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Post by laughter on Apr 21, 2023 7:58:14 GMT -5
 Relax dude, it's just banter. Did you watch the clip? It's one of the most seminal monologues in the English language. The source of at least three cliche's that I can think of off the top of my head. One of them is: "beware entrance to a quarrel".  .. that's about as simple as it gets.  Which part of my two lines did you assume were not "relaxed"? Rhetorical question.  I think it would be better now to drop the topic if you don't mind. I'd invite you to consider the possibility that the source of "To Thine own self be true" is more interesting than the ad-hominem facets of this dialog. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 9:13:34 GMT -5
It is difficult to communicate with him as pointing out that he is not attentive can be perceived as an attack, causing a problem. Additionally, he may not take well to having his ideas challenged and may interpret it negatively. FWIW, I never mind anyone challenging ideas as long as it relates to ideas and doesn't involve denigration and ad hominem-type comments. In fact, it helps to avoid "I/you" statements altogether. Rather than writing that someone one disagrees with is ignorant, blind, etc., write about whatever ideas have been expressed. Most sages encourage skepticism and frequently say, "Don't accept what I'm saying as anything other than a pointer. Each human must find the truth for him/herself." ok |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 9:16:39 GMT -5
Which part of my two lines did you assume were not "relaxed"? Rhetorical question. I think it would be better now to drop the topic if you don't mind. I'd invite you to consider the possibility that the source of "To Thine own self be true" is more interesting than the ad-hominem facets of this dialog. Of course that's true. And when you have such a low view of a person that you think you need to "teach" them that, it's probably better to not talk to them at all. |
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Post by tenka on Apr 21, 2023 14:00:31 GMT -5
... . I tend to question the hardcore peeps that take a stance where what they say is true and is realised when it clearly isn't . ... . Those "hardcore peeps" would say the same thing about you. Wouldn't they? Nobody's the "clear" arbiter of truth. This is exactly like this week's BBC interview with Musk, accusing him of enabling misinformation on t witter, and Musk's response: is BBC the arbiter? I doubt it because I don't have a hardline stance about what was realised in reflection of the reality lived . I question those that do . If one has transcended mindfulness then one would know what I mean in regards to this . If you for instance said that this world reality is a dream and there are no other individuals that exist then I would question that, if you based that on a realisation . Does that make me hardcore? |
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Post by tenka on Apr 21, 2023 14:04:50 GMT -5
I appreciate the time your taking to put your point across .. It doesn't however answer most of what I have asked .. No worries .. I will leave it there . We are all basically saying, why can't you see that I am right? ....excepting a few, andrew, zazeniac, lolly is just presenting his view. Yes, I present my view, but don't expect anyone too see from it. Basically, the beginning, is just the camel getting its nose under the tent, that's the way it works. Most of us operate from our own interests, it's difficult to get out of that mode, almost impossible. It's like the guy who fell off the Empire State Building. All the way down he kept saying, So far so good. When I did tree work, my boss said, It's not the fall that get's you, it's that sudden stop. This is pretty cool, Doctor Who basically did it for love, I had to find a longer clip, hopefully this one shows the skulls, those are all his skulls. I don't really know where you are coming from . I asked you some basic questions, to which you answered you don't know to one, and you didn't answer some of the other's . Like said you are welcome to practice what you do .. and believe what you do, like we all are . I am not one for watching links and videos as a way of explaining where one is coming from . Answers really should just roll off the tongue because of what one has experientially understood . My questions are not difficult . |
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Post by tenka on Apr 21, 2023 14:10:49 GMT -5
It's not a bad thing taking a less serious stance and view of things . I tend to question the hardcore peeps that take a stance where what they say is true and is realised when it clearly isn't . It's good to play around with ideas and notions and potentials, butt when the tide turns, it turns . yes, and I think part of the deal here is that it's okay to question and challenge each other. We may have gone a bit overboard with that 10 years ago...and when I say 'we', I should really say 'me'! For me, my questioning reflects the attitude that other's bring to the table . If one wants to explore potentials and speak about analogies and hypotheticals then we can all happily dance the night away and have a good old group hug afterwards .. From experience and your experience, not all convos are like that . You get the so called self realised and self righteous peeps that put other's down based upon what they supposedly realised and you supposedly haven't . I question that, sometimes it's lighthearted sometimes not . Depends on the energy presented . |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 21, 2023 14:17:26 GMT -5
Those "hardcore peeps" would say the same thing about you. Wouldn't they? Nobody's the "clear" arbiter of truth. This is exactly like this week's BBC interview with Musk, accusing him of enabling misinformation on t witter, and Musk's response: is BBC the arbiter? I doubt it because I don't have a hardline stance about what was realised in reflection of the reality lived . I question those that do . If one has transcended mindfulness then one would know what I mean in regards to this . If you for instance said that this world reality is a dream and there are no other individuals that exist then I would question that, if you based that on a realisation . Does that make me hardcore? For example: that is your opinion, and I doubt its validity. You might point again that I din't "transcend ..." and that's why I can't know. I would reply that I believe your idea of a mindfulness transcendence is by your beliefs. There is no arbiter to break the tie. You'd leave with your opinion, and I would leave with mine. Stopping such an argument, the sooner the better. I used "hardcore" only quoting you, with no special emphasis. By the way: to me "one has transcended mindfulness" means nothing. I don't think that this is what one should look for. On the other hand, it is your path and your current conviction. |
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Post by tenka on Apr 21, 2023 14:19:25 GMT -5
Just to throw a spanner in the driving works, Abraham has actually said that the reason that there are relatively so FEW accidents on highways is because people enjoy their car space, relax, and allow themselves to often drift into happy thoughts while driving. This is probably less true in cities, when our attention is demanded a lot more on the roads, and actually people are then grumpier drivers. I've done tons of driving in my life, often drift into thought, and yet my alert responses seem to be amazing...they often surprise me... perhaps because I'm NOT focusing that much on the road. My responses may be better when the attentive 'I' is only slightly focused on what's happening. I have done still mind exercises while driving, but I usually enjoy listening to music more, and the music often takes me to interesting and good places. I said to one of my boys the other day when I went to visit him that I can't remember the last 15 minutes of my journey lol . I even shocked myself and thought wtf. One particular time when I did a run in a forest I came round and I was 20 ft away from a load of deer munching on the grass, they didn't notice me until I noticed them or vice versa .. Again, I was shocked as much as they were. It's impossible to navigate around the forest with your eyes shut, but the issue I would say here is remembering that one was aware of running when one only remembers the point of running because there wasn't awareness of it at the time hahah .. It's a slightly different kettle of fish, but many don't realise what they get up to when one goes to sleep at night until they awaken in the morning although one was always consciously aware . |
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Post by tenka on Apr 21, 2023 14:23:40 GMT -5
I doubt it because I don't have a hardline stance about what was realised in reflection of the reality lived . I question those that do . If one has transcended mindfulness then one would know what I mean in regards to this . If you for instance said that this world reality is a dream and there are no other individuals that exist then I would question that, if you based that on a realisation . Does that make me hardcore? For example: that is your opinion, and I doubt its validity. You might point again that I din't "transcend ..." and that's why I can't know. I would reply that I believe your idea of a mindfulness transcendence is by your beliefs. There is no arbiter to break the tie. You'd leave with your opinion, and I would leave with mine. Stopping such an argument, the sooner the better. I used "hardcore" only quoting you, with no special emphasis. By the way: to me "one has transcended mindfulness" means nothing. I don't think that this is what one should look for. On the other hand, it is your path and your current conviction. I think you're jumping the gun here . Can I ask you however if you have transcended mindfulness? You see, if there was no self thought or self awareness then how could there possibly be a realisation that your family members are dreamy characters? I suppose with you saying that transcending mindfulness means nothing to you answers my question . It makes no sense for someone to dismiss something if one hasn't experienced that something . That's just common sense . |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 21, 2023 14:37:55 GMT -5
For example: that is your opinion, and I doubt its validity. You might point again that I din't "transcend ..." and that's why I can't know. I would reply that I believe your idea of a mindfulness transcendence is by your beliefs. There is no arbiter to break the tie. You'd leave with your opinion, and I would leave with mine. Stopping such an argument, the sooner the better. I used "hardcore" only quoting you, with no special emphasis. By the way: to me "one has transcended mindfulness" means nothing. I don't think that this is what one should look for. On the other hand, it is your path and your current conviction. I think you're jumping the gun here . Can I ask you however if you have transcended mindfulness? You see, if there was no self thought or self awareness then how could there possibly be a realisation that your family members are dreamy characters? I suppose with you saying that transcending mindfulness means nothing to you answers my question . It makes no sense for someone to dismiss something if one hasn't experienced that something .
That's just common sense . There are many things that can and should be dismissed without experiencing. " That's just common sense." But you see ... Your "common sense" and mine are different. This is the crux of this exchange, of my point: each one of us believes he knows better. We dismiss each other's views, but somewhat in a different way. I think thisit is because we come from different places in regards to reality, to what we are, to what we can and should be doing here. Not sure what you mean there. I don't say those. It is what you believe? The members of my family are not dream characters. Who / what doesn't have self-awareness? I believe everything has self-awareness, in specific ways, at its level of evolvement. I don't know what "self thought" means. EDIT: I am not looking for mindfulness. I am not looking to transcend anything. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 21, 2023 14:48:12 GMT -5
There's this guy, I think he comes on Vice, but he's basically a Red Neck from Tennessee who took ayahuasca and it basically fixed-his-problem. So now he gives it to people who come to him with problems. I watched several episodes about a year ago. He seems very sincere, helps people. Yea, would like to hear a report. Thanks. My friend said it was the most horrific experience of his life. 20 people in a room on mattresses either throwing up or diarhea. You're incpacited so if it's the latter, you have to raise your hand and they help you to an open bathroom. He described it is as "traumatic". But he had quite a trip. Very personal so no details, but he described traveling the cosmos and examining his life back to his birth. He said his old self died. His past dissipated, the pain, angst. He felt reborn. Plus some back pain he was experiencing that required surgery according to his ortho, went away. I'm curious, but not enthralled. Happy with my path as it is. Yea, maybe slower is better. That sounds like a crash course. ....When I was in Ojai in 1980 for the Krishnamurti talks and questions and answers, and all the videos you could ever want to watch, camping next to me at Lake Casitas there was a guy named Elad Ophir. He said he had in his tent sand from Israel, he had just come from there. The highest I had ever gotten, I drank 6 beers once, that is, all at once, a little pot a few times. He told me he had some LSD, I could do some if I wanted. I considered (over 3 & 1/2 weeks). Declined (in the sense of never saying yes). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 21, 2023 14:51:26 GMT -5
We are all basically saying, why can't you see that I am right? ....excepting a few, andrew, zazeniac, lolly is just presenting his view. Yes, I present my view, but don't expect anyone too see from it. Basically, the beginning, is just the camel getting its nose under the tent, that's the way it works. Most of us operate from our own interests, it's difficult to get out of that mode, almost impossible. It's like the guy who fell off the Empire State Building. All the way down he kept saying, So far so good. When I did tree work, my boss said, It's not the fall that get's you, it's that sudden stop. This is pretty cool, Doctor Who basically did it for love, I had to find a longer clip, hopefully this one shows the skulls, those are all his skulls. I don't really know where you are coming from . I asked you some basic questions, to which you answered you don't know to one, and you didn't answer some of the other's . Like said you are welcome to practice what you do .. and believe what you do, like we all are . I am not one for watching links and videos as a way of explaining where one is coming from . Answers really should just roll off the tongue because of what one has experientially understood . My questions are not difficult . I should have stopped, here. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Apr 21, 2023 20:38:43 GMT -5
It occurred to me this morning that trances and ego (in Tolle's meaning of the word) are very similar. In this regard, I would say yes to the similarity between the two, ultimately it all comes down to awareness being spellbound by anything but itself. In this temporary existence, it seems, the most important choices we can make are a matter of where we choose to place our attention. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Apr 21, 2023 20:49:46 GMT -5
I always worked with my subconscious. When I was working on a difficult problem and I encountered a roadblock, I took a break, took a walk, had a chat with a friend, then when I returned to my problem I found the way through. ZD is correct, Tolle speaks to this directly in his book "the Power of Now" It seems that part of the argument is caused by the different meaning people give to "thinking" Tolle also uses terms/words in a similar way to many on this forum. In his book he explains the meaning of those terms like no other. If you haven't read it, I would recommend it. |
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Post by zazeniac on Apr 22, 2023 7:01:54 GMT -5
My friend said it was the most horrific experience of his life. 20 people in a room on mattresses either throwing up or diarhea. You're incpacited so if it's the latter, you have to raise your hand and they help you to an open bathroom. He described it is as "traumatic". But he had quite a trip. Very personal so no details, but he described traveling the cosmos and examining his life back to his birth. He said his old self died. His past dissipated, the pain, angst. He felt reborn. Plus some back pain he was experiencing that required surgery according to his ortho, went away. I'm curious, but not enthralled. Happy with my path as it is. Yea, maybe slower is better. That sounds like a crash course. ....When I was in Ojai in 1980 for the Krishnamurti talks and questions and answers, and all the videos you could ever want to watch, camping next to me at Lake Casitas there was a guy named Elad Ophir. He said he had in his tent sand from Israel, he had just come from there. The highest I had ever gotten, I drank 6 beers once, that is, all at once, a little pot a few times. He told me he had some LSD, I could do some if I wanted. I considered (over 3 & 1/2 weeks). Declined (in the sense of never saying yes). Good. It's what got you where you are. Wouldn't trade places with anyone. |
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Relax dude, it's just banter. Did you watch the clip? It's one of the most seminal monologues in the English language. The source of at least three cliche's that I can think of off the top of my head. One of them is: "beware entrance to a quarrel". 
.. that's about as simple as it gets. 
I think it would be better now to drop the topic if you don't mind.
