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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 31, 2023 8:28:45 GMT -5
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 2, 2023 7:01:11 GMT -5
Krishnamurti tells the story of two devils, young and old, one in training, watching this guy find some significant truth, Truth even. The young devil says to the older, Oh! Wow!...I guess we've lost that guy, he's found some Truth. The older devil says, Na, I'm going to help him organize it.
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Post by laughter on Apr 4, 2023 20:07:37 GMT -5
Krishnamurti tells the story of two devils, young and old, one in training, watching this guy find some significant truth, Truth even. The young devil says to the older, Oh! Wow!...I guess we've lost that guy, he's found some Truth. The older devil says, Na, I'm going to help him organize it. |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 5, 2023 12:42:01 GMT -5
Speaking of Krishnamurti, I recently attended some Krishnamurti zoom groups and I found it ironic that K, who was fiercely anti-guru, is now a guru for many of his followers and they go around repeatedly asking the same questions that K used to ask his audiences. During one meeting someone asked, "Is it possible to see without thought?" I immediately answered, "Sure," to which the questioner replied with irritation and anger, "You can't say that!" I almost laughed because I had obviously just said what he said I couldn't say. It took a few more interactions before it became obvious that many of his followers do not think that answers to existential questions can be found and they think that the only valid position is to remain as an eternal questioner. I didn't hang around long because I could see that I was antagonizing people who were very attached to Krishnamurtism.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 5, 2023 15:07:07 GMT -5
Speaking of Krishnamurti, I recently attended some Krishnamurti zoom groups and I found it ironic that K, who was fiercely anti-guru, is now a guru for many of his followers and they go around repeatedly asking the same questions that K used to ask his audiences. During one meeting someone asked, "Is it possible to see without thought?" I immediately answered, "Sure," to which the questioner replied with irritation and anger, "You can't say that!" I almost laughed because I had obviously just said what he said I couldn't say. It took a few more interactions before it became obvious that many of his followers do not think that answers to existential questions can be found and they think that the only valid position is to remain as an eternal questioner. I didn't;t hang around long because I could see that I was antagonizing people who were very attached to Krishnamurtism. Yea. Krishnamurti was basically IT for me for about 5 years, 1971-1976. He would always end with, and this understanding leads to action. Well, I thought I'd understood him, but it didn't lead to any action. (I read his books, didn't watch videos). So I got that there was something I was not getting. But what I did get from Krishnamurti was that attention was the answer. Then I saw this advertisement in a magazine for a book called Basic Self-Knowledge by Harry Benjamin. Benjamin had been "devoted" to Krishnamurti, as had I. He went into extensively what Krishnamurti taught, and compared that to Nicoll/Gurdjieff in the Commentaries (over 1,700 pages, the 5 volumes) on the Teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. He said that Nicoll told one how to do what Krishnamurti merely talked about. So that sold me, I ordered the book, and also a book by this Gurdjieff guy, Meetings With Remarkable Men. This was about February 1976. Before the books came I saw a notice in a bookstore, Public Lecture, Main Library, time, Gurdjieff Method self-study. Went to the lecture, met my teacher, who was to become my teacher in about a month, my teacher essentially introduced me to the Gurdjieff teaching. He didn't do the lecture, a student did. But to a small group that gathered afterwards, he announced a follow-up meeting, which I attended. And after that meeting, the follow-up, I knew there was nothing on Earth that could keep me from the next meeting the next week. No, Benjamin doesn't exactly say in the book how to do the practices, as I found out later when the book came. But my teacher knew, he made attention become very real from that second meeting and onward. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 6, 2023 20:39:10 GMT -5
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 14, 2023 13:06:48 GMT -5
Once there was a king who often consulted with astrologers on affairs of the kingdom. One day the astrologer predicted that on the seventh day there would be rain, and whoever drank water from then on would become crazy. The king didn't want to become crazy so he covered his well so that the rain would not go inside. Nobody else knew about this prediction. The rain came down, and as the astrologer predicted, when everyone drank the water, they all became crazy except the king. But as time went by, the way the king acted and what he said was very different from everyone else. People in the kingdom started calling the king "the crazy one". It seemed they might eventually plan to topple the king, and perhaps he was attached to his power. Out of such desperation to remain king, he drank the regular water, and he too became crazy, which was normal in the eyes of everyone else.
This tale is chilling because not only does it point out that collectively, the human world is run by delusion, totally oblivious to the ultimate truth, but it also points out that it is not easy to wake up. The force of the world holding us back in delusion is somehow stronger than the force to wake up. We need to bear that in mind. page 67 The Citadel of Awareness by Anam Thubten (Tibetan Buddhist), 2021
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I first heard that story many years ago from the Sufi tradition.
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Post by inavalan on Apr 14, 2023 14:31:12 GMT -5
Once there was a king who often consulted with astrologers on affairs of the kingdom. One day the astrologer predicted that on the seventh day there would be rain, and whoever drank water from then on would become crazy. The king didn't want to become crazy so he covered his well so that the rain would not go inside. Nobody else knew about this prediction. The rain came down, and as the astrologer predicted, when everyone drank the water, they all became crazy except the king. But as time went by, the way the king acted and what he said was very different from everyone else. People in the kingdom started calling the king "the crazy one". It seemed they might eventually plan to topple the king, and perhaps he was attached to his power. Out of such desperation to remain king, he drank the regular water, and he too became crazy, which was normal in the eyes of everyone else. This tale is chilling because not only does it point out that collectively, the human world is run by delusion, totally oblivious to the ultimate truth, but it also points out that it is not easy to wake up. The force of the world holding us back in delusion is somehow stronger than the force to wake up. We need to bear that in mind. page 67 The Citadel of Awareness by Anam Thubten (Tibetan Buddhist), 2021 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I first heard that story many years ago from the Sufi tradition. NO. You aren't crazy. That isn't a spiral.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 14, 2023 16:24:31 GMT -5
Once there was a king who often consulted with astrologers on affairs of the kingdom. One day the astrologer predicted that on the seventh day there would be rain, and whoever drank water from then on would become crazy. The king didn't want to become crazy so he covered his well so that the rain would not go inside. Nobody else knew about this prediction. The rain came down, and as the astrologer predicted, when everyone drank the water, they all became crazy except the king. But as time went by, the way the king acted and what he said was very different from everyone else. People in the kingdom started calling the king "the crazy one". It seemed they might eventually plan to topple the king, and perhaps he was attached to his power. Out of such desperation to remain king, he drank the regular water, and he too became crazy, which was normal in the eyes of everyone else. This tale is chilling because not only does it point out that collectively, the human world is run by delusion, totally oblivious to the ultimate truth, but it also points out that it is not easy to wake up. The force of the world holding us back in delusion is somehow stronger than the force to wake up. We need to bear that in mind. page 67 The Citadel of Awareness by Anam Thubten (Tibetan Buddhist), 2021 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I first heard that story many years ago from the Sufi tradition. NO. You aren't crazy. That isn't a spiral. That's a cool effect. Try this one: www.google.com/search?q=van+gogh+starry+night+appears+moving+painting&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS894US894&oq=Van+Gogh%27s+starry+night+appears+moving&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i22i29i30l3.20543j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ee268270,vid:46hcgq1T6Jg |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 15, 2023 1:49:10 GMT -5
Once there was a king who often consulted with astrologers on affairs of the kingdom. One day the astrologer predicted that on the seventh day there would be rain, and whoever drank water from then on would become crazy. The king didn't want to become crazy so he covered his well so that the rain would not go inside. Nobody else knew about this prediction. The rain came down, and as the astrologer predicted, when everyone drank the water, they all became crazy except the king. But as time went by, the way the king acted and what he said was very different from everyone else. People in the kingdom started calling the king "the crazy one". It seemed they might eventually plan to topple the king, and perhaps he was attached to his power. Out of such desperation to remain king, he drank the regular water, and he too became crazy, which was normal in the eyes of everyone else. This tale is chilling because not only does it point out that collectively, the human world is run by delusion, totally oblivious to the ultimate truth, but it also points out that it is not easy to wake up. The force of the world holding us back in delusion is somehow stronger than the force to wake up. We need to bear that in mind. page 67 The Citadel of Awareness by Anam Thubten (Tibetan Buddhist), 2021 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I first heard that story many years ago from the Sufi tradition. This is a simplistic story designed to make certain points, draw conclusions, and make recommendations that we may or may not agree with. If anything, it could be a basis for pondering, even for a discussion. Me, I wouldn't drink regular "crazy" water. But I also think that telling "crazy" people that they're crazy won't "uncrazy" them, and won't make your life easier. Faking it, potentially with no end in sight, would probably drive you crazy too. What would be the solution? I don't think that there is a reasoning solution. Fortunately, there is intuition, an incipient human trait that most of us cannot use properly, but that we could learn to by turning inwards and accessing our own individual source of knowledge and guidance. The more you practice it, the better you get. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 15, 2023 8:04:00 GMT -5
Once there was a king who often consulted with astrologers on affairs of the kingdom. One day the astrologer predicted that on the seventh day there would be rain, and whoever drank water from then on would become crazy. The king didn't want to become crazy so he covered his well so that the rain would not go inside. Nobody else knew about this prediction. The rain came down, and as the astrologer predicted, when everyone drank the water, they all became crazy except the king. But as time went by, the way the king acted and what he said was very different from everyone else. People in the kingdom started calling the king "the crazy one". It seemed they might eventually plan to topple the king, and perhaps he was attached to his power. Out of such desperation to remain king, he drank the regular water, and he too became crazy, which was normal in the eyes of everyone else. This tale is chilling because not only does it point out that collectively, the human world is run by delusion, totally oblivious to the ultimate truth, but it also points out that it is not easy to wake up. The force of the world holding us back in delusion is somehow stronger than the force to wake up. We need to bear that in mind. page 67 The Citadel of Awareness by Anam Thubten (Tibetan Buddhist), 2021 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I first heard that story many years ago from the Sufi tradition. This is a simplistic story designed to make certain points, draw conclusions, and make recommendations that we may or may not agree with. If anything, it could be a basis for pondering, even for a discussion. Me, I wouldn't drink regular "crazy" water. But I also think that telling "crazy" people that they're crazy won't "uncrazy" them, and won't make your life easier. Faking it, potentially with no end in sight, would probably drive you crazy too. What would be the solution? I don't think that there is a reasoning solution. Fortunately, there is intuition, an incipient human trait that most of us cannot use properly, but that we could learn to by turning inwards and accessing our own individual source of knowledge and guidance. The more you practice it, the better you get. So you're going to correct the writer of the book.  |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 15, 2023 15:03:32 GMT -5
This is a simplistic story designed to make certain points, draw conclusions, and make recommendations that we may or may not agree with. If anything, it could be a basis for pondering, even for a discussion. Me, I wouldn't drink regular "crazy" water. But I also think that telling "crazy" people that they're crazy won't "uncrazy" them, and won't make your life easier. Faking it, potentially with no end in sight, would probably drive you crazy too. What would be the solution? I don't think that there is a reasoning solution. Fortunately, there is intuition, an incipient human trait that most of us cannot use properly, but that we could learn to by turning inwards and accessing our own individual source of knowledge and guidance. The more you practice it, the better you get. So you're going to correct the writer of the book. I didn't "correct" the author ... I always "intuitively interpret" the knowledge behind the message and the messenger. I conspicuously crossed out that author's interpretation of that simplistic story because I really didn't care for it. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 18, 2023 18:23:50 GMT -5
So you're going to correct the writer of the book. I didn't "correct" the author ... I always "intuitively interpret" the knowledge behind the message and the messenger. I conspicuously crossed out that author's interpretation of that simplistic story because I really didn't care for it. But he wouldn't have put the story in his book, otherwise. The Sufi version is a little different, I like his better. But they both end the same. |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 18, 2023 21:39:31 GMT -5
I didn't "correct" the author ... I always "intuitively interpret" the knowledge behind the message and the messenger. I conspicuously crossed out that author's interpretation of that simplistic story because I really didn't care for it. But he wouldn't have put the story in his book, otherwise. The Sufi version is a little different, I like his better. But they both end the same. I just disagreed with his interpretation of the story. His interpretation reflected his beliefs, and his level of evolvement. My interpretation reflected mine. |
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), take two minutes to watch this, please.