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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2023 22:35:43 GMT -5
I watched the video in full, Jisho is very good (but it's kind of like watching paint dry [  ] ). Two things stuck out. It is impossible to think of the way it is now. That's very good, clear, accurate. Another is I think a mistranslation. This is curious too, in translating you have to trust the translator, obviously. "Life only exists when we think life". I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, it would contradict everything else he said. He didn't use the word think here. I'm going to go back and listen to that again. He answered the questions very well. Edit: I listened to the part in question about six times, went back some and forward some for a fuller context. It's at minute 1:30:00. I think I understand what he was saying, or what got left out in translation. Going back to the sentence just previous, and previous to that he was describing life as like learning to ride a bicycle. "In terms about the best way to live life, life only exists when we think life". What he meant. In terms about the best way to live life, meaning, in time as from A to B to C, past to present to future, that kind of life only exists when we think life. This part added for clarification. Comments welcome. Otherwise, he was very clear. Oh, another edit: There is something else that's obvious to sdp, I was waiting for him to mention, he had several easy opportunities. It's the basis for continuity, there is a basis for continuity. He didn't say. Oh I'm glad you watched it because I also had you in mind when I posted it. I'm not that familiar with Zen so when he said at the top of the video that he was going to tell you about Zen in a way that you might not have heard about before I had nothing to compare it with and I was hoping that you guys might have the answer. But the way he was pointing to what is was very clear and not unfamiliar to me so I'm wondering now what other ways you can explain Zen. He said a couple of interesting things. One of which that it has nothing to do with consciousness which was surprising, but unfortunately he didn't elaborate. He just kept pointing to whatever is happening is the way it is. And he also made a very emphatic statement about enlightenment. Using the example of when you hear the cat meow and he said there is only meow. When you hear the cat meow you might start having thoughts like oh that's a little cute cat, it's so cuddly etc but he said that Enlightenment is knowing that there is only meow. It's when cognition and memory completely subsides and there is only meow. So I might have some disagreements here but certainly he's pointing to the fact that the only thing that exists is what is happening now was very clear and precise. And he applied that to zazen as just being sitting because that's what it is. No going within to silent awareness in the way that Ramana would speak about, just sitting because that's what it is. It's all good stuff but it seems like there's a piece of the jigsaw missing somewhere. It was funny when that very confused looking woman asked him how she should live her life and he said, make whatever decisions you want because that's the way it is. |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 4, 2023 23:52:38 GMT -5
I watched the video in full, Jisho is very good (but it's kind of like watching paint dry [ ] ). Two things stuck out. It is impossible to think of the way it is now. That's very good, clear, accurate. Another is I think a mistranslation. This is curious too, in translating you have to trust the translator, obviously. "Life only exists when we think life". I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, it would contradict everything else he said. He didn't use the word think here. I'm going to go back and listen to that again. He answered the questions very well. Edit: I listened to the part in question about six times, went back some and forward some for a fuller context. It's at minute 1:30:00. I think I understand what he was saying, or what got left out in translation. Going back to the sentence just previous, and previous to that he was describing life as like learning to ride a bicycle. "In terms about the best way to live life, life only exists when we think life". What he meant. In terms about the best way to live life, meaning, in time as from A to B to C, past to present to future, that kind of life only exists when we think life. This part added for clarification. Comments welcome. Otherwise, he was very clear. Oh, another edit: There is something else that's obvious to sdp, I was waiting for him to mention, he had several easy opportunities. It's the basis for continuity, there is a basis for continuity. He didn't say. Oh I'm glad you watched it because I also had you in mind when I posted it. I'm not that familiar with Zen so when he said at the top of the video that he was going to tell you about Zen in a way that you might not have heard about before I had nothing to compare it with and I was hoping that you guys might have the answer. But the way he was pointing to what is was very clear and not unfamiliar to me so I'm wondering now what other ways you can explain Zen. He said a couple of interesting things. One of which that it has nothing to do with consciousness which was surprising, but unfortunately he didn't elaborate. He just kept pointing to whatever is happening is the way it is. And he also made a very emphatic statement about enlightenment. Using the example of when you hear the cat meow and he said there is only meow. When you hear the cat meow you might start having thoughts like oh that's a little cute cat, it's so cuddly etc but he said that Enlightenment is knowing that there is only meow. It's when cognition and memory completely subsides and there is only meow. So I might have some disagreements here but certainly he's pointing to the fact that the only thing that exists is what is happening now was very clear and precise. And he applied that to zazen as just being sitting because that's what it is. No going within to silent awareness in the way that Ramana would speak about, just sitting because that's what it is. It's all good stuff but it seems like there's a piece of the jigsaw missing somewhere. It was funny when that very confused looking woman asked him how she should live her life and he said, make whatever decisions you want because that's the way it is. sounds quite interesting. Thanks! It is quite long, but I might listen/browse it. Only from the above two quoted posts, he seems to say: - the present is the point of power: both the past and the future are created now; the past doesn't exist, in the same way that the future doesn't exist.
- there is no single objective reality / life outside of what we think, outside of what our individual subconscious creates for our egos perception
- your subconscious creates your reality (i.e. the cat) as result of its connection to everything that there is, from which it focuses on whatever it is of interest in that moment (i.e. the meow); from that information, the subconscious creates a reality (the cat that meows) only for your ego to perceive
- whatever decision you make, your free-will choice determines what you'll experience in the next moment, meaning which connections your subconscious focuses on, the reality it creates (both toward your future and toward your past), in the framework of your beliefs and expectations.
- going into silent awareness for the sake of it, is missing the point; eliminating distracted/defective thinking is only a means to an end, not a purpose in itself.
EDIT: I watched about 50 minutes. Although I still stand by what I wrote above, the talk is about zazen only, about what that is, as a way of taking perceptions and thought for what they are, with no interpretation. Satori is when you realize that: the meow is only that meow. As gar as I can follow the Japanese, the translation is quite accurate, and the repeated explanations minimize translation distortions. So it isn't about practice, but about the perspective of dealing with your perceptions and thoughts. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 5, 2023 6:46:09 GMT -5
I watched the video in full, Jisho is very good (but it's kind of like watching paint dry [ ] ). Two things stuck out. It is impossible to think of the way it is now. That's very good, clear, accurate. Another is I think a mistranslation. This is curious too, in translating you have to trust the translator, obviously. "Life only exists when we think life". I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, it would contradict everything else he said. He didn't use the word think here. I'm going to go back and listen to that again. He answered the questions very well. Edit: I listened to the part in question about six times, went back some and forward some for a fuller context. It's at minute 1:30:00. I think I understand what he was saying, or what got left out in translation. Going back to the sentence just previous, and previous to that he was describing life as like learning to ride a bicycle. "In terms about the best way to live life, life only exists when we think life". What he meant. In terms about the best way to live life, meaning, in time as from A to B to C, past to present to future, that kind of life only exists when we think life. This part added for clarification. Comments welcome. Otherwise, he was very clear. Oh, another edit: There is something else that's obvious to sdp, I was waiting for him to mention, he had several easy opportunities. It's the basis for continuity, there is a basis for continuity. He didn't say. Oh I'm glad you watched it because I also had you in mind when I posted it. I'm not that familiar with Zen so when he said at the top of the video that he was going to tell you about Zen in a way that you might not have heard about before I had nothing to compare it with and I was hoping that you guys might have the answer. But the way he was pointing to what is was very clear and not unfamiliar to me so I'm wondering now what other ways you can explain Zen. He said a couple of interesting things. One of which that it has nothing to do with consciousness which was surprising, but unfortunately he didn't elaborate. He just kept pointing to whatever is happening is the way it is. And he also made a very emphatic statement about enlightenment. Using the example of when you hear the cat meow and he said there is only meow. When you hear the cat meow you might start having thoughts like oh that's a little cute cat, it's so cuddly etc but he said that Enlightenment is knowing that there is only meow. It's when cognition and memory completely subsides and there is only meow. So I might have some disagreements here but certainly he's pointing to the fact that the only thing that exists is what is happening now was very clear and precise. And he applied that to zazen as just being sitting because that's what it is. No going within to silent awareness in the way that Ramana would speak about, just sitting because that's what it is. It's all good stuff but it seems like there's a piece of the jigsaw missing somewhere. It was funny when that very confused looking woman asked him how she should live her life and he said, make whatever decisions you want because that's the way it is. I don't know a lot about Zen, I've read a good deal of the literature. For a while a student of Charlotte Joko Beck lived in Southern Pines, NC, 100 miles and about 2 hours from me. I found out about her from an internet friend who was a student, and went once for their normal meeting, open. We did sitting meditation for maybe 45 minutes, and then had one-on one meetings with her, the teacher. I don't remember anything about my meeting. That was over 20 years ago. She lived in the house where meetings were. The name was something like Sand Hills Zen Center, they used to have a website. Checked a few years ago, no results. I could probably find the house, I remember the general area where it was, have considered looking in passing to a Carolina Hurricanes game in Raleigh, it wouldn't be too far out of the way. Sorry, that was kind of superfluous, but it's my only living contact with (American) Zen (I've read Joko Becks's 3 books, she's very good, very very good. She has a few videos available, they are very good also). But the video corresponds a great deal to what I/we practice. We never used the term nondual, we used the word simultaneous. Simultaneously = nondual, as far as practice goes, we generally used the word simultaneity. It's exactly the horse Jisho beat to death, in a good way. Practice is simultaneous with whatever you are doing, and it's never thinking about what you are doing. So correct practice does not require (any extra) time, it does not take up any time. When I first came here, for a couple of years I didn't discuss my background. Then one day ZD described self-remembering from what another person told him, it had something to do with repeating-thinking-some something, I don't remember. So I had to chime in, no, that's not what self-remembering is. Then I quoted from Life Is Real Only Then When I Am, Gurdjieff's 3rd book, showing self-remembering is not about thought (self-remembering is just a name, not a description. The practice is called the first conscious shock, that is, self-remembering = the first conscious shock, which is a better name, because nobody knows wtf the first conscious shock means. But later you come to understand the meaning of the words, self-remembering). That's why the phrase he used hit home and stuck in my mind: "It is impossible to think the way it is now". Any thought is always a copy. But he also clarified, the thought itself is now (but what the thought is about wouldn't be now, because a copy is never now). So he was very gentle with the newby girl's questions, great compassion. When she couldn't refine her question for him, she said i don't know, he said I'll answer both ways. And he also emphasized, Zazen can be done any time, anywhere. He meant his description, which he went into great detail over and over. inavalan said he watched 50 minutes, he probably got enough to get the whole point. But you probably understand better about the cat question here. Meow is a Zen answer for tell me what a cat is without saying it in words. I agree, according to his description of enlightenment, sdp is enlightened. That ain't so. I must have read different Zen literature than most people here. From what I read a satori can be a first gentle temporary glimpse. I never really ever tried to answer a koan. I'd read them but didn't have the inclination to try to solve. I ~got~ an answer for what is the sound of one hand clapping, but never got it verified, but my answer seems pretty clear. Once some years ago steve put some koans on a new thread, not classical, he just made some up. So I thought, I'll try this, and in a few seconds an answer came, and I posted it. Steve said that's correct. Then ZD said we'd better keep the answers in private, so I said sure, I volunteered to delete my answer. So then I understood some of the classical koans, but more-so some of the stories, and i got a clear picture of Zen. The Masters and the stories always take you to the present moment. Some of the stupid stories and stupid answers become clear, the answers are just descriptions about what's-happening-now. So on this Jisho was very clear, this is the horse he beat to death. So it's more-fun to read the Zen literature now. After watching the video, you'll probably like Zen literature now. Oh, too, Albert Low is very good on Zen. I have a comment about the question about self-inquiry. I'll be back, no edit, another post. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 8:05:59 GMT -5
As the Zen Master in the video states so well in slightly different words, "Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful."  I had a feeling you would pick up on that. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 5, 2023 10:20:40 GMT -5
As the Zen Master in the video states so well in slightly different words, "Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful." I had a feeling you would pick up on that. I finished the video, and it is one of the best expositions explaining the approach of Soto Zen that I've ever seen. I was a dharma teacher in a Rinzai Zen organization for twelve years, and the Rinzai approach is quite different than the Soto approach, but both approaches seem to end up in the same place with the same way of life. Rinzai Zen uses koans as a teaching tool, and teachers in that tradition do a lot more explaining and story telling than in Soto Zen. Here are a few things to keep in mind: Rinzai people are more interested in triggering "kensho," which they define as an event during which there is "seeing into one's true nature." Many people consider kensho events to be experiences, but they are not experiences in the usual sense of the word. They are more like CC events of oneness, and during the event there is no separate observer of what happens. It's like reality, itself, sees into its own fundamental nature. Afterwards, one may reflect upon what happened and say, "the CC experience lasted for thirty minutes," but during the event itself there is no time, sense of self identity, or sense of separateness. These kinds of events can be shallow and momentary (like a glimpse of oneness) or extremely deep, during which there is a direct apprehension of what can only be called "the Infinite," and a deep event can result in numerous significant realizations. The most common realization can be stated as, "Reality is NOT what I thought it was; it is more like apprehending an incomprehensible living presence that emanates love for every aspect of existence." Kensho events are non-dual and are usually triggered by a sensory event. The Buddha had a kensho that was triggered by looking at the planet Venus in the morning sky after he meditated all night. He was unusual because he seems to have attained full realization, the answers to all of his existential questions, and much more. He probably experienced what some of us call "the download phenomenon" which is something like getting directly connected to a vast unseen intelligence that underlies everything and is running the whole show. It's as if a huge mainframe computer downloaded its vast information into a small laptop in one big blast, and it changes everything from past thinking patterns to installing previously unknown information about the nature of reality (it's very hard to describe, but many people have reported this, and it happened to this character in 1984). Continued: I was fascinated by Matsumoto's dismissal of self-enquiry as being unnecessary because many different ND traditions regard self-enquiry as particularly important. I suppose that he would say the same thing about contemplating existential questions, and he makes it clear why he would say those things. The Soto approach is probably the simplest approach of all--just sit until the mind becomes sufficiently silent for the truth to become obvious. I suspect that the Rinzai approach is preferred by ZM's who want to speed things up a bit. The koan system is interesting because it gives one confidence that anything one wants to know can be discovered using Einstein's methodology based on his statement, "I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me." In all likelihood the truth came to Einstein because he earnestly wanted to know what could resolve various problems with the standard model in physics. ITSW, Nisargadatta told a student that the most important attribute of a seeker is earnestness. I recently gave a presentation titled "How to find answers to existential questions," and I spelled out the approach that Einstein used in the scientific realm in this way: 1. Explicitly state what you want to know and mull it over for a while 2. Then shift attention away from thinking/thoughts using any meditative activity that you prefer 3. Remain in silence until the answer suddenly pops to the surface of consciousness 4. If an indisputable and obvious answer doesn't appear, bring the question back up for conscious consideration again and then shift attention away from thoughts until an answer appears. As one answers more and more koans, one develops confidence that any existential question of importance (including personal koans) can be answered using that same approach. AAR, I liked Matsumoto's "a meow is just a meow." That totally captures what both Zen traditions are pointing to--a very simple, direct, down-to-earth, and matter-of-fact way of life that does not require rumination, second guessing, or intellectual reflection in general. My only complaint about both Zen traditions is that they are quite rigid in format and overly emphasize formal meditative practices. When I first attended Advaita Vedanta retreats, I found them to be a lot more fun, less structured, filled with laughter love and comaraderie, and emotionally expressive rather than repressive. To each his own. During an Advaita retreat people are free to attend satsang or walk in the woods. Simply put, there is a lot more joie de vivre and open discussions regarding every aspect of what may happen to a serious seeker who persistently seeks the truth. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 12:45:10 GMT -5
I had a feeling you would pick up on that. I finished the video, and it is one of the best expositions explaining the approach of Soto Zen that I've ever seen. I was a dharma teacher in a Rinzai Zen organization for twelve years, and the Rinzai approach is quite different than the Soto approach, but both approaches seem to end up in the same place with the same way of life. Rinzai Zen uses koans as a teaching tool, and teachers in that tradition do a lot more explaining and story telling than in Soto Zen. Here are a few things to keep in mind: Rinzai people are more interested in triggering "kensho," which they define as an event during which there is "seeing into one's true nature." Many people consider kensho events to be experiences, but they are not experiences in the usual sense of the word. They are more like CC events of oneness, and during the event there is no separate observer of what happens. It's like reality, itself, sees into its own fundamental nature. Afterwards, one may reflect upon what happened and say, "the CC experience lasted for thirty minutes," but during the event itself there is no time, sense of self identity, or sense of separateness. These kinds of events can be shallow and momentary (like a glimpse of oneness) or extremely deep, during which there is a direct apprehension of what can only be called "the Infinite," and a deep event can result in numerous significant realizations. The most common realization can be stated as, "Reality is NOT what I thought it was; it is more like apprehending an incomprehensible living presence that emanates love for every aspect of existence." Kensho events are non-dual and are usually triggered by a sensory event. The Buddha had a kensho that was triggered by looking at the planet Venus in the morning sky after he meditated all night. He was unusual because he seems to have attained full realization, the answers to all of his existential questions, and much more. He probably experienced what some of us call "the download phenomenon" which is something like getting directly connected to a vast unseen intelligence that underlies everything and is running the whole show. It's as if a huge mainframe computer downloaded its vast information into a small laptop in one big blast, and it changes everything from past thinking patterns to installing previously unknown information about the nature of reality (it's very hard to describe, but many people have reported this, and it happened to this character in 1984). To be continued: (I have an appointment that I can't skip) What appointment you have? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 5, 2023 13:01:31 GMT -5
I finished the video, and it is one of the best expositions explaining the approach of Soto Zen that I've ever seen. I was a dharma teacher in a Rinzai Zen organization for twelve years, and the Rinzai approach is quite different than the Soto approach, but both approaches seem to end up in the same place with the same way of life. Rinzai Zen uses koans as a teaching tool, and teachers in that tradition do a lot more explaining and story telling than in Soto Zen. Here are a few things to keep in mind: Rinzai people are more interested in triggering "kensho," which they define as an event during which there is "seeing into one's true nature." Many people consider kensho events to be experiences, but they are not experiences in the usual sense of the word. They are more like CC events of oneness, and during the event there is no separate observer of what happens. It's like reality, itself, sees into its own fundamental nature. Afterwards, one may reflect upon what happened and say, "the CC experience lasted for thirty minutes," but during the event itself there is no time, sense of self identity, or sense of separateness. These kinds of events can be shallow and momentary (like a glimpse of oneness) or extremely deep, during which there is a direct apprehension of what can only be called "the Infinite," and a deep event can result in numerous significant realizations. The most common realization can be stated as, "Reality is NOT what I thought it was; it is more like apprehending an incomprehensible living presence that emanates love for every aspect of existence." Kensho events are non-dual and are usually triggered by a sensory event. The Buddha had a kensho that was triggered by looking at the planet Venus in the morning sky after he meditated all night. He was unusual because he seems to have attained full realization, the answers to all of his existential questions, and much more. He probably experienced what some of us call "the download phenomenon" which is something like getting directly connected to a vast unseen intelligence that underlies everything and is running the whole show. It's as if a huge mainframe computer downloaded its vast information into a small laptop in one big blast, and it changes everything from past thinking patterns to installing previously unknown information about the nature of reality (it's very hard to describe, but many people have reported this, and it happened to this character in 1984). To be continued: (I have an appointment that I can't skip) What appointment you have? One he can't skip. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 5, 2023 13:09:14 GMT -5
I finished the video, and it is one of the best expositions explaining the approach of Soto Zen that I've ever seen. I was a dharma teacher in a Rinzai Zen organization for twelve years, and the Rinzai approach is quite different than the Soto approach, but both approaches seem to end up in the same place with the same way of life. Rinzai Zen uses koans as a teaching tool, and teachers in that tradition do a lot more explaining and story telling than in Soto Zen. Here are a few things to keep in mind: Rinzai people are more interested in triggering "kensho," which they define as an event during which there is "seeing into one's true nature." Many people consider kensho events to be experiences, but they are not experiences in the usual sense of the word. They are more like CC events of oneness, and during the event there is no separate observer of what happens. It's like reality, itself, sees into its own fundamental nature. Afterwards, one may reflect upon what happened and say, "the CC experience lasted for thirty minutes," but during the event itself there is no time, sense of self identity, or sense of separateness. These kinds of events can be shallow and momentary (like a glimpse of oneness) or extremely deep, during which there is a direct apprehension of what can only be called "the Infinite," and a deep event can result in numerous significant realizations. The most common realization can be stated as, "Reality is NOT what I thought it was; it is more like apprehending an incomprehensible living presence that emanates love for every aspect of existence." Kensho events are non-dual and are usually triggered by a sensory event. The Buddha had a kensho that was triggered by looking at the planet Venus in the morning sky after he meditated all night. He was unusual because he seems to have attained full realization, the answers to all of his existential questions, and much more. He probably experienced what some of us call "the download phenomenon" which is something like getting directly connected to a vast unseen intelligence that underlies everything and is running the whole show. It's as if a huge mainframe computer downloaded its vast information into a small laptop in one big blast, and it changes everything from past thinking patterns to installing previously unknown information about the nature of reality (it's very hard to describe, but many people have reported this, and it happened to this character in 1984). To be continued: (I have an appointment that I can't skip) What appointment you have? lol that's a funny question.  |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 5, 2023 15:33:49 GMT -5
As the Zen Master in the video states so well in slightly different words, " Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful." I had a feeling you would pick up on that. Matsumoto doesn't say that, and doesn't infer that. He says that you know that a meow is a meow, and don't assume there is a cat that meows. So it isn't about not-knowing. He says nowhere that it is something wonderful, as that is again imagining the cat. Obviously, people understand according to their biases. In this case zd missed Matsumoto's point: zd used cognition when he interpreted that "Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful." |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 5, 2023 16:03:51 GMT -5
What appointment you have? One he can't skip. Spoken like a true Zen student! Perfect! From a more mundane standpoint, it was a medical appt. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 16:14:15 GMT -5
What appointment you have? One he can't skip. |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 5, 2023 16:14:32 GMT -5
I had a feeling you would pick up on that. Matsumoto doesn't say that, and doesn't infer that. He says that you know that a meow is a meow, and don't assume there is a cat that meows. So it isn't about not-knowing. He says nowhere that it is something wonderful, as that is again imagining the cat. Obviously, people understand according to their biases. In this case zd missed Matsumoto's point: zd used cognition when he interpreted that "Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful." I don't have sufficient interest to look at the entire video again, but he says something like that, and that's a common theme in both Soto and Rinzai Zen. Zen Master Stung Sahn used to tell his students, "Go straight. Only don't know. Put it all down. Just do it." All of those admonitions were pointing to the cessation of cognition and living without expectation, judgment, desire, reflection, or attachment in the present moment. "Don't know mind" is also a common expression in Zen because if one becomes detached from beliefs and thoughts (non-abidance in mind), and stays focused on whatever is happening in the present moment, there will be contentment without any thought about being content. FWIW, becoming comfortable with not-knowing is it's own reward. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 16:14:42 GMT -5
What appointment you have? lol that's a funny question. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 5, 2023 16:32:21 GMT -5
Matsumoto doesn't say that, and doesn't infer that. He says that you know that a meow is a meow, and don't assume there is a cat that meows. So it isn't about not-knowing. He says nowhere that it is something wonderful, as that is again imagining the cat. Obviously, people understand according to their biases. In this case zd missed Matsumoto's point: zd used cognition when he interpreted that "Living in a not-knowing state of mind is quite wonderful." I don't have sufficient interest to look at the entire video again, but he says something like that, and that's a common theme in both Soto and Rinzai Zen. Zen Master Stung Sahn used to tell his students, "Go straight. Only don't know. Put it all down. Just do it." All of those admonitions were pointing to the cessation of cognition and living without expectation, judgment, desire, reflection, or attachment in the present moment. "Don't know mind" is also a common expression in Zen because if one becomes detached from beliefs and thoughts (non-abidance in mind), and stays focused on whatever is happening in the present moment, there will be contentment without any thought about being content. FWIW, becoming comfortable with not-knowing is it's own reward. inavalan, in the context of ZD's post. As far as I know you said you watched (only) 50 minutes, so how can you comment on the quote? I would say don't know mind means don't know the future, what's going to occur. Matsumoto uses know in the sense ZD does, in the present moment, which he goes into extensively, he means gnosis, that is, not an abstraction. |
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Post by inavalan on Jul 5, 2023 16:47:17 GMT -5
I don't have sufficient interest to look at the entire video again, but he says something like that, and that's a common theme in both Soto and Rinzai Zen. Zen Master Stung Sahn used to tell his students, "Go straight. Only don't know. Put it all down. Just do it." All of those admonitions were pointing to the cessation of cognition and living without expectation, judgment, desire, reflection, or attachment in the present moment. "Don't know mind" is also a common expression in Zen because if one becomes detached from beliefs and thoughts (non-abidance in mind), and stays focused on whatever is happening in the present moment, there will be contentment without any thought about being content. FWIW, becoming comfortable with not-knowing is it's own reward. inavalan, in the context of ZD's post. As far as I know you said you watched (only) 50 minutes, so how can you comment on the quote? I would say don't know mind means don't know the future, what's going to occur. Matsumoto uses know in the sense ZD does, in the present moment, which he goes into extensively, he means gnosis, that is, not an abstraction. From my last night post edit the context changed: I watched the full video. Matsumoto talks about "reasoning". I listened to the Japanese too. He talks about (not) adding one's reasoning (cat) to the perception (meow). He doesn't say to not-think (different verbs). He said that meow is a meow, not a cat. He said that "thought about something being good" is "thought about something being good", it doesn't mean that "that something is good". He says that you can't think about the present moment, but only about a past or future moment, and once the moment passed, it is gone, it is another moment. I don't subscribe to Matusmoto's views, just commented on what he said, and on your quotes and questions, and what they meant to me. This doesn't mean that Matsumoto meant, or believes on the same lines as I do. Matsumoto said that meditation and zazen are two different hings (from the beginning of the video). |
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] ). Two things stuck out. It is impossible to think of the way it is now. That's very good, clear, accurate. Another is I think a mistranslation. This is curious too, in translating you have to trust the translator, obviously. "Life only exists when we think life". I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, it would contradict everything else he said. He didn't use the word think here. I'm going to go back and listen to that again. He answered the questions very well.
