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Post by laughter on Jun 5, 2023 5:00:17 GMT -5
ZD said: "I remember mentioning this to Enigma many years ago by saying something like "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," but he dismissed that as an illogical conclusion. Ironically, I wasn't trying to be logical" Task: Analyze the following in terms of no-duality and oneness. "I remember mentioning this to Enigma many years ago by saying something like "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," but he dismissed that as an illogical conclusion. Ironically, I wasn't trying to be logical" ChatGPT: In the given statement, "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," the idea of oneness and non-duality is subtly implied. The statement suggests that there is a deep interconnection between our individual existence and the aliveness of the entire universe. It implies that our aliveness is not separate from the aliveness of everything else but rather an intrinsic part of it. When the speaker mentions Enigma's dismissal of this idea as an illogical conclusion, it highlights the contrast between a logical perspective and a more intuitive or experiential understanding. The speaker acknowledges that their statement was not intended to be logical but rather an expression of a deeper sense of connection and oneness. From a logical standpoint, the statement may indeed appear illogical since it challenges the conventional notion of individuality and separateness. However, when viewed through the lens of non-duality and oneness, it can be seen as an attempt to express a profound truth about the interconnected nature of existence. "Interconnection" is ultimately though an existential fallacy that's premised on what we might refer to as "object-consciousness" or what reefs has referred to as "thingness". There are no things to be interconnected, not in an existential sense. Interconnectivity is a way for a new-ager to embrace "oneness" while clinging to his or her own sense of individual existence. A flip side to the aliveness realization/experience is an intellectual shadow based on physical scale. The physical scale of the Universe is quite mind-blowing to contemplate. Even the physical scale of the solar system .. and most folks sense of spatial awareness even of the surface of the Earth is incredibly skewed by their sense of everyday proportion. So as we look out onto the solar system, we see that the Earth is quite unique. If there is life anywhere else in the system, the public consensus is that we haven't found it yet. Reefs has some ideas about that running counter to this consensus, but they're not applicable to what I'm writing, which is relating a personal perspective from within the consensus, in any event. Contemplating the scale of the scorched dust and frozen methane and ammonia, the massive gas giant clouds that lead down into ever increasing crushing pressure with no "solid" bottom, and the practically endless expanse of barren rocks that comprise the system, the thought can occur .. "wow, and my stardust ended up here"! If one is, to any matter of degree, a functionalist, a materialist, and identifies themselves to any extent with their individuated physical body, the thought can occur .. "wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". Here, we find the secular humanist's analog to "God's Love".  |
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Post by ouroboros on Jun 5, 2023 6:58:27 GMT -5
ZD said: "I remember mentioning this to Enigma many years ago by saying something like "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," but he dismissed that as an illogical conclusion. Ironically, I wasn't trying to be logical" Task: Analyze the following in terms of no-duality and oneness. "I remember mentioning this to Enigma many years ago by saying something like "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," but he dismissed that as an illogical conclusion. Ironically, I wasn't trying to be logical" ChatGPT: In the given statement, "The whole universe is alive because we are alive," the idea of oneness and non-duality is subtly implied. The statement suggests that there is a deep interconnection between our individual existence and the aliveness of the entire universe. It implies that our aliveness is not separate from the aliveness of everything else but rather an intrinsic part of it. When the speaker mentions Enigma's dismissal of this idea as an illogical conclusion, it highlights the contrast between a logical perspective and a more intuitive or experiential understanding. The speaker acknowledges that their statement was not intended to be logical but rather an expression of a deeper sense of connection and oneness. From a logical standpoint, the statement may indeed appear illogical since it challenges the conventional notion of individuality and separateness. However, when viewed through the lens of non-duality and oneness, it can be seen as an attempt to express a profound truth about the interconnected nature of existence. A flip side to the aliveness realization/experience is an intellectual shadow based on physical scale. The physical scale of the Universe is quite mind-blowing to contemplate. Even the physical scale of the solar system .. and most folks sense of spatial awareness even of the surface of the Earth is incredibly skewed by their sense of everyday proportion. So as we look out onto the solar system, we see that the Earth is quite unique. If there is life anywhere else in the system, the public consensus is that we haven't found it yet. Reefs has some ideas about that running counter to this consensus, but they're not applicable to what I'm writing, which is relating a personal perspective from within the consensus, in any event. Contemplating the scale of the scorched dust and frozen methane and ammonia, the massive gas giant clouds that lead down into ever increasing crushing pressure with no "solid" bottom, and the practically endless expanse of barren rocks that comprise the system, the thought can occur .. "wow, and my stardust ended up here"! If one is, to any matter of degree, a functionalist, a materialist, and identifies themselves to any extent with their individuated physical body, the thought can occur .. "wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". Here, we find the secular humanist's analog to "God's Love". Agreed.
Out of curiosity, can you see how the notion of interdependent origination/conditionality, paints a slightly different picture with different implications. By-passing the pitfalls you highlight, yet at the same time acknowledging that apparency does arise? |
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 5, 2023 20:28:25 GMT -5
"wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". For me it was more like "wow, there is an invisible force holding and molding every single atom in the entire cosmos"  |
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Post by laughter on Jun 6, 2023 11:26:13 GMT -5
"Interconnection" is ultimately though an existential fallacy that's premised on what we might refer to as "object-consciousness" or what reefs has referred to as "thingness". There are no things to be interconnected, not in an existential sense. Interconnectivity is a way for a new-ager to embrace "oneness" while clinging to his or her own sense of individual existence. A flip side to the aliveness realization/experience is an intellectual shadow based on physical scale. The physical scale of the Universe is quite mind-blowing to contemplate. Even the physical scale of the solar system .. and most folks sense of spatial awareness even of the surface of the Earth is incredibly skewed by their sense of everyday proportion. So as we look out onto the solar system, we see that the Earth is quite unique. If there is life anywhere else in the system, the public consensus is that we haven't found it yet. Reefs has some ideas about that running counter to this consensus, but they're not applicable to what I'm writing, which is relating a personal perspective from within the consensus, in any event. Contemplating the scale of the scorched dust and frozen methane and ammonia, the massive gas giant clouds that lead down into ever increasing crushing pressure with no "solid" bottom, and the practically endless expanse of barren rocks that comprise the system, the thought can occur .. "wow, and my stardust ended up here"! If one is, to any matter of degree, a functionalist, a materialist, and identifies themselves to any extent with their individuated physical body, the thought can occur .. "wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". Here, we find the secular humanist's analog to "God's Love". Agreed.
Out of curiosity, can you see how the notion of interdependent origination/conditionality, paints a slightly different picture with different implications. By-passing the pitfalls you highlight, yet at the same time acknowledging that apparency does arise? Yes, although I have to admit that my knowledge on it is mostly limited to what you've written about it. Also, I'd say, any attempt to describe reality in the abstract runs a subconscious peril. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 13, 2023 4:30:16 GMT -5
Look at the following image with a still mind (the mind of a baby who doesn't know a single word yet. And what do you see? You see one big whole image. No distinctions. Now, only after learning words does the baby begin to see distinctions and name "things" in the room. ZD is always pointing to the same thing that a wise man once said when he said "except ye become as little children" you can not see the kingdom of heaven. That you can not see the forest for the trees.  I wasn't arguing that. I was just saying ZD's view doesn't fit how the classical world comes-out-of the quantum world. But, further, a baby couldn't make distinctions unless that room full of stuff already existed. I have no problem with one undivided whole. But there would not be a human mind, period, without a long process of the evolution of distinctions (not meaning separation). The human mind just didn't appear out of thin air. But the beginning, began with Consciousness. The lucky dust! |
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Post by laughter on Jun 13, 2023 4:31:30 GMT -5
ha! ha! .. I can imagine someone debating Elon Musk and cracking that term ... "oh, such lucky dust, eh?" .. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 17, 2023 15:52:02 GMT -5
The lucky dust of here and now
on about its way
always restless ever onward
be it night or day
kaleidoscopes of joy and pain
sensation tastes of pique
the universal sound it is
the dust it tries to speak
a gentle brush a cyclone wind
a tumble down a cliff
and all these words dance on the page
a hop from riff to riff
why the endless reverie?
why the ceaseless chase?
because to settle on a thorn
is not the placeless place
what is now upon the line?
the sunrise bright and pink
just another day it seems
the mundane, so to link?
No, stand still, and listen
allow the mind to loan
just one timeless second
and know you are at home
there is no blaring craving
no thirst locked in a jar
can separate the source of all
from what you feel you are
instead relax in silence
and hear the unknown known
find stillness of your being
in the motion of your bones
the lucky dust does ponder
the meaning of it all
be here and now to feel it
in glorious free fall
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Post by zendancer on Jun 17, 2023 18:02:22 GMT -5
"wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". For me it was more like "wow, there is an invisible force holding and molding every single atom in the entire cosmos" Yes. Check out the video on YouTube titled "Unveiling the universe; is everything alive?" It's similar to the "powers of ten" video that came out 30 years ago, but this one is even more mind-blowing both from an astronomical POV as well as a ND POV. It points to a question such as, "If a blood cell intelligently going wherever it needs to go and doing whatever it needs to do, had an intellect, would it be aware that it was a small part of a much vaster thing called 'a human being?' " |
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 17, 2023 20:22:08 GMT -5
For me it was more like "wow, there is an invisible force holding and molding every single atom in the entire cosmos" Yes. Check out the video on YouTube titled "Unveiling the universe; is everything alive?" It's similar to the "powers of ten" video that came out 30 years ago, but this one is even more mind-blowing both from an astronomical POV as well as a ND POV. It points to a question such as, "If a blood cell intelligently going wherever it needs to go and doing whatever it needs to do, had an intellect, would it be aware that it was a small part of a much vaster thing called 'a human being?' " Thank, ZD. I'll check it out, I have a funny story I think you'd appreciate but it will have to wait until later on. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2023 21:46:12 GMT -5
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 18, 2023 19:46:42 GMT -5
For me it was more like "wow, there is an invisible force holding and molding every single atom in the entire cosmos" Yes. Check out the video on YouTube titled "Unveiling the universe; is everything alive?" It's similar to the "powers of ten" video that came out 30 years ago, but this one is even more mind-blowing both from an astronomical POV as well as a ND POV. It points to a question such as, "If a blood cell intelligently going wherever it needs to go and doing whatever it needs to do, had an intellect, would it be aware that it was a small part of a much vaster thing called 'a human being?' " Great video! I drive Uber these days. Gave a ride to a guy yesterday who had worked interior demolition all day. He is a hard worker and likes his wine, women and song. He mentioned that a couple of inexperienced guys were almost hurt by a falling section of ceiling and how it created problems with the sprinkler system that set back the days schedule. I said that I always listen to my gut when it comes to that kinda stuff. He said "Yeah, and I always get myself in trouble when I don't". We shared a good laugh at that. But then he said something I think you'd appreciate ZD. He said "the body has an intelligence of its own". What a fun ride that one was! |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 19, 2023 4:24:42 GMT -5
Yes. Check out the video on YouTube titled "Unveiling the universe; is everything alive?" It's similar to the "powers of ten" video that came out 30 years ago, but this one is even more mind-blowing both from an astronomical POV as well as a ND POV. It points to a question such as, "If a blood cell intelligently going wherever it needs to go and doing whatever it needs to do, had an intellect, would it be aware that it was a small part of a much vaster thing called 'a human being?' " Great video! I drive Uber these days. Gave a ride to a guy yesterday who had worked interior demolition all day. He is a hard worker and likes his wine, women and song. He mentioned that a couple of inexperienced guys were almost hurt by a falling section of ceiling and how it created problems with the sprinkler system that set back the days schedule. I said that I always listen to my gut when it comes to that kinda stuff. He said "Yeah, and I always get myself in trouble when I don't". We shared a good laugh at that. But then he said something I think you'd appreciate ZD. He said "the body has an intelligence of its own". What a fun ride that one was! Indeed it does! He was a very insightful guy. |
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