts involved can become very pleasing in themselves, sometimes to the level of an art form. Flow states are like that, miraculous even. To observe them and/or the outcomes can inspire to the depths of perception. Translations of Chaung-Tzu’s The Dexterous Butcher might further exemplify the principle. The butcher has obviously superseded normal butchering. And he understood there is no writing a manual, the Tao of Butchering. The butcher has superseded normal butchering because there's no separation between the butcher and what's being butchered. The butcher has disappeared as a separate volitional entity into the act of butchering. This is what SN was referring to as a state of "flow." The issue involves the sense of a separate "me" doing whatever is done. As long as there's a "me" trying to be attentive, that's a movement in the wrong direction. Disappearing into the activity of life is what the butcher story is pointing to. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2023 8:38:12 GMT -5
The butcher has obviously superseded normal butchering. And he understood there is no writing a manual, the Tao of Butchering. The butcher has superseded normal butchering because there's no separation between the butcher and what's being butchered. The butcher has disappeared as a separate volitional entity into the act of butchering. This is what SN was referring to as a state of "flow." The issue involves the sense of a separate "me" doing whatever is done. As long as there's a "me" trying to be attentive, that's a movement in the wrong direction. Disappearing into the activity of life is what the butcher story is pointing to. Agree. But a key component also is the acquisition of the skill. This is explored in the story of the wheelwright. Up at the top of the hall Outstanding Duke is reading a book. Down at the bottom of the hall Wheelwright Flatten is hewing a wheel. Putting his mallet and chisel aside he goes up and puts a question to Outstanding Duke, saying: I venture to ask, whose words is Your Grace reading? The duke says: The words of a sage. The wheelwright says: Is this sage alive? The duke says: Dead. The wheelwright says: So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? Outstanding Duke says: When the Lonely One reads a book, who’s the wheelwright to have an opinion! If you can explain yourself, the Lonely One will allow it. If not, you die. Wheelwright Flatten says: Your subject sees it in terms of his work. When hewing a wheel, if you’re too slow it’s easy going but the wheel ends up wobbly. If you’re too fast it’s a hard slog and the ends don’t meet. Neither too slow nor too fast— Your subject feels it in his hands and responds from his heart. He can’t put it into words. There’s a knack to it, in the spaces. He can’t impart it to his son and his son isn’t able to receive it from him, which is why your subject is seventy years old and still making wheels. The ancients, along with what they couldn’t teach, are dead. So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And this is also why there are no Tao of Butchering manuals, and no Tao of wheelwright manuals. Without thousands of hours of practice, Michael Jordan will tell you, no flow, and no NBA Rings. Seth Curry will tell you the same, he shoots exactly like his Dad did, he got an early start. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2023 9:02:48 GMT -5
Thanks! From the 1st translation: - "Nowadays I no longer see it with the eye; I merely apprehend it with the soul. My sense-organs are in abeyance, but my soul still works."
I guess you agree with the king's conclusion: - “Excellent,” said the king of Wei. “This interview with the carver Ting has taught me how man’s vital forces can be conserved.”
I think that the butcher described something different: getting into the optimum state of consciousness for the task at hand. Also, the purpose is not to conserve vital forces: but to do the task better by adjusting the focus of your awareness. Your sense-organs anchor your awareness' reference into the physical-reality. By putting them in abeyance (quiescence, suspension), your awareness detaches, frees itself from that reference, which allows your inner perceptions ( soul) to take over. You can achieve that optimum state through practice and luck after a long time, but you can also achieve that much faster working directly with your subconscious. I was communicating with SDP in a way that tuned into his focus on practicality, as he seems to despise all concepts discussed working toward non-dual realization. The king's conclusion is more about what he was searching for, and thus gathered from the Butcher's actions and words. Cultivating chi and working with kundalini typically seem to be focused on what the mind is trying to achieve, whatever that might be. The Chinese are all about practical everyday application, while the Hindu-oriented studies get a little more, shall we say, otherworldly or mystical. I'm not really going to go into all of that, other than it has a feel of being a more energetic aspect of awareness/consciousness, one might say. And that's fine. The Butcher is a "lover of the Tao", which seems a little more aligned with consciousness, so yes, I agree with your general idea of adjusting the focus of your awareness and allowing for the concepts you spoke of to take over. The butcher had been doing the job for 19+ years, so there is a bit of memory/learning involved in the substrate of his action, but he also had a ontological bent to him in how he expressed the actions, almost as if they mirrored an interior direction and sense of cutting through.... effortlessly, unimpeded... the Tao. I read into the language of the translations (not knowing the depth of what the originals actually said or the translators awareness of that), to look for nuances or clues that might give deeper insight. They're definitely there, and what the Butcher (an everyday Joe,,, not a king, philosopher, or priest) was alluding to through his talk is of a higher order than just being mindful or well-practiced at the art of butchery. Rather than get bogged down in sticky ontological points, I left it at that. is just not true. Despise is a very strong word. I disagree that it is acausal. (Michael Jordan will tell you he could never have achieved flow and never have his NBA Rings, without thousands of hours of practice. But thousands of hours of practice does not guarantee an NBA Ring. Just ask Karl Malone or Pistol Pete Maravich). I disagree that it's the be-all and end-all. If I'm crossing a 100 foot chasm, and am short 5 foot of having a 100 foot rope, why would I despise the 95 feet I have? SR is not in my vocabulary, why would I despise it? |
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2023 9:06:39 GMT -5
The butcher has superseded normal butchering because there's no separation between the butcher and what's being butchered. The butcher has disappeared as a separate volitional entity into the act of butchering. This is what SN was referring to as a state of "flow." The issue involves the sense of a separate "me" doing whatever is done. As long as there's a "me" trying to be attentive, that's a movement in the wrong direction. Disappearing into the activity of life is what the butcher story is pointing to. Agree. But a key component also is the acquisition of the skill. This is explored in the story of the wheelwright. Up at the top of the hall Outstanding Duke is reading a book. Down at the bottom of the hall Wheelwright Flatten is hewing a wheel. Putting his mallet and chisel aside he goes up and puts a question to Outstanding Duke, saying: I venture to ask, whose words is Your Grace reading? The duke says: The words of a sage. The wheelwright says: Is this sage alive? The duke says: Dead. The wheelwright says: So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? Outstanding Duke says: When the Lonely One reads a book, who’s the wheelwright to have an opinion! If you can explain yourself, the Lonely One will allow it. If not, you die. Wheelwright Flatten says: Your subject sees it in terms of his work. When hewing a wheel, if you’re too slow it’s easy going but the wheel ends up wobbly. If you’re too fast it’s a hard slog and the ends don’t meet. Neither too slow nor too fast— Your subject feels it in his hands and responds from his heart. He can’t put it into words. There’s a knack to it, in the spaces. He can’t impart it to his son and his son isn’t able to receive it from him, which is why your subject is seventy years old and still making wheels. The ancients, along with what they couldn’t teach, are dead. So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And this is also why there are no Tao of Butchering manuals, and no Tao of wheelwright manuals. Without thousands of hours of practice, Michael Jordan will tell you, no flow, and no NBA Rings. Seth Curry will tell you the same, he shoots exactly like his Dad did, he got an early start. Cool video! Yes, obviously a well-developed skill requires many hours of repetitive action, but what's being pointed to is everyday life without a "me" doing anything. Is it possible to just be without the sense of being a SVP? THIS includes the sense of being a SVP, but the word "flow" points to THIS without the sense of being a SVP. "Wei wu Wei" points to the same thing--action without an actor. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 19, 2023 9:32:43 GMT -5
I was communicating with SDP in a way that tuned into his focus on practicality, as he seems to despise all concepts discussed working toward non-dual realization. The king's conclusion is more about what he was searching for, and thus gathered from the Butcher's actions and words. Cultivating chi and working with kundalini typically seem to be focused on what the mind is trying to achieve, whatever that might be. The Chinese are all about practical everyday application, while the Hindu-oriented studies get a little more, shall we say, otherworldly or mystical. I'm not really going to go into all of that, other than it has a feel of being a more energetic aspect of awareness/consciousness, one might say. And that's fine. The Butcher is a "lover of the Tao", which seems a little more aligned with consciousness, so yes, I agree with your general idea of adjusting the focus of your awareness and allowing for the concepts you spoke of to take over. The butcher had been doing the job for 19+ years, so there is a bit of memory/learning involved in the substrate of his action, but he also had a ontological bent to him in how he expressed the actions, almost as if they mirrored an interior direction and sense of cutting through.... effortlessly, unimpeded... the Tao. I read into the language of the translations (not knowing the depth of what the originals actually said or the translators awareness of that), to look for nuances or clues that might give deeper insight. They're definitely there, and what the Butcher (an everyday Joe,,, not a king, philosopher, or priest) was alluding to through his talk is of a higher order than just being mindful or well-practiced at the art of butchery. Rather than get bogged down in sticky ontological points, I left it at that. is just not true. Despise is a very strong word. I disagree that it is acausal. (Michael Jordan will tell you he could never have achieved flow and never have his NBA Rings, without thousands of hours of practice. But thousands of hours of practice does not guarantee an NBA Ring. Just ask Karl Malone or Pistol Pete Maravich). I disagree that it's the be-all and end-all. If I'm crossing a 100 foot chasm, and am short 5 foot of having a 100 foot rope, why would I despise the 95 feet I have? SR is not in my vocabulary, why would I despise it? Did you notice the ? But yes, it is a strong word, and you don't show it to that extent via the words on the screen. The disagreement is with the mind's interpretation, but seem content enough with it. All Good, brotha. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2023 11:43:01 GMT -5
(Part of) the point of the butcher is that intense focus was required. Tai Chi Chuan cannot be done mechanically. Some moves are exactly the same, but in one case ends differently than in a later case. So if you ~don't know where you are~, you will get lost. All oxen are generally the same, but not exactly. So the Taoist butcher must have intense focus to always find the empty places between joints and ligaments and muscle. Likewise, Seth Curry has to perfectly calculate dozens of different relationships between his body and body-parts and the goal, via sensation. In practice he has trained his body to do most of this unconsciously. Most, but not all. Even in flow, with the butcher, and Seth, this intense focus is necessary. So the key, awareness. The person, is an obstruction. In golf, this is called the yips. In baseball, a batting slump.
In an actual game the factors are multiplied exponentially,⁶ as you have a defender, or two, sometimes three. And in hockey, Wayne Gretzky exemplified this as: You skate to where the puck is going to be (IOW, never where it is).
"How could practice be limited to this place? All concrete things possess original practice as their original features; it is beyond comprehension. Remember, even the countless buddhas in ten directions, tried with all their power and all their Buddha-wisdom to calculate or comprehend the merit of one person's Zazen, they could not even get close". Zen Master Dogen
"It's impossible for us to understand the meaning of zazen by thinking about it". Gudo Nishijima
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2023 12:41:20 GMT -5
OK. I confess I am reading IRT a new book, at Wendy's. (Concerning one of my pet peeves with ZD). This was a response to a question.
"Human beings have the ability to think, to reason. They can consider many problems and act upon their conclusions with relative freedom. Therefore, humans beings have the freedom to choose the wrong way; they have the power to act against the natural rule or standard state of the Universe, to willfully upset the natural balance. Since they have that freedom, I think they also have an obligation to get back on the right track, to regain the state of natural balance and follow the rule of the Universe. Stones, pebbles, and tiles do not have any intellectual ability. Therefore they are always in balance. This is the situation. Human beings are very great. They are superior to other animals and things in the Universe. But because of that greatness or superiority, they also have a great obligation; that us, to follow the right way -to be balanced. That's why we should practice zazen". Gudo Nishijima, A Talk on Pursuing the Truth, a commentary on Bendowa, the first chapter in Dogen's book Shobogenzo, 2023
I've been reading some Gudo for about ten years. I consider him in the top five of modern-day-Zen Buddhists, probably top 2 or 3.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2023 13:53:49 GMT -5
OK. I confess I am reading IRT a new book, at Wendy's. (Concerning one of my pet peeves with ZD). This was a response to a question. "Human beings have the ability to think, to reason. They can consider many problems and act upon their conclusions with relative freedom. Therefore, humans beings have the freedom to choose the wrong way; they have the power to act against the natural rule or standard state of the Universe, to willfully upset the natural balance. Since they have that freedom, I think they also have an obligation to get back on the right track, to regain the state of natural balance and follow the rule of the Universe. Stones, pebbles, and tiles do not have any intellectual ability. Therefore they are always in balance. This is the situation. Human beings are very great. They are superior to other animals and things in the Universe. But because of that greatness or superiority, they also have a great obligation; that us, to follow the right way -to be balanced. That's why we should practice zazen". Gudo Nishijima, A Talk on Pursuing the Truth, a commentary on Bendowa, the first chapter in Dogen's book Shobogenzo, 2023 I've been reading some Gudo for about ten years. I consider him in the top five of modern-day-Zen Buddhists, probably top 2 or 3. My response to this kind of advice is always the same: you can't practice your way to being what you already are--THIS--the undivided and infinite field of all being. How THIS becomes realized is a mystery, and everyone I've met who has discovered THIS has said that the discovery was an occurrence of grace. In fact, every realization that occurs is a mystery. Some people who practice zazen discover THIS, but the vast majority do not. By contrast, some rare people discover THIS who aren't even seeking anything. All we can say with any degree of certainty is that the discovery of THIS seems to be strongly correlated with a powerful need to understand "what's going on?" and a willingness to stay in a not-knowing state of mind until realizations occur that inform the intellect about whatever one wants to know. Prior to meeting Advaita sages I considered formal meditation and focused attention as the only logical path to awakening, but they challenged that idea, and as I reflected about the matter, I realized that something else was going on that practice, alone, could not explain. If it was as simple as focusing attention upon something, or upon nothing, then most Zen students would wake up, but it's clear that most of them do not. I suspect that the key factor is acting WITHOUT self-referential reflection, and this is why the clearest Zen Master I ever met used to tell his students, "Just do it!" What he was pointing to was acting without the idea of a "me" doing anything. Imagine someone who stays focused on whatever is happening without the idea of a "me" at the center of it. This is what Zen teachers are pointing to when they talk about "meditating with no gaining idea." If one is pursuing any kind of practice in hopes of getting something or reaching a higher state, it means that there is still the idea of a "me" at the center of the activity. This is also what is meant by "surrender." At some point one realizes that there is nothing "I" can do to make "me" wake up. The idea of "me" is the underlying fundamental problem. IOW, as long as there is a "me" doing something in order to get something, the game of imagining separation will continue, and it doesn't matter what form the doing takes. |
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