Spritual experience

[FHF]

Just wanted some feedback on an experience I had one morning. A few days before the experience I remember asking kind of in a prayer to experience reality and to see what it is that so many run away from in fear and what we all have supressed for thousands of years.

Now I should say that every morning I have a few minutes of clarity where I'm not fully functioning in an awake state. During this time I'm up but I can vividly remember my dreams, as well I have an awareness of myself that disappears after that few minutes and I begin to forget my dreams from that point on also. I don't know if everyone has this too.

Anyway one morning my body awoke and I was fully aware of myself but it was a thousand time more accute, there was complete silence, I felt that nothing existed, there was no time, everything was just happening, all was now, there was no past or future, it was terrifying. When I look back on it, it must have lasted about 4-5 seconds because I woke experienced that exteme silence that scared me so much that I jumped up and was running down my hall when it faded away fast because I wanted it to go away, I could not take it, it was too much, I ran away in fear as most that are not ready for reality do. Now I know what Jesus meant when he said that "for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven was like trying to get a camel through the eye of the needle". I was aware that I would have to let go of everything and I mean everything and embrace nothingness to experience reality. The words expressed here do not in the slightest way describe how deep and real the experience was and it's so frustrating trying to describe it.

I remember seeing my entire room, but not really recognizing anything. None of it mattered in the least. It was like just pure awareness, with no thought or very little because I was afraid so there must have been some thought and something that was too afraid to go all the way. Thinking about it from human terms it seems so easy, just don't be scared and do it, but when everything you know and think you are and want to be and everything you are attached to has to let go of in an instant it is extremely terrifying. You need real courage to do it.

Anyone have some input on this. Positive or negative you can be brutally honest, I can take it.

[lightmystic]

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing your experience. Sounds like you're moving in a really wonderful direction.

In the earlier stages of seeing this it can look empty, like void. It can be extremely threatening because it doesn't appear to contain "you". Therefore, it appears to be the brink of your own annihilation. All fear that anyone feels ultimately from the stems from that. Going to the brink as you did is not a small thing.

And now that you've seen it, it cannot be unseen. You know that what is real appears not to contain you in it, and you would be right to a certain extent. It suggests that there's no reality to FHF (the person which is what has always felt like you up to this point) or anything else for that matter. Although this is a terrifying prospect, it cannot actually annihilate you, but it requires some serious examination of what you are to find that for yourself for real. Only deep examination of your gut level emotional beliefs are going to get to the level which this will be safe. You can't just change your opinion (as I'm sure you know from seeing how real and intense the experience is). All of the ideas and concepts of who and what you are can be discovered, for real, to be just ideas that you have been identifying with. Thus, by discovering that everything defined as you is just something you merely believed yourself to be, you can start to accept that what looked like "void" is actually who and what you have ALWAYS been. It's not ultimately dark or empty at all. You are that "void" right now, but it's actually infinitely full. It only looks empty because it's not being seen clearly (after all, how can anyone see something clearly when they've spent their whole life trying not to look at it? How can anyone see it clearly when the terror is so all consuming? It's not possible at first.) This is a natural process that anyone who is serious about Enlightenment goes through at some point or other, each in their own way, and, although you may wish to take it back (I think many of us have at some point - I know there were many points where I did ) it's actually a wonderful and profound step. Avoiding Awakening will be difficult at this point, which is great, but the more you can allow yourself to release and let go, the more you can allow yourself to examine the nature of the feelings of the fear, etc., the more you will be able to really allow the true nature of yourself as That to come to light.

And I can assure you that, ultimately, it's beautiful. Words cannot describe. You only have to give up everything you ever wanted to have that.

[FHF]

Thanks for the reassuring words light mystic. It's a relief to hear from someone that has experienced this. What really helped was you saying that the void I'm so afraid of is not actually void, it's is void of me but not void at all.
Knowing all this does not make me a better person, I'm just the same sinner but I have a heightened awareness of my actions and hurt that I may cause and this causes me to stop doing damage either to myself or others but only when I'm aware of it. I feel that the road is getting rockier especially with those around me because I'm growing and leaving others behind and there is nothing I can do to help them. In their eyes I appear negative and depressing because I speak of things they don't want to believe. E.g the love we know is not true love, it's selfish love. Or that marriage is an institute of power and control.
These views and others are beginning to isolate me and it makes life lonelier but like you said there is no going back even if you wanted to.

I have a question for you though, How do you Lightmystic know that you have reached enlightenment?

[Peter]

Man I'm in a phenomenally good mood this morning. Maybe it was having caffeinated tea for breakfast for a change, or maybe it's because my boss is away. Well, we'll see how long it lasts. In the meantime, I think I'll listen to Handel at high volume

Nov 21, 2008 1:41:30 GMT -5 @FHF said:

In their eyes I appear negative and depressing because I speak of things they don't want to believe. E.g the love we know is not true love, it's selfish love. Or that marriage is an institute of power and control. These views and others are beginning to isolate me and it makes life lonelier but like you said there is no going back even if you wanted to.

Hi FHF, welcome to the board.

I take caution in speaking to people of things they don't want to believe - it will most likely have a negative impact. In the film The Matrix, Morpheus says something relevant:

Morpheus : You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependant on the system, that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

Something that you might find helpful is reading what Mouravieff had to say about Strategic Enclosure and The General Law: www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Strategic_enclosure

But that doesn't mean that you need to feel cut off from others who aren't treading the same path as you. My son is two and as self centred and unaware as any two year old could be. He doesn't care about how my day was, or what chores I've got to get done. He just wants me to PLAY! NOW! With SWEETIES if possible. I find that when I'm present and aware it's much easier to get into his world and enjoy his company, letting go of the things I think I need to do. When I'm distracted and 'busy', then I'm more likely to get frustrated that I can't do what I want to do. In a similar way, your spiritual work will hopefully allow you to be more present to your family and friends and get into their worlds, rather than trying to pull them kicking and screaming into yours.

Perhaps marriage does involve power and control, but then the same is true of all relationships. Actually the boss/employee relationship even more so, but then no one is pretending that that relationship is supposed to be about love and mutual support. Has any organisation that's ever existed been free from politics and power struggles? As long as any member in a group has something that they 'want', there's always going to be some sort of influence being played out, and being "awake" (or thinking that you are) doesn't do much to protect you from that, other than that you'll hopefully deal with it (in both yourself and others) more skilfully.

There are two ways to look at being held in a prison: Either you could swear and fume and curse about being locked up, or you could look on it as a great opportunity to meditate, get fit, read, write your memoires, etc.

[lightmystic]

I was very lucky to have some very wonderful, integrated people guide me in my process. Their helpfulness in understanding what was going on with me allowed me to have a sort of context for what was going on, and so to be able to integrate and allow the process a lot better.

This is my Experience/understanding of Enlightenment in brief. It's not a linear process so ultimately all models are just real basic pointers but it's seemed to work pretty well in general. It's not the definitive "right one", because no model is, but it gets the job done.

Awakening: I Am That.
The Void is realized to be none other than who and what you've always been. Culturing a relationship to that void allows it to be recognized. This can be frightening as the old idea of you gets gently dissolved. Thus, you discover yourself to be an immutable infiniteness that cannot truly ever be destroyed.

Unity. Thou Art That.
Growth of the heart and sensitivity allows the Light of the Divine in. This can be experienced in terms of God or not, depending what the person wants. There starts to be a recognized unification with everything. That which you are seems to start to bleed into the rest of reality and that recognition of the sameness between That which you are and That which everything else is starts to dawn. During this period a gentle unification/sameness with whatever objects are perceived appears and/or gets more frequent. This period is generally characterized by a lot of light, and I call it "Enligthenment of the individual" because that's what it felt like to me. There was also the beginning of Awareness of my own Cosmic Body, and it being the same as Gods body, and that unification started to take place, becoming the main focus.

Brahman. All This is That.
The previously "Enlightened Self" disappears, leaving an experience of utter perfection and no-self. No more edges. It encompasses all of Creation. Impossible to explain. The paradox of 100% duality and 100% nonduality (with the duality and nonduality not being separate from each other) sets in.
As it turns out, it doesn't matter if you are a sinner or not. This cannot be deserved or undeserved. You are allowed to still have issues and still the self can disappear. This is stable, and at this point was the feeling "aah, THIS is it."


That's the rough outline in my experience. Everything after that is understood to be totally automatic. The whole process can be talked about many ways and they can all be correct. You may contact me if you have any questions, which I can either answer on the board or in a private message.

Nov 21, 2008 1:41:30 GMT -5 @FHF said:

Thanks for the reassuring words light mystic. It's a relief to hear from someone that has experienced this. What really helped was you saying that the void I'm so afraid of is not actually void, it's is void of me but not void at all.
Knowing all this does not make me a better person, I'm just the same sinner but I have a heightened awareness of my actions and hurt that I may cause and this causes me to stop doing damage either to myself or others but only when I'm aware of it. I feel that the road is getting rockier especially with those around me because I'm growing and leaving others behind and there is nothing I can do to help them. In their eyes I appear negative and depressing because I speak of things they don't want to believe. E.g the love we know is not true love, it's selfish love. Or that marriage is an institute of power and control.
These views and others are beginning to isolate me and it makes life lonelier but like you said there is no going back even if you wanted to.

I have a question for you though, How do you Lightmystic know that you have reached enlightenment?

[sophia]

Light,

There you go again with that 11:11 post time stamp!

[lightmystic]

Amazing! It looks like life is real clear when it wants your attention! Awesome.

[FHF]

that 11:11am thing is amazing.
So Light, you believe you have achieved true success. I am doubtful of all who believe that because I've just never run into the real deal. Not that you have to prove youself to anyone but There are so few that have been able to go all the way. Not to say that you are not one of them but many achieve bliss by identifying with the observer and think that this is it but it isn't.

You may well be a fully realized being and I want that to be true more than you know but more importantly for yourself, you cannot underestimate the ego. I know from what you write that you are operating at a high level, I'm just not sure you've gone all the way. So here is my very own enlightend being test.

Do you experience fear?
Are you ready to die at any moment?
Are you free from physical pain?
Give me an example of true love?
What emotions do you experience?
What is a human being's purpose in life?
Can you forgive anyone and everyone? including Hitler, yourself.
What can we learn from the past?
What would you say to Einstein?
What is karma?
What are our actions? (where do they stem from)

[sophia]

How can we test for enlightened beings when we ourselves are not enlightened?

If you have a test to test others with, you must be enlightened.

[lightmystic]

Hi Fear/FHF.

These are great and interesting questions, I would be happy to address them.

Firstly, I could not possibly agree more that spiritual bliss experiences and Enlightenment are not the same thing. In fact, if the bliss is overwhelming, then it's not integrated. Enlightenment, as I understand/experience it, means the INTEGRATION of those experiences so that, no matter how flashy or nice they are, they are also normal. There's no-big-deal-ness to it, because it's so natural and is no longer overwhelming.

Do you experience fear?

Yes and No. On some level no relative experience is excluded from Enlightenment. It's all inclusive. That said, the relationship to everything changes so dramatically that fear becomes a natural function instead of something causing pain/discomfort. In terms of fear, I discovered that fear is higher alertness of the body/mind - more awareness. It's experienced as fear when it's blocked (i.e. blocked meaning the flow of the experience is blocked through rejection of it - "I don't want this experience, make it go away"). Thus, what was previously thought to be fear is discovered to actually just being more alertness, which is not experienced the way I used to experience fear (i.e. it's not painful). So based on that you can decide whether that counts as still experiencing fear or not.

Are you ready to die at any moment?

Definately, you cannot love life without loving death just as much.
Now, I've noticed that my body sure wants to live, and, in general, I support that.


Are you free from physical pain?

Again, nothing is excluded. Physical pain (as I had always conceived and experienced it) was discovered to actually be intense bodily sensation/awareness accompanied by fear - i.e. trying to be blocked off. Without trying to block it off, there's nothing bad about physical pain. It's just greater awareness, it cannot hurt you. Think about it, people into Masochism actually get bliss from being hurt. Not that being hurt arouses me (necessarily <evil grin> ) but it's the relationship to intense sensation (what I would have experienced as pain before) that determines how it's experienced. This is not an intellectual thing and it's not a choice. Without fear, it cannot be "painful", with fear, it cannot but be painful. To answer your question, no I'm in perfect health as of right now, so there is no physical pain, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. This body will pass like any other, and Enlightenment does make someone become numb. If anything it makes the sensations clearer, but there isn't the pain of limitation, which is the reason people are so afraid of these things.

Give me an example of true love?

To me, true love is the ever expanding total devotion to That which cannot be said. That unbelievably loving unknown that is in life and is life. Where everything becomes fascinating and gratitude wells up at every turn. And that is life. It's not overwhelming necessarily, and it can be very soft and gentle, but it's always there. It's loving devotion to That which is me and not me. That is All. It cannot be described.
Ever.
Whew.


What emotions do you experience?

All of them. Enlightenment is not about being an automaton. It's recognizing that everyone already is (at least that's one way of talking about it).


What is a human being's purpose in life?


Purpose implies separation. Everyone has their "story" and their reason for being on the planet at this time, but that is all part of the dream. Who is there outside my Awareness? The other people are there for me, the Creator of my reality, and I am there for them. We are not different. There are many ways the question could be answered. We are here to have fun, to show up, for every reason and no reason. We could tell any story about why we are here. But I created us - not as an individual- but I AM That which created all of us. Your welcome.
And of course so are you, so Thank You.


Can you forgive anyone and everyone? including Hitler, yourself.

Of course, what is there to forgive? Everyone does their function, their job.

What can we learn from the past?

I find that any experience that sticks in one's mind means that they still have knowledge that can be gotten from it. Generally, once all the knowledge has been received, the memory is gone until it needs to come up again for any reason. The more important question, I think, is what can we learn from the present? The current lesson is always the one we are learning now, and so is much more relevant from my perspective.

What would you say to Einstein?

It would probably be a very long, very interesting, and very enjoyable conversation. A lot of my experience of reality matches perfectly with his discoveries. It's very exciting, especially when some of these correlations aren't discovered after I have the experience. I'll have an experience and describe it, and someone will say, "oh yeah, quantum physics says that's how it works too." It's amazing to me.

What is karma?

Karma is the rules of action and interaction. Essentially, it's the natural result of our actions. If we say the world is bad and push everyone away, then we have no friends. That is karma in action. If we love the world as much as ourselves, then everyone and everything becomes accessible to us, that is karma in action. Whatever we create for ourselves, or whatever lesson life is giving as a result of where we are and where we are trying to get (life helps us along a lot) is karma. All action interaction is karma. It is unfathomable ultimately.
Ultimately, it's all the play of the dream world. It's Maya. It's what life does.

What are our actions? (where do they stem from)

"Action" is something we define as happening from the assumption of a separate self. "I am a separate person who does X thing." That is the idea. In reality, life acts, the body/mind acts, and we just identify with it and feel limited or don't and enjoy. It sounds detached, but that would only be true if it were separate from you. It's like watching your heart beat. You're not "beating you heart", although I suppose you could try to take credit for it. But the fact that your heart is going automatically doesn't limit you or make you detached from it.

Are those answers clear?

Nov 23, 2008 10:33:26 GMT -5 @FHF said:

that 11:11am thing is amazing.
So Light, you believe you have achieved true success. I am doubtful of all who believe that because I've just never run into the real deal. Not that you have to prove youself to anyone but There are so few that have been able to go all the way. Not to say that you are not one of them but many achieve bliss by identifying with the observer and think that this is it but it isn't.

You may well be a fully realized being and I want that to be true more than you know but more importantly for yourself, you cannot underestimate the ego. I know from what you write that you are operating at a high level, I'm just not sure you've gone all the way. So here is my very own enlightend being test.

Do you experience fear?
Are you ready to die at any moment?
Are you free from physical pain?
Give me an example of true love?
What emotions do you experience?
What is a human being's purpose in life?
Can you forgive anyone and everyone? including Hitler, yourself.
What can we learn from the past?
What would you say to Einstein?
What is karma?
What are our actions? (where do they stem from)

[swamicollins]

FHF--you experienced the FALSE insight that MIND generates just as ALL these other poster have done and mistaken the experience for the "real thing"-the experience of UNION with CReation is not in the Slightest frightening or delusive--in order to experience CREATION on a one to one basis one must COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY dissolve Mind/Conditioned IDentity-the "I"(the Conditioned Identity can only experience what you and All others Experience -that is Generated by MIND using your Intellect your Imagination and the Gullibility that comes from Inexperience-do not look for guidance from Peter or LM or Sophia as these three are Fantasisers who cling to Mind and its delusions
Read my Free Ebook in its entirity--
www.experientialknowingness.co.uk

[swamicollins]

FHF
Fear is the incorrect reaction to Adrenalin flow
Death will come when it is ordained due to yourc stockpiled Karma
No one is free from Physical pain-the Body experiences physical pain from many sources
The Id-Entity Does NOT NEVER EVER Experience any kind of Pain-the Id-Entity is the real you-the Mind Generated Conditioned Identity has the perpetual inner pain of always being in DUALITY(Separation from CREATION)
There are ONLY two Kinds of Love
1)"False" Love is the Love generated by Mind that all others who post here live with and are limited by-it is CONDITIONED LOVE from the Mind created CONDITIONED IDENTITY and is not accepted by CREATION-CREATION Does NOT accept Mind generated "realities" as CREATION is on a much "higher" vibrational Level
2)"True" LOVE is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE that is generated by CREATION (the Id-Entity is a
part of Creation)-"true Love" can only be generated by one who has dissolved Mind/Conditioned Identity Permanently and Totally
Emotions are CREATIONS gift for us to enjoy the pleasure that life brings
there are Two kinds of Emotions
1)Mind Emotions that are unpleasurable
2)Id-Entity generated Emotions that are Pleasurable in the Extreme
A Human Beings purpose in life is to solve existentially the Riddle of Life which is THREE
distinct Questions(see my other earlier posting "CREATION")
!) Who am I??
Why am I here??
What is my purpose when I have solved the first Two Questions??
The Second question is obvious--it is to solve the answers to the 1st and 3rd Questions
The first question is solved by dissolving Mind/Conditioned Identity and BECOMING into UNIO with CREATION
The Third Question is to Enjoy Life whilst in UNION with CREATION permanently sharing the Body that you inhabit at the moment on a shared basis with Mind/Conditioned Identity
Unconditional LOVE does NOT forgive--Unconditional LOVE "sees" the pain and suffering that those in MIND generate through lifetime after lifetime unceasingly=One can only "forgive" oneself through the process of REDEMPTION through REPENTANC(a longish painful
"enlightening"processthat can only be passed through by following the YOGIC Path laid down in my Free Ebook--www.experientialknowingness.co.uk
All we can learn from the past is to avoid the Mistakes that others have made and passed on as Knowledge-Mistakes that are detailed by others on these threads as certain "knowledge" of Cosmic Reality
I would say to Einstein THREE things
1)hello and how are you??
2)why did you use your brain to create the absolute EVIL of Nuclear Weapons
3) Read my Free Ebook --www.experientialknowingness.co.uk
KARMA comes in THREE kinds only
1)Good Karma-the accumulation of which is Mind generated and ties one to the Wheel of Life Death Rebirth unceasingly
2) Bad Karma which is Mind Generated and Ties one to the Wheel of Life Death Rebirth unceasingly
3 Neutral Karma which is ONLY generated by the Id-Entity(miscalled the Eternal Self)and which frees one from the Wheel of Life Death Rebirth by dissolving Mind and its puppet the Conditioned Identity
Your actions(as you identify with Mind and Conditioned Identity as "you) come from Mental activity and take place in the satate of DUALITY/Non-Duality which is the field of operation created by Mind/GroupMind
My actions are instigated by Me (in consultation with CREATION-I am NOT its puppet as unlike the false "gods" CREATION gave us life to set us Free)as I am Mindless(Not to be confused with the "religious trick of No-Mind"-my actions are to preserve my life in all its variety and to assist CREATION in ushering in Satya Yug

[swamicollins]

FHF-Read my Free Ebook the following way
Sit Naked in a Silent Warm room with NO external distractions such as Music or Incense or Views or other People or animals
Read the Book cover to cover without missing one word--ALOUD
Read it every day for SEVEN consecutive days
CREATION may lift you beyond MIND totally if it believes that you are sincere

[swamicollins]

FHF --LM is a complete fraud-he has read a few books and synthesised an inaccurate (LIEING)version of what he "thinks" "enlightenment"is in order to decieve people onto believing he is "there"--forget his strings of Fine sounding but Meaningless words(Meaning is in the Existential sense-his meaning derive from other words ONLY)-this Blog is full of Frauds who pretend to be what they are NOT in order to suck others energy from ersatz admiration from the gullible.This is a Man that defends Raping Babies because His "great sages" say it is ok!!

[lightmystic]

Hehe, I suppose it's true that I am, for the most part at peace with reality. I of course don't condone raping babies, but to argue that it should not exist is not productive and does not solve the problem. For me to suffer because babies are theoretically being raped somewhere doesn't make sense. Now two people suffering (me and the theoretical baby). How is that helpful?

In terms of Enlightenment, I only have my own experience, and it seems to fit with the common definitions of Enlightenment. You can call it something else if you like. The word Enlightenment is just another label, and a misleading one at that. This is because it sounds like a "thing", which it isn't. It's more like when the mind stops trying to grasp, to have control. It's when the mind stop trying to make life into "things."

I only go on my direct experience, and that, of course, grows and changes over time like all of ours does, but it seems to be always clarifying of who and what we are, and it's amazing.

Anyway, that's my honest response to all this business.