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Post by inavalan on Apr 19, 2023 20:57:24 GMT -5
I can't disregard my physical-body, because that's the vehicle I'm using while awake in the physical-reality. I am not using it at its potential because of my conscious and unconscious beliefs, and because of my current level of evolvement. Gestalts are different from other groupings of elements because of their relation with the composing elements. That's fundamental. . I’m curious to know the name of your practice or teaching, does it have one? Are there any prominent teachers you respect that I could check out? I don't follow any teacher or dogma. That is what I recommend to everybody: to turn inwards and tap their individual source of knowledge and guidance. All external sources will add their distortions, caused by their beliefs and level of evolvement. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Apr 19, 2023 21:14:46 GMT -5
. I’m curious to know the name of your practice or teaching, does it have one? Are there any prominent teachers you respect that I could check out? I don't follow any teacher or dogma. That is what I recommend to everybody: to turn inwards and tap their individual source of knowledge and guidance. All external sources will add their distortions, caused by their beliefs and level of evolvement. OK. You clearly have a set of beliefs/principles that you adhere to. How did you come to believe in them? |
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Post by inavalan on Apr 19, 2023 21:36:30 GMT -5
I don't follow any teacher or dogma. That is what I recommend to everybody: to turn inwards and tap their individual source of knowledge and guidance. All external sources will add their distortions, caused by their beliefs and level of evolvement. OK. You clearly have a set of beliefs/principles that you adhere to. How did you come to believe in them? Step by step. I was never religious, nor attracted to spirituality. At some point in my life I felt a strong need to get some answers. Looking back, I believe I (as everybody) was always guided by my inner-guide, offered lessons and choices. Some of those I misunderstood, others I missed completely, until I eventually discovered self-hypnosis, and one day I got my first direct contact with my inner-guide. I asked everything I could think of, and received answers. In time I realized that the answers I received had multi-level meaning, and the more I understood, some of the answers had deeper meaning, that some of my interpretations needed adjustment. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 22:58:49 GMT -5
Did you learn to drive the car to the point where it became a subconscious action, and now you are subconsciously driving the car? Or is it possible that since everything in the universe is intelligent, that it is actually All That Is driving the car while you are daydreaming? Which of these explanations do you believe is accurate? Nice Gopal, this is a point I've been trying to make, here, for years. Thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 23:01:49 GMT -5
The argument that has been brought up multiple times is that driving a car is a learned technique that becomes subconscious and automatic. It is not driven by some kind of infinite intelligence. If this were the case, then accidents would never occur. Humans differ from crocodiles in that while crocodiles can walk and swim immediately after birth, humans must learn to walk before they can do so. Once we learn something, it becomes subconscious and automatic, meaning that our conscious mind is no longer necessary. Have you ever been driving your car and become lost in thought, only to suddenly encounter heavy traffic or a difficult situation? This requires your conscious attention to be redirected to the task at hand. Why doesn't the All That Is take care of it and allow you to remain in your thoughts? sdp likes multiple times. You're not going to get anywhere with ZD. I've had this dialogue with him off and on, for years. He bent just a little a few days ago, admitting there is such a thing as the brain and brain processing (my words). Years ago I gave the image of an hourglass. The top and bottom (and vice versa) are like the Whole. The narrow opening in the middle where just a little sand passes through is like a persons mind-brain-body-consciousness processing information. And ZD just said no, it doesn't work that way, it's always the Whole in action. But Gopal, on this, you are light years ahead of ZD. Your understanding surpasses ZD an untold amount. It's like there is a blockage for ZD, how he can't see this. I would just shake my head and walk away, give up. I support you 100%. I think lolly would also support you in this. lolly is a very smart dude too. Karma, and it's operation in the universe, just cannot be denied. But ZD always has this blank check in his pocket: Too bad, you just don't understand. Bull manure. When anyone thinks in yes or no, there's a problem. The higher includes yes and no. I tried to go into the two truths one time, how there is absolute Truth OTOH and relative truth OToH. He just pulled his magic wand out, No, not correct, there is ONLY ONE TRUTH. I'm glad somebody else here has some ____s to stand up to ZD's nonsense. (sdp added the emphasis). It is difficult to communicate with him as pointing out that he is not attentive can be perceived as an attack, causing a problem. Additionally, he may not take well to having his ideas challenged and may interpret it negatively. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 23:26:55 GMT -5
Yes, exactly!
For years, I have noticed that he is trapped within his own beliefs, making it difficult for him to acknowledge alternative perspectives. He appears unwilling to entertain the idea that someone else might have a valid point of view, and this has prevented him from being receptive to feedback or criticism I don't consider that an ad hominem attack, Gopal is just stating facts. The blood in your veins would freeze if you read some of the things I've read here on ST's forum. I simply stated a fact and did not intend to attack him. It appears that his only interest is in teaching, and if others attempt to teach as well, he perceives it as an attack. I encountered a similar individual on a technical forum called Stack Overflow who is highly ranked in Selenium, but lacks a basic understanding of the subject. When I attempted to correct him, he was not receptive to the idea. He even created a post in the user section claiming that I was causing trouble. Although some people defended me and others supported him, ultimately nothing was resolved. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 23:28:16 GMT -5
Exactly! And that's why airplane pilots fly simulators so that the body gets trained to respond to possible emergencies much faster than thought can occur. At mach 2 there is no time to think if a sudden emergency arises. Linear thinking is incredibly slow compared to what the body can instantly do. FWIW, I've had exactly the same kind of experience you've described and the body began to take evasive action much faster than I could have thought what to do. Two weeks ago a guy who disarmed a mass shooter with an assault rifle was interviewed on TV. The reporter asked, "What were you thinking when you lunged at the guy and grabbed his gun?" The fellow responded, "I wasn't thinking!"  OK, I have to take a break. But don't you see that's all Gopal is saying? One particular mind-body-brain-consciousness is acting, as it has been trained. Gopal is very clear. Yes |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2023 0:42:43 GMT -5
Obviously driving a vehicle with a quiet mind is safer for all concerned  Because sadly the roadways are almost always full of emotional basket cases captured by thoughts about this or that So true. I would much rather be driving on a highway with people who are silently attentive than people who are lost in thoughts. [...] I can think of many other examples of this, but if someone has never attained any degree of mental silence, or experienced sustained mental silence, then s/he would have no basis for understanding or judging what's being pointed to. [...] There is a significant difference between someone with no experience of mental silence, and someone who is hostile to it. If you've been around this subject matter for a long time, you can forget that this stuff is extremely threatening to some people (some egos) for various reasons, and it should not be discussed with just anyone. There are some old stories where a prospective monk would have to wait outside monastery to prove that he or she was interested. It doesn't need to be that extreme, but some filter is required. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:04:55 GMT -5
Your argument doesn't stand. I tell you that you are the ones who can't see beyond your "mental silence". You can't see beyond because you're hypnotized into not seeing (like the girl with her shoe in her hand and looking around for it). You haven't experienced seeing beyond because you're stuck behind your belief. You're looking in the wrong direction. You'll remember my words. .. and there are a myriad of somatic characteristics of "inner silence" as well of course. I'm sure the machinists of the world can relate that in terms of lower blood pressure and higher (or more stable) dopamine/serotonin (or other neurotransmitter) levels, and they can probably even explain the "universal sound" that you initiated the dialogs about once years ago. .. heh heh ... |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:13:26 GMT -5
FWIW, I've had exactly the same kind of experience you've described and the body began to take evasive action much faster than I could have thought what to do. I was surprised at my own reaction in the aftermath. There was no adrenaline rush, no excited or upset thoughts, I didn't even look in the rear view mirror. There was a moving on mostly though I did marvel then and over the next few days in gratitude for being saved from disaster like that, and I did wonder briefly what might have caused that driver to put us in that situtation. I realized it could be anything; youth, inexperience, impatience, anger, suicide by wreck, anything, and let it go too. Inavalan is right about one thing. There is nothing to be proud of or take credit for. One can only marvel.  just THIS THIS'n .. after all ... |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:17:35 GMT -5
What I've read of the fire quote was that it was "the world is on fire". Which is a potential insight about entropy, which may or may not evoke a poignant chord. Perhaps one of the Buddhist scholars can weigh in. Maybe he used it the way you meant it in a different talk. Well, house makes it very personal, immediate. Yes, but it's also a completely different metaphor. Out of the frying pan, into the fire, after all. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:25:07 GMT -5
Insistenting , polite or not, that your view is the only possible truth there is and everyone else is wrong to think other than you do is the arrogance/ignorance I speak of. And you were plenty polite. You tempered your words with "kinda" when in in reality his behavior his extremely arrogant and ignorant. He's also trolling and gaslighting people. I'm reminded of one the most practical bits of advice that Polonius had to give. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:27:56 GMT -5
Insistenting , polite or not, that your view is the only possible truth there is and everyone else is wrong to think other than you do is the arrogance/ignorance I speak of. You misunderstood. That isn't my position. Read my signature: ' Although I don't always write it explicitly, it should be inferred that everything I post is "my belief", "my opinion" on that subject, at that moment.'For me, the only source of knowledge is my inner-source. I don't rely on what others say (not even Seth, that I occasionally quote). ' When I post quotes it is because they make a point I agree with to some degree, and not as an argument, nor because I've learned something from them.' I repeatedly wrote that I know that I distort things, and I'm doing my best to reduce distortions. I never wrote that " I know", as others do. Even if I misformulated something, my signature should've made that clear. I believe that I'm neither arrogant, nor ignorant. But so do you, and everybody on this site. As I previously stated, ignorance to some degree is inherent (at different levels). When you add arrogance it becomes stupidity, so I am careful not to be stupid. That's one of the reasons for which I wrote to you and the other one that you don't know what you're talking about. You and the other two, made my original commentary about being irresponsible to drive while meditating, to be about something else: your non-dual beliefs, and now about me. I think that you honestly don't know what you are talking about. Inner silence, in motion, is other than a void. Now, a "void" .. there are some interesting aspects of that, as well, potentially. But clearly, in motion and action, reaction and interaction .. that's not a void. But this inner space that's referred to, is certainly defined, by what is absent. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 20, 2023 2:29:37 GMT -5
Again, this is what started all this unpleasant exchange, and I haven't deviated from it, in spite of all those unrelated replies. Obviously driving a vehicle with a quiet mind is safer for all concerned Because sadly the roadways are almost always full of emotional basket cases captured by thoughts about this or that |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 20, 2023 2:33:22 GMT -5
You are the most nit-picky poster I have ever seen here. Your other recent post, you said your view is somewhat different from my view. Somewhat must mean about 1/2 of 1%, I didn't see much difference from my view. And then somehow it seems you can post something one day and the exact opposite the next day. I could swear to god that you've said for you there is no physical universe, previously, and here you are saying there is, and most of all you can't disregard your physical body. I must be losing my mind. But you make my very point, you CAN'T disregard the physical body, that's what I wanted you to see. But we agree today, no problem. Yes on both. The way I understand these, the physical-reality is a virtual framework for learning. There is no objective physical-reality observed by participants. All participants are interconnected, and based on the information they exchange everyone's subconscious creates a version of the physical-reality that the outer-ego perceives through the physical-senses associated to a virtual physical-body, an avatar. When immersed in the awake state, the outer-ego, due to societal conditioning, has no idea that everything is virtual. I cannot disregard my physical-body when awake because that's my avatar with which I participate in the virtual physical-reality. But there is no objective physical-body. All the interconnections are at non-physical level. All is virtual, and all I perceive and I experience is based on my personality's state of consciousness and its focus (direction, and depth). OK, in principle no problem with any of that. ? Is there a shared "virtual framework"? |
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