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Post by Reefs on Sept 30, 2023 3:11:11 GMT -5
Chapters: 0:00- Intro 2:24- John Prendergast meditation 6:46- What is Non-Duality? 9:54- What is Enlightenment? 14:53- Are there stages of realization? 21:12- What if we feel stuck? 25:34- Flavors of awakening 40:00- Enlightenment and happiness 57:43- Rupert Spira meditation 1:04:07- Awareness & practical life 1:14:43- Non-Duality and the Climate Crisis 1:31:33- Non-Duality and Cultural Evolution 1:43:26- Calling and Purpose 1:55:03- Questions for each other 2:05:54- Recommendations of teachers & books 2:10:49- Closing ETA: Added links to chapters |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 30, 2023 15:07:52 GMT -5
/ video / 1:14:43- Non-Duality and the Climate Crisis I checked only the "Climate Crisis" part, and it was what I expected. When the rubber hits the road ... Related to this, I wonder: What does non-duality say about a destruction of humanity? Is it possible? If it happened, then what? |
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Post by laughter on Sept 30, 2023 18:36:33 GMT -5
/ video / 1:14:43- Non-Duality and the Climate Crisis I checked only the "Climate Crisis" part, and it was what I expected. When the rubber hits the road ... Related to this, I wonder: What does non-duality say about a destruction of humanity? Is it possible? If it happened, then what? Funny you should mention that. I was reminded of several themes that have come up on this forum over the years. The best way I've seen the issue you raise here addressed has been by ZD. I'll paraphrase. If the pale blue dot were to suddenly explode If Sol himself winked out If the Universe on whole was to come undone And the "heat death" that some scientists predicatively imagine were come to pass Ahead of schedule. There. Still. Would be. ... YOU!In this instant you are thinking "this is a belief, there is no way for you to know that".  |
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Post by laughter on Sept 30, 2023 18:49:16 GMT -5
Another signal from the forum that came to mind of course is your distinction between alignment and truth. The "render unto Caeser" parable is close to your pointing. I'll refrain from relating that to specifics of the talk out of respect for the participants and not to misuse your voice. But I'll use mine. Far, far too much pandering going on here. Pandering to the illusion of volition, specifically. That's not to take away from some of the pointing. These guys have actually tried to point to real people in real time without hiding behind keyboard and screen, so, far be it from me, sincerely. BUT .. It was like they were humoring the guy. In my words, in answer to his absurd scenario of an electrically or other technologically induced "permanent happiness": I wonder, does he talk to his grandmother with that mouth? I would have told him, "don't settle for the inner peace of your imagination". This is the endemic of our times, people not questioning the scientific movement of mind, with the duality of subject/object front and center, and yet unexamined, taken as unconscious/subconscious assumption. To anyone identifying/agreeing/resonating with Justin: YOU ARE NOT A MACHINE! Have yet to listen to the last 20 minutes, and noticed both Adya and Rupert trying to point back away from a few of the misconceptions. Justin is a seeker who thinks of himself as spiritually advanced. Perhaps he doesn't even think of himself as a seeker any longer. This travesty is a cautionary tale. |
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Post by zendancer on Oct 1, 2023 8:17:30 GMT -5
I checked only the "Climate Crisis" part, and it was what I expected. When the rubber hits the road ... Related to this, I wonder: What does non-duality say about a destruction of humanity? Is it possible? If it happened, then what? Funny you should mention that. I was reminded of several themes that have come up on this forum over the years. The best way I've seen the issue you raise here addressed has been by ZD. I'll paraphrase. If the pale blue dot were to suddenly explode If Sol himself winked out If the Universe on whole was to come undone And the "heat death" that some scientists predicatively imagine were come to pass Ahead of schedule. There. Still. Would be. ... YOU!In this instant you are thinking "this is a belief, there is no way for you to know that". So true on all counts. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 1, 2023 10:57:11 GMT -5
Related to this, I wonder: What does non-duality say about a destruction of humanity? Is it possible? If it happened, then what? Non-duality is all about what is real, or actual, i.e. what exists in its own right and does not come and go. That being said, you should be able to answer those questions yourself. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 1, 2023 11:52:00 GMT -5
Another signal from the forum that came to mind of course is your distinction between alignment and truth. The "render unto Caeser" parable is close to your pointing. I'll refrain from relating that to specifics of the talk out of respect for the participants and not to misuse your voice. But I'll use mine. Far, far too much pandering going on here. Pandering to the illusion of volition, specifically. That's not to take away from some of the pointing. These guys have actually tried to point to real people in real time without hiding behind keyboard and screen, so, far be it from me, sincerely. BUT .. It was like they were humoring the guy. In my words, in answer to his absurd scenario of an electrically or other technologically induced "permanent happiness": I wonder, does he talk to his grandmother with that mouth? I would have told him, "don't settle for the inner peace of your imagination". This is the endemic of our times, people not questioning the scientific movement of mind, with the duality of subject/object front and center, and yet unexamined, taken as unconscious/subconscious assumption. To anyone identifying/agreeing/resonating with Justin: YOU ARE NOT A MACHINE! Have yet to listen to the last 20 minutes, and noticed both Adya and Rupert trying to point back away from a few of the misconceptions. Justin is a seeker who thinks of himself as spiritually advanced. Perhaps he doesn't even think of himself as a seeker any longer. This travesty is a cautionary tale. When I posted the video, I had only watched the "Calling and Purpose" chapter. Which I thought was pretty good. And knowing that, based on their regular talks, Spira and Adya have major differences in perspectives, I thought the rest of the video should be equally interesting. Just wondering. But after having watched the entire video, I can only agree. This was pretty bad. Almost like some kind of non-duality parody, no stereotype left out. First there's Jonathan with his neo-advaita soft voice™, then Adya 'spontaneously' clapping his hands, then Rupert redefining enlightenment as happiness... What?! Inavalan proven right again.  P.S. Any idea why this was so awkward? I may have a theory: In their own satsangs, which are a controlled setting and where they are the one and only accepted authority, they usually seem brilliant and relaxed and own the room. But in this uncontrolled setting where they are on equal ground and (virtual) face to face with their peers, suddenly they've lost their clarity, tense up and don't dare to speak their minds. Wouldn't you expect a non-duality guru to be beyond exactly that? Weird. How well would they do on this forum? |
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Post by andrew on Oct 1, 2023 13:29:20 GMT -5
Another signal from the forum that came to mind of course is your distinction between alignment and truth. The "render unto Caeser" parable is close to your pointing. I'll refrain from relating that to specifics of the talk out of respect for the participants and not to misuse your voice. But I'll use mine. Far, far too much pandering going on here. Pandering to the illusion of volition, specifically. That's not to take away from some of the pointing. These guys have actually tried to point to real people in real time without hiding behind keyboard and screen, so, far be it from me, sincerely. BUT .. It was like they were humoring the guy. In my words, in answer to his absurd scenario of an electrically or other technologically induced "permanent happiness": I wonder, does he talk to his grandmother with that mouth? I would have told him, "don't settle for the inner peace of your imagination". This is the endemic of our times, people not questioning the scientific movement of mind, with the duality of subject/object front and center, and yet unexamined, taken as unconscious/subconscious assumption. To anyone identifying/agreeing/resonating with Justin: YOU ARE NOT A MACHINE! Have yet to listen to the last 20 minutes, and noticed both Adya and Rupert trying to point back away from a few of the misconceptions. Justin is a seeker who thinks of himself as spiritually advanced. Perhaps he doesn't even think of himself as a seeker any longer. This travesty is a cautionary tale. When I posted the video, I had only watched the "Calling and Purpose" chapter. Which I thought was pretty good. And knowing that, based on their regular talks, Spira and Adya have major differences in perspectives, I thought the rest of the video should be equally interesting. Just wondering. But after having watched the entire video, I can only agree. This was pretty bad. Almost like some kind of non-duality parody, no stereotype left out. First there's Jonathan with his neo-advaita soft voice™, then Adya 'spontaneously' clapping his hands, then Rupert redefining enlightenment as happiness... What?! Inavalan proven right again. P.S. Any idea why this was so awkward? I may have a theory: In their own satsangs, which are a controlled setting and where they are the one and only accepted authority, they usually seem brilliant and relaxed and own the room. But in this uncontrolled setting where they are on equal ground and (virtual) face to face with their peers, suddenly they've lost their clarity, tense up and don't dare to speak their minds. Wouldn't you expect a non-duality guru to be beyond exactly that? Weird. How well would they do on this forum? I watched 5 minutes, maybe it was a bad 5 minutes, or maybe I wasn't in the right state, but I couldn't really understand what was being said. I felt disconnected from it. I do think setting/context is part of it. Maybe the mix and match approach doesn't come across well i.e better when it's just a solo speaker. |
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Post by laughter on Oct 2, 2023 23:27:05 GMT -5
Another signal from the forum that came to mind of course is your distinction between alignment and truth. The "render unto Caeser" parable is close to your pointing. I'll refrain from relating that to specifics of the talk out of respect for the participants and not to misuse your voice. But I'll use mine. Far, far too much pandering going on here. Pandering to the illusion of volition, specifically. That's not to take away from some of the pointing. These guys have actually tried to point to real people in real time without hiding behind keyboard and screen, so, far be it from me, sincerely. BUT .. It was like they were humoring the guy. In my words, in answer to his absurd scenario of an electrically or other technologically induced "permanent happiness": I wonder, does he talk to his grandmother with that mouth? I would have told him, "don't settle for the inner peace of your imagination". This is the endemic of our times, people not questioning the scientific movement of mind, with the duality of subject/object front and center, and yet unexamined, taken as unconscious/subconscious assumption. To anyone identifying/agreeing/resonating with Justin: YOU ARE NOT A MACHINE! Have yet to listen to the last 20 minutes, and noticed both Adya and Rupert trying to point back away from a few of the misconceptions. Justin is a seeker who thinks of himself as spiritually advanced. Perhaps he doesn't even think of himself as a seeker any longer. This travesty is a cautionary tale. When I posted the video, I had only watched the "Calling and Purpose" chapter. Which I thought was pretty good. And knowing that, based on their regular talks, Spira and Adya have major differences in perspectives, I thought the rest of the video should be equally interesting. Just wondering. But after having watched the entire video, I can only agree. This was pretty bad. Almost like some kind of non-duality parody, no stereotype left out. First there's Jonathan with his neo-advaita soft voice™, then Adya 'spontaneously' clapping his hands, then Rupert redefining enlightenment as happiness... What?! Inavalan proven right again. P.S. Any idea why this was so awkward? I may have a theory: In their own satsangs, which are a controlled setting and where they are the one and only accepted authority, they usually seem brilliant and relaxed and own the room. But in this uncontrolled setting where they are on equal ground and (virtual) face to face with their peers, suddenly they've lost their clarity, tense up and don't dare to speak their minds. Wouldn't you expect a non-duality guru to be beyond exactly that? Weird. How well would they do on this forum? Said before, I thought some of the pointing was good at certain points. You're probably right about the unusual format. In the last 20 minutes there was some genuine, heartfelt appreciation expressed between the three, and I found that pleasant. But the pandering got worse! In my opinion the problem was the host. A seeker who is searching for existential purpose is a seeker who is engaging in self-inquiry. And if they don't understand that, they're engaging in the inquiry un/subconsciously. Conversely, Spira's work is only ever tangentially about alignment, and Adya's most deft expressions are about truth. Spira, in particular .. I got the impression from his facial expression that he just decided to deliberately hold his tongue. You can confirm your speculation about why it was so bad if you can find a past instance of anyone asking any of the questions that Joe Gustin picked out to present in one of their usual one-to-many satsangs. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 3, 2023 5:33:37 GMT -5
Said before, I thought some of the pointing was good at certain points. You're probably right about the unusual format. In the last 20 minutes there was some genuine, heartfelt appreciation expressed between the three, and I found that pleasant. But the pandering got worse! In my opinion the problem was the host. A seeker who is searching for existential purpose is a seeker who is engaging in self-inquiry. And if they don't understand that, they're engaging in the inquiry un/subconsciously. Conversely, Spira's work is only ever tangentially about alignment, and Adya's most deft expressions are about truth. Spira, in particular .. I got the impression from his facial expression that he just decided to deliberately hold his tongue. You can confirm your speculation about why it was so bad if you can find a past instance of anyone asking any of the questions that Joe Gustin picked out to present in one of their usual one-to-many satsangs. To put it in Zen terms, they acted like men with rank instead of true men without rank. That's what was so disappointing. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 3, 2023 5:43:13 GMT -5
I watched 5 minutes, maybe it was a bad 5 minutes, or maybe I wasn't in the right state, but I couldn't really understand what was being said. I felt disconnected from it. I do think setting/context is part of it. Maybe the mix and match approach doesn't come across well i.e better when it's just a solo speaker.  |
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