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Post by zendancer on Dec 7, 2023 18:38:42 GMT -5
youtu.be/CcGCACqeQuQThis comes as close to helping one feel what's being pointed to regarding non-duality as anything I've seen.
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Post by andrew on Dec 7, 2023 20:24:41 GMT -5
That was lovely.
I'm a big fan of his expression too, even if I didn't 'grok' his message, I think I'd still enjoy his manner of speaking....'the catastrophic fact of being born' lol
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Post by zendancer on Dec 7, 2023 21:16:23 GMT -5
That was lovely. I'm a big fan of his expression too, even if I didn't 'grok' his message, I think I'd still enjoy his manner of speaking....'the catastrophic fact of being born' lol Yes, Watts did have a way with words, to say the least, and I thought the film-makers did a great job of adding appropriate images and sound to his words. |
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Post by inavalan on Dec 8, 2023 0:32:40 GMT -5
Probably the most detrimental in Watts' presentation is his conclusion derived from his analogy between our level of reality and the level of the blood stream.
He opines that intervening, taking sides in the "one hell of a fight" (~6:20) that goes on at blood stream level, would be fatal because the health of the organism depends on having that battle between those microorganisms (nah ...). He concludes that what is conflict at one level of magnification is needed for the harmony at a higher level, and suggests that it might be the case with all our problems too: 'conflicts, neuroses, sickness, political outrages, wars, tortures'. Watts invites the acceptance of those negative aspects in our lives in order to not disturb a hypothetical higher harmony. Detrimental advice.
The part about space and time connecting things, events is another weak speculation.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 8, 2023 9:00:59 GMT -5
Probably the most detrimental in Watts' presentation is his conclusion derived from his analogy between our level of reality and the level of the blood stream. He opines that intervening, taking sides in the "one hell of a fight" (~6:20) that goes on at blood stream level, would be fatal because the health of the organism depends on having that battle between those microorganisms (nah ...). He concludes that what is conflict at one level of magnification is needed for the harmony at a higher level, and suggests that it might be the case with all our problems too: 'conflicts, neuroses, sickness, political outrages, wars, tortures'. Watts invites the acceptance of those negative aspects in our lives in order to not disturb a hypothetical higher harmony. Detrimental advice. The part about space and time connecting things, events is another weak speculation. When I watched the video the following came to mind, which relates directly to your comment. Gurdjieff has an intricate cosmology I won't go into fully, but, basically, because of entropy (the Merciless Heropass, time) the Absolute found it necessary to form the whole Megalacosmos upon the principle of Trogoautoegocrat. The word means I eat myself, it's the principle of reciprocal maintenance. In the whole of the universe everything feeds upon something else, so everything feeds upon something else, and feeds something else, in a cosmic chain of energy exchange. Gurdjieff said in the past war was even necessary for cosmic purposes, death releases the energy of the organism and at times more deaths were needed for cosmic growth, so Great Nature caused wars (the deaths of animals also, but animals are not so easily manipulated. But at a certain time, animal sacrifices resulted in too many deaths which likewise caused a disruption in the cosmic flow, a problem that had to be solved, part of the story). We know from other videos that Watts read some Gurdjieff, so I don't know if he used this idea in the video, but it fits. Death on a small scale, individual people, were needed to maintain the balance of the whole, a larger purpose. Now, Gurdjieff also wrote that Earth has gotten past the cosmic reasons for war, and now this mass insanity is all on mankind. But the principle does hold, Watts is right. I don't recall, but this could even be a *close to quoting* Gurdjieff. Wouldn't that be ironic.  If I were a betting man I'd bet $100.00 on this being the case, where Watts got the idea. He's not giving advice. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 9, 2023 11:54:47 GMT -5
youtu.be/CcGCACqeQuQThis comes as close to helping one feel what's being pointed to regarding non-duality as anything I've seen. This one reminds me of Carl Sagan. Great vid, thanks ZD. Alan saw very clearly all those decades ago the two dominant cultural core existential notions, rational scientific and legacy Christian. The scientific core is essentially a subconscious internalization that people take for granted .. the "me", and "the world". Explains why there are so many people on anti-anxiety meds these days. Carl put me in a state of awed wonder. As you suggest, it was a sort of hint as to the infinite. But of course there is a coldness to what the intellect can reveal and discern. A question unasked. Alan doesn't even bother appealing to the heart, but instead goes straight for the bones. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 9, 2023 12:01:22 GMT -5
Probably the most detrimental in Watts' presentation is his conclusion derived from his analogy between our level of reality and the level of the blood stream. He opines that intervening, taking sides in the "one hell of a fight" (~6:20) that goes on at blood stream level, would be fatal because the health of the organism depends on having that battle between those microorganisms (nah ...). He concludes that what is conflict at one level of magnification is needed for the harmony at a higher level, and suggests that it might be the case with all our problems too: 'conflicts, neuroses, sickness, political outrages, wars, tortures'. Watts invites the acceptance of those negative aspects in our lives in order to not disturb a hypothetical higher harmony. Detrimental advice. The part about space and time connecting things, events is another weak speculation. When I watched the video the following came to mind, which relates directly to your comment. Gurdjieff has an intricate cosmology I won't go into fully, but, basically, because of entropy (the Merciless Heropass, time) the Absolute found it necessary to form the whole Megalacosmos upon the principle of Trogoautoegocrat. The word means I eat myself, it's the principle of reciprocal maintenance. In the whole of the universe everything feeds upon something else, so everything feeds upon something else, and feeds something else, in a cosmic chain of energy exchange. Gurdjieff said in the past war was even necessary for cosmic purposes, death releases the energy of the organism and at times more deaths were needed for cosmic growth, so Great Nature caused wars (the deaths of animals also, but animals are not so easily manipulated. But at a certain time, animal sacrifices resulted in too many deaths which likewise caused a disruption in the cosmic flow, a problem that had to be solved, part of the story). We know from other videos that Watts read some Gurdjieff, so I don't know if he used this idea in the video, but it fits. Death on a small scale, individual people, were needed to maintain the balance of the whole, a larger purpose. Now, Gurdjieff also wrote that Earth has gotten past the cosmic reasons for war, and now this mass insanity is all on mankind. But the principle does hold, Watts is right. I don't recall, but this could even be a *close to quoting* Gurdjieff. Wouldn't that be ironic. If I were a betting man I'd bet $100.00 on this being the case, where Watts got the idea. He's not giving advice. As previously confirmed by ourboros, the Buddha is rumored to have said "the word is on fire". |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 9, 2023 12:35:43 GMT -5
When I watched the video the following came to mind, which relates directly to your comment. Gurdjieff has an intricate cosmology I won't go into fully, but, basically, because of entropy (the Merciless Heropass, time) the Absolute found it necessary to form the whole Megalacosmos upon the principle of Trogoautoegocrat. The word means I eat myself, it's the principle of reciprocal maintenance. In the whole of the universe everything feeds upon something else, so everything feeds upon something else, and feeds something else, in a cosmic chain of energy exchange. Gurdjieff said in the past war was even necessary for cosmic purposes, death releases the energy of the organism and at times more deaths were needed for cosmic growth, so Great Nature caused wars (the deaths of animals also, but animals are not so easily manipulated. But at a certain time, animal sacrifices resulted in too many deaths which likewise caused a disruption in the cosmic flow, a problem that had to be solved, part of the story). We know from other videos that Watts read some Gurdjieff, so I don't know if he used this idea in the video, but it fits. Death on a small scale, individual people, were needed to maintain the balance of the whole, a larger purpose. Now, Gurdjieff also wrote that Earth has gotten past the cosmic reasons for war, and now this mass insanity is all on mankind. But the principle does hold, Watts is right. I don't recall, but this could even be a *close to quoting* Gurdjieff. Wouldn't that be ironic. If I were a betting man I'd bet $100.00 on this being the case, where Watts got the idea. He's not giving advice. As previously confirmed by ourboros, the Buddha is rumored to have said "the wor ld is on fire". How does that relate to inavalan's post, his point? ....and I believe he said your house is on fire, a little more-immediate problem. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 9, 2023 13:45:02 GMT -5
As previously confirmed by ourboros, the Buddha is rumored to have said "the wor ld is on fire". How does that relate to inavalan's post, his point? ....and I believe he said your house is on fire, a little more-immediate problem. It relates more directly to your response about how (in my words) process requires energy. Now that we have the words in front of us, lets continue the dialog absent the importance of authority. By saying that the house is on fire, it suggests that you can escape it. By admitting that the world is on fire, you accept that there is no need. We don't need to agree on this, of course. Either conception has contextual value. It depends on who is reading. For you, I'd urge consideration of the second construction. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 9, 2023 13:49:28 GMT -5
Probably the most detrimental in Watts' presentation is his conclusion derived from his analogy between our level of reality and the level of the blood stream. He opines that intervening, taking sides in the "one hell of a fight" (~6:20) that goes on at blood stream level, would be fatal because the health of the organism depends on having that battle between those microorganisms (nah ...). He concludes that what is conflict at one level of magnification is needed for the harmony at a higher level, and suggests that it might be the case with all our problems too: 'conflicts, neuroses, sickness, political outrages, wars, tortures'. Watts invites the acceptance of those negative aspects in our lives in order to not disturb a hypothetical higher harmony. Detrimental advice. The part about space and time connecting things, events is another weak speculation. Only replying because of the 'pilgrims query here. Apologies in advance for causing any annoyance. I'd agree that implying that the "conflict" is "necessary" creates the potential for a mind hook. Another way to put it is that the "conflict" isn't always what it appears to be from outside and above it looking down on it. He's saying something very similar to what Krishna said to Arjuna. It (the blood) was only a metaphor, although I could make a reasoned argument that in relative/material terms, the assertion of necessity was correct. |
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If I were a betting man I'd bet $100.00 on this being the case, where Watts got the idea. 
