fear
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Post by fear on Dec 3, 2008 20:37:21 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with fear, but in my opinion there is nothing positive that comes from it but hen you face your fears something positive takes place.
If you fear a dog it usually bites you. If you don't fear it is usually doesn't bite you.
There is no such thing as death at all for this body. The only death is the end of the illusion, the end of the fear, the end of the knowledge that we have about ourselves and the world around us. U.G Krishnamurti
"The body has to go through actual physical dying, if you have to come into your own. The fear that you felt prevented the possibility of the experience of death. Every feeling, every experience, everything that everybody felt and experienced before has become a part of your being and has to be completely flushed out. But you can't make this happen through any volition on your part. It is the fear of yourself as you know yourself coming to an end that prevented that from happening. If you had gone through the death experience, then the whole organism would have fallen into its own natural rhythm, which is discontinuous, disconnected, and disjointed. The continuity of thought would have been broken. Sorry, you missed the bus."
U.G Krishnamurti
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Post by Peter on Dec 4, 2008 8:05:23 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with fear, but in my opinion there is nothing positive that comes from it but hen you face your fears something positive takes place. Yoda said - "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." I'm not sure how much I agree with my green friend there. Fear is a natural reaction to a perceived danger. Like Anger, it can be very energising - senses get heightened, reactions get faster. But it is very much running on adrenaline, not sustainable in the long run. I see it as being positive when you can use it to assess a situation and take steps to mitigate the danger posed. Of course, when you're in the grip of an existential fear there's nothing to protect yourself from since what you fear may actually be What Is. Or maybe it's not.  That was an interesting Krishnamurti quote - thanks for that. |
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 4, 2008 11:59:20 GMT -5
Thanks for your response. Your points are well taken. What really got me was that fear (like doubt) is a vicious loop. If you resign yourself to fear then you are in fear. If you try to get rid of fear, it can only be out fear (the only thing that keeps us from saying "yes" to something on a deep level is concern of lack of safety which is what all fear essentially is), thus perpetuating more fear. See what I'm saying? The only thing that was able to resolve it for me was to realize that what was making whatever we are afraid of "bad" is the fear itself, not the thing itself. For example, fear of death is as bad as death gets. Fear of pain is as bad as pain gets, etc. Fear causes resistance, and it's the resistance that hurts. Resistance causes pain and brings feelings of lack of safety, because resisting yourself (which is all there is, and so all that can be resisted) cuts you off from yourself (or feels like it does). And being cut off from ourself IS the primal fear. It's of course, not possible to really be cut off from ourselves, but the "trying" makes it seem possible, and the running away from something (because of the fear) is the trying. If, however, if one realizes that the fear doesn't mean anything other that one is still getting used to the inherent safety of existence, then the fear can be there and it can be safe. Getting used to the reality of safety allows us to start to trust it, which allows fear to gently subside. It's totally okay if the fear rises again because it doesn't actually signify a lack of safety. It only signifies that one is still in the process of understanding that they cannot lose safety. Does that make sense? There is nothing wrong with fear, but in my opinion there is nothing positive that comes from it but hen you face your fears something positive takes place. If you fear a dog it usually bites you. If you don't fear it is usually doesn't bite you. There is no such thing as death at all for this body. The only death is the end of the illusion, the end of the fear, the end of the knowledge that we have about ourselves and the world around us. U.G Krishnamurti "The body has to go through actual physical dying, if you have to come into your own. The fear that you felt prevented the possibility of the experience of death. Every feeling, every experience, everything that everybody felt and experienced before has become a part of your being and has to be completely flushed out. But you can't make this happen through any volition on your part. It is the fear of yourself as you know yourself coming to an end that prevented that from happening. If you had gone through the death experience, then the whole organism would have fallen into its own natural rhythm, which is discontinuous, disconnected, and disjointed. The continuity of thought would have been broken. Sorry, you missed the bus." U.G Krishnamurti |
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fear
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Post by fear on Dec 5, 2008 13:15:19 GMT -5
I somewhat agree with some of what you're saying but I don't think fear will subside just because you are aware of how it works. I think you have to sit in the fear until it subsides. The simplest ways are what works. You can analyze and reanalyze but in the end you just have to do it.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 5, 2008 13:37:01 GMT -5
Sure, but how long do you have to sit in fear for it to subside? As long as there is any fear at all that it will not subside, or that it hasn't or that it will come back, then there's still fear. Now don't get me wrong: there might not be fear OF the particular thing. You can feel whatever it is you're afraid of and realize that it's safe, and then the fear OF that thing will be gone, but that isn't the release of all fear ITSELF. Fear itself can only go when you realize that it doesn't matter if it goes. It's safe. Will it go then? Who knows! It doesn't matter! Do you see what I'm saying? I somewhat agree with some of what you're saying but I don't think fear will subside just because you are aware of how it works. I think you have to sit in the fear until it subsides. The simplest ways are what works. You can analyze and reanalyze but in the end you just have to do it. |
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fear
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Post by fear on Dec 6, 2008 14:10:40 GMT -5
How can you realize that fear does not matter. If you realized it did not matter there would be no fear in the first place. It's not a logical conclusion like 1+1=2. There is fear or there isn't. If I feel fear and realize it does not matter then how could there have been fear in the first place.
I believe that fear has to burn through you. Did you read about how I got over my phobia of snakes. That fear burnt itself out through me. I shook as I sat in the fear and when it was burnt out there was no more fear. It was gone forever. It wasn't a realization that "hey I'm scared of snakes but it doesn't matter".
From what I've read from many many sources some spiritual some not have confirmed this process of burning it out.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 8, 2008 12:05:34 GMT -5
Thanks for your points. The fear is an old habit of relating, coming from the idea that certain things are not safe. You can see that the snake was actually safe, so the fear went. When you are in a position to realize that ALL of life is perfectly safe, then fear naturally dissipates. When there is no fear left OF anything specific, what tends mostly to remain is just fear that there COULD be something fearful in the future, even if there is nothing specific that one is afraid of (i.e. the resisting of fear itself). When fear itself is not resisted, even that becomes perfectly safe. In that way the issue of fear is completely resolved. At least that is my experience. The reason we could have been in fear in the first place is the misconception that we can be threatened. When the misconception goes, there can still be some unexamined ideas that must be looked at to realize definitively that it is safe. When these are thoroughly looked at, however, then the safety seems to kind of take over. The process of feeling anything painful and threatening removes the resistance and allows for the acceptance. This is the process of spiritual growth. It need not be done literally (as with the snake thing), but there's nothing wrong with that if it works for you. Basically, whatever works for you, is getting results, and is getting you permanently freer is all the matters. It doesn't matter what worked for someone else, only what works for you, as long as it can be verified that it really is working over time (i.e. meaning that once a specific issue goes it's REALLY gone, as if it was never there). How can you realize that fear does not matter. If you realized it did not matter there would be no fear in the first place. It's not a logical conclusion like 1+1=2. There is fear or there isn't. If I feel fear and realize it does not matter then how could there have been fear in the first place. I believe that fear has to burn through you. Did you read about how I got over my phobia of snakes. That fear burnt itself out through me. I shook as I sat in the fear and when it was burnt out there was no more fear. It was gone forever. It wasn't a realization that "hey I'm scared of snakes but it doesn't matter". From what I've read from many many sources some spiritual some not have confirmed this process of burning it out. |
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misc
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Post by misc on Dec 29, 2008 0:44:05 GMT -5
last winter, after an acid trip in the morning, as i was just laying and staring into the darkness of my eyes shut i realized reality- a glimpse at least. Things just came to me, realization after realization but i did not stay enlightened. I realized that all is one, that I am eternal, and that true reality is pure consciousness. The thing is though, that I never even used those terms before... days later i read books i got for christmas - teachings of the buddha, tao te ching... and it was dead on to what i experienced, coincidence or synchronicity?
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Morrie
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"Nothing is me" is the first step. "Everything is me" is the next.
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Post by Morrie on Dec 29, 2008 12:47:51 GMT -5
coincidence or synchronicity? Misc, I don't think it was coincidence. You had this spiritual experience because you were ready for it. Hopefully, that experience will serve as a guidepost that will allow you to pursue spirituality with great earnestness and ultimately achieve that level of consciousness as your permanent state (sans acid). |
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 29, 2008 13:06:08 GMT -5
David Hawkins has a theory that I relate to as well. He said that drugs suppress the lower frequencies of awareness so that we can notice the higher frequencies. While drugs can do this they also are very damaging to the body. Thus, because the body is less integrated instead of more, it certainly won't last, but it does give an honest glimpse of what is to come. These temporary higher states experiences can also come without drugs. They do end up solidifying in the end, however, and these experiences can be very useful to the process. Something that really helped me was to notice that I can go back to that experience and still have the feeling of what that openness felt like even after the experience has gone. The more I went back to it, the more I was able to learn from it. If an experience is really flashy, it means it's significantly more open than the current state, and so cannot integrate into normal life yet. No matter how wonderful an experience is, daily life starts to catch up with it, and it becomes such that it's not overwhelming anymore. Thus, not matter how great it is, there ends up being a sort of "no big deal-ness" to it, even though it really is great and really is the same experience. Thus, this experience is not a coincidence, and can, in fact, be vital to establishing that state permanently. What do you think? last winter, after an acid trip in the morning, as i was just laying and staring into the darkness of my eyes shut i realized reality- a glimpse at least. Things just came to me, realization after realization but i did not stay enlightened. I realized that all is one, that I am eternal, and that true reality is pure consciousness. The thing is though, that I never even used those terms before... days later i read books i got for christmas - teachings of the buddha, tao te ching... and it was dead on to what i experienced, coincidence or synchronicity? |
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misc
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Post by misc on Dec 29, 2008 17:50:50 GMT -5
I don't thing the experience is something to cling too, but it definitely opened up the door. I was ready I think, i have been searching for truth beforehand. And this year I was introduced to Tolle, by someone who hadn't even read the book and it rung true to me. I know for sure it was a synchronicity.. everything in the world is. I also realized other things like how the world is pretty much all symbolism. Even something about layers of consciousness (3 i think), and smaller realizations like world leaders just being reflections of the one, and the ego. But the fact that it was a glimpse, hardly makes the realizations that all is one, eternal, and pure consciousness is reality real. Im not living it anymore, which is what I am 'trying to get back'. But yes it did open the door to potential awakening.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 30, 2008 19:53:21 GMT -5
Sure, it may not be established yet, only having opened the door, but it's still there within your consciousness, it's just at level so quiet that it's difficult to appreciate. More attention on that experience will help it grow. Staying with it, without assuming that it's "gone" can really help enliven it. At least, that has helped me and a lot of others that I know... I think it's great that you are able to recognize the synchronicity in everything. It's so amazing isn't it? And the symbolic reflections and such. Just incredible. I've been having the experience lately, where different people or events will be manifestations of some part of my personality or life so that it can be dealt with physically. It's just so mind-blowing every time.... Although it's nothing to grasp onto as you say, I love different models of Awareness. It's just fun. What are the three levels of consciousness the way you look at it? I don't thing the experience is something to cling too, but it definitely opened up the door. I was ready I think, i have been searching for truth beforehand. And this year I was introduced to Tolle, by someone who hadn't even read the book and it rung true to me. I know for sure it was a synchronicity.. everything in the world is. I also realized other things like how the world is pretty much all symbolism. Even something about layers of consciousness (3 i think), and smaller realizations like world leaders just being reflections of the one, and the ego. But the fact that it was a glimpse, hardly makes the realizations that all is one, eternal, and pure consciousness is reality real. Im not living it anymore, which is what I am 'trying to get back'. But yes it did open the door to potential awakening. |
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fear
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Post by fear on Dec 30, 2008 20:48:43 GMT -5
Some would say that you were just on an acid trip. A drug induced state but drug induced or not it was real. I read about Richard Rose being very interested in peyote because the effects were a direct mind experiece. So in effect it bypassed thought. Probably similar to what happened to you. I think LSD also has a similar effect.
Your experience gives us evidence of how the world really works. It shows that reality just is, and it isn't complicated or illusive. It is our thoughts that makes things complicated and makes it illusive. Reality is for everyone, not the holy or spiritual. Our society puts labels on people to keep them where they are. If you told a priest in a church that you experienced "God" while on an acid trip, would he believe you? Science would attribute your experience to and influx of chemicals in the brain causing you to be delusional. All these elements are what keep us where we are.
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misc
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Post by misc on Jan 1, 2009 17:57:48 GMT -5
You guys are very on point... If I remember correctly the three states of consciousness are Pure consciousness, Subconsciousness, and Surface Consciousness. I think on and after the lsd trip, I penetrated all of them, realized pure consciousness is the only reality... but as of now im not even one hundred percent sure what that means, back in the ego state. I was having millions of mini realizations at once, seemingly without thought, it was just instant knowing. I only went back to drugs once, when I had these startling 'everything and nothing' realizations. A weird one, if you will, was that the world is this symbolic playing field for consciousness- and in between the everything and the nothing, there must be stillness. Symbolized in the world, the in between or the middle would be the middle east, is it any surprise that just like the human condition, the middle east is in conflict? Miniature realization was that the heart, it beats then it doesn't it beats then it doesn't, in the fashion of silence, beat, silence, beat, or everything, nothing, everything , nothing... symbolic... but the first time I had a glimpse of reality it was major - eternity and such...
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Post by sheldon on Jan 6, 2009 21:11:50 GMT -5
On January 19, 2009 at 8 PM Pacific Standard time, I ask the world to participate in a grand experiment. Go outside and light a candle and hope for a world full of love, compassion, and kindness. Let the first candles start in New Zealand at 8PM and a wave of hope will slowly travel around the globe. Visualize a world where the air is clean and the water is pure again. Visualize a world full of hope and understanding. Collectively our thoughts are powerful enough to create whatever we want now. Radiate love to your neighbors, friends, and all the people of earth and beyond. Start paying respect to mother earth and send love towards her as she is a living organism. We have abused her for far too long. The oxygen content was over 25% at one time and it is no around 18%. When it reaches below 15% you will die, so this is why we are getting help from above. Ask the forces of light to come into our world and to help bring the golden age into reality. This is what heaven wants for all of us. Until we stop killing each other and watching our fellow humans starve to death, we will never ascend.
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