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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 16, 2023 23:15:37 GMT -5
Surrender offers the beauty of effortlessness, but of course we are afraid of it leading to death, since we think that to sustain life requires our effort. It is not so. In fact, what is necessary will happen by itself -- but it may not SEEM so, for several reasons. We have to persevere through this illusion to get to the other side.
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 17, 2023 9:28:56 GMT -5
The biggest obstacle to this is the notion of free-will, the notion that we can choose what to do next. Try scrapping that and see what happens. Hard to do. Good to have you around Sifty.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 17, 2023 13:52:40 GMT -5
The biggest obstacle to this is the notion of free-will, the notion that we can choose what to do next. Try scrapping that and see what happens. Hard to do. Good to have you around Sifty. The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all  . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. |
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Post by steven on Oct 17, 2023 20:07:48 GMT -5
Surrender offers the beauty of effortlessness, but of course we are afraid of it leading to death, since we think that to sustain life requires our effort. It is not so. In fact, what is necessary will happen by itself -- but it may not SEEM so, for several reasons. We have to persevere through this illusion to get to the other side. I just ate a Snickers candy bar. The whole thing in one sitting. It’s been quite a long time since I’ve done such a thing, so I almost felt unfamiliar with it. While I was chewing on the Snickers I had very strong sensations of pleasure. The sweetness of the chocolate and nougat and caramel mixed with the saltiness of the peanuts…fantastic…and swallowing it is so satisfying that I just chewed and ate one bite after another until the whole thing was eaten. Now, strangely, after so much pleasure there is an almost bitter after taste from the sweetness, and the intoxicating feeling of swallowing it down is replaced by a slightly perceptible bit of unease and unsteadiness in my tummy and throughout my body. The sugar running it’s coarse no doubt. An intoxicating pleasure followed by a moderate feeling of yuckiness. Maybe I just need to keep continuously eating the Snickers bars to be happy. |
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Post by laughter on Oct 18, 2023 1:28:39 GMT -5
The biggest obstacle to this is the notion of free-will, the notion that we can choose what to do next. Try scrapping that and see what happens. Hard to do. Good to have you around Sifty. The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. In the interstitial moment as sleep is approaching an abstract vision appears of .. an antenna .. a lens, maybe? The irony detector is the roundish thingamabobby in the vaugish upper center non-corner of the shadow blob  |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 18, 2023 10:05:37 GMT -5
The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. In the interstitial moment as sleep is approaching an abstract vision appears of .. an antenna .. a lens, maybe? The irony detector is the roundish thingamabobby in the vaugish upper center non-corner of the shadow blob It must be buzzing at all times of day and night |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 18, 2023 11:36:41 GMT -5
The biggest obstacle to this is the notion of free-will, the notion that we can choose what to do next. Try scrapping that and see what happens. Hard to do. Good to have you around Sifty. The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. Yes. Non-grasping like balance is an art form. There's no incremental progression. You just keep trying until you don't fall flat on your face and then by how it felt, by feel, your body starts to get it. It catches up to you, rather than you catching up to it. When you learn to surf, they teach you how to pop-up, but popping-up on a board on dry land is very different than popping-up on a moving board on water, but you have the technique ingrained and eventually, on water, after many tries, you don't fall and catch a wave. The more your mind tries to figure it out, the more you fall. It's only when it, the mind, backs off that you stand a chance, non-grasping, and you surf a wave. Eventually, you rarely fall. Who says you don't need to practice to ride a wave? 😁 |
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Post by laughter on Oct 18, 2023 12:16:08 GMT -5
In the interstitial moment as sleep is approaching an abstract vision appears of .. an antenna .. a lens, maybe? The irony detector is the roundish thingamabobby in the vaugish upper center non-corner of the shadow blob It must be buzzing at all times of day and night  .. perhaps .. like any other implement or instrument, one need only pay attention to it when it is useful. |
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Post by laughter on Oct 18, 2023 12:23:37 GMT -5
The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. Yes. Non-grasping like balance is an art form. There's no incremental progression. You just keep trying until you don't fall flat on your face and then by how it felt, by feel, your body starts to get it. It catches up to you, rather than you catching up to it. When you learn to surf, they teach you how to pop-up, but popping-up on a board on dry land is very different than popping-up on a moving board on water, but you have the technique ingrained and eventually, on water, after many tries, you don't fall and catch a wave. The more your mind tries to figure it out, the more you fall. It's only when it, the mind, backs off that you stand a chance, non-grasping, and you surf a wave. Eventually, you rarely fall. Who says you don't need to practice to ride a wave? 😁 At the edge of the constant precipice the balancing act must be effortless A shift by the will works only until attention can slip in the breathlessness Fickle's the point of our focus but only until we do notice even in moment held lightly the thiefs hand need move only slightly But any fall lasts only as long as we are bemused by that tangled song distractions sound and the spinning around fade back into silence from whence they did sound The notes of the song can come sweetly beckoning toward slumber completely leave the good with the bad so that space might be had and the edge balanced ever repeatedly Leave any notion of progress or motion of anything to be attained, At the base of the road take a breath and unload throw the maps and the nets to the rain. Smile at the thought that a fall might be caught there's no price to a moment no thing to be bought Instead let the play spin in gentleness dissolution arrives with relentlessness. No wisdom or lore it all falls by the shore, of a vision fixed ever on endlessness |
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Post by andrew on Oct 18, 2023 13:02:45 GMT -5
The only solution is to focus the so-called free will on letting go -- of everything but the act of letting go. By practicing the art of deliberately grasping at all times the act of non-grasping, we discover in the end that this was no practice at all . And thanks, Z, right back atcha. Yes. Non-grasping like balance is an art form. There's no incremental progression. You just keep trying until you don't fall flat on your face and then by how it felt, by feel, your body starts to get it. It catches up to you, rather than you catching up to it. When you learn to surf, they teach you how to pop-up, but popping-up on a board on dry land is very different than popping-up on a moving board on water, but you have the technique ingrained and eventually, on water, after many tries, you don't fall and catch a wave. The more your mind tries to figure it out, the more you fall. It's only when it, the mind, backs off that you stand a chance, non-grasping, and you surf a wave. Eventually, you rarely fall. Who says you don't need to practice to ride a wave? 😁 In the ocean, we feel the momentum of the wave, and there's a sweet spot at which the momentum is strong enough to support us, so that we can pop up on the board without any effort....the wave does the work. It can feel a little vulnerable initially, because there's a trust in a force outside of us. That can't be duplicated on the sand, in fact, I found the sand lessons to be absolutely pointless, though it might be because I was immersed in the ocean at a very young age, and so already had a sense of how it all worked. Not sure if that can be applied to spiritual meaning....maybe. |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 18, 2023 20:17:12 GMT -5
... Maybe I just need to keep continuously eating the Snickers bars to be happy. Sometimes what feels good is so bad for you. That's why consciousness began developing intellect, to differentiate where emotions / feelings can't. Then, as intellect reached its limits, consciousness began developing intuition. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 20:53:46 GMT -5
Surrender offers the beauty of effortlessness, but of course we are afraid of it leading to death, since we think that to sustain life requires our effort. It is not so. In fact, what is necessary will happen by itself -- but it may not SEEM so, for several reasons. We have to persevere through this illusion to get to the other side. We can't do or perform surrendering, if we were to do, that's an another action. This action now keeps repeating itself. Surrendering has to happen by itself out of clarity. |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 18, 2023 22:08:14 GMT -5
Surrender offers the beauty of effortlessness, but of course we are afraid of it leading to death, since we think that to sustain life requires our effort. It is not so. In fact, what is necessary will happen by itself -- but it may not SEEM so, for several reasons. We have to persevere through this illusion to get to the other side. We can't do or perform surrendering, if we were to do, that's an another action. This action now keeps repeating itself. Surrendering has to happen by itself out of clarity. Surrender-the-action can facilitate surrender out of clarity. In fact, the surrender out of clarity will show that surrender-the-action was in fact not an action at all. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 19, 2023 5:22:17 GMT -5
Surrender offers the beauty of effortlessness, but of course we are afraid of it leading to death, since we think that to sustain life requires our effort. It is not so. In fact, what is necessary will happen by itself -- but it may not SEEM so, for several reasons. We have to persevere through this illusion to get to the other side. We can't do or perform surrendering, if we were to do, that's an another action. This action now keeps repeating itself. Surrendering has to happen by itself out of clarity. Let's just say, you are both not wrong. What sifty suggests is a contradiction of terms, of course. In that sense, you are right and he is wrong. However, from the perspective of only THIS unfolding spontaneously in the eternal now, it is not a contradiction. In that sense, you are wrong and he is right.  |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 19, 2023 6:24:26 GMT -5
Robert Sapolsky's book. I read a headline about it. He's a neuroscientist who argues free will is an illusion. Makes things so much easier. Given the same circumstances, we're all likely to be Hamas or the IDF. Kind of undoes the anger and hatred. I like it. No interest in reading the book though. You know there's a lot of shit we ignore. Tigray, CAR, Myanmar, South Sudan. Violence and war, slaughter somewhere at any given moment. We focus on Ukraine and Israel, why? I think I know why. It doesn't matter. It's not my focus. "First take the plank out of your eye."
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. And thanks, Z, right back atcha.
.. perhaps .. like any other implement or instrument, one need only pay attention to it when it is useful. 
