|
Post by andrew on Sept 4, 2022 14:42:59 GMT -5
Yes, I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment of the bolded, are you suggesting a more intuitive approach to life then? I guess other more pro-science folks here might say that modern science is far more messy than classic science, but I still get your point. Thinking it a little more, it seems a shame to waste our human intellectual capacity, so perhaps science still has its place, but ideally if folks are rooted in intuition first....what do you think? Of course, science does have its place but as our tool and not the other way round. This comes back to the question about what we are. Are we human beings living on planet earth? Science (i.e. our auto-mindset) says we are. Some guy here said that we are more than what science says. Was he on auto-pilot when he uttered that? If he was, then what he said has no value.
Are we on auto-pilot right now as we speak? I am not. I don't know where you are speaking from and it doesn't matter because earth has no place in this conversation. It does not exist. You are just a voice in my head when I read your posts.
Isn't it great that we have found a technological way (internet) to become one movement of thought? Imagine a coming together - every one of us as manifestations of formless energy guided by intelligence - working together to fulfill not just all our bodily needs but satisfy our desires living in a beautiful natural paradise.
It all begins with a dream.
If the idea that we are 'human beings living on planet earth' is a rational thought (and I agree it is), what are you in the absence of that rational thought? Are you a 'window of perception'? Are you 'formless energy'? I very much like the wording I bolded. I'll afford myself the luxury of one more question on that though....when you speak of 'bodily needs', are you saying that you believe there is a 'physicality' of sorts?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 4, 2022 18:26:38 GMT -5
Anyone can follow any question to its end. You are either satisfied, or you find another question. Some people repeat this process their whole life, or become satisfied or give up. But some questions, lead somewhere, and ~you~ are lucky if they will not let you go. The only thing grasping you so, is yourself. And not even that, because it's not the real you. That's the point, some questions can take the mind to the end of its tether. That's the real beginning.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 4, 2022 18:33:52 GMT -5
I think Sagan peeked something deeply. He could not have written Contact, if he hadn't. He had some very deep existential insights, but ultimately his mind rested on the Universe as a machine. The wonder of all the vast scales in space, time and diversity of form, were enough for Carl. Getting past ~your~ ~own~ "boatman", the small s self, is not so easy. He might not ever have even asked, who am I?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 4, 2022 18:38:57 GMT -5
Perception isn't reality, that's nonsense. Philip K. Dick “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” From your definition, there are many in mental hospitals.I wish. But we are all running loose in this forum, in the streets and all over the world controlling humanity as leaders of nations and world religions. We are all mad, stardust. No wonder you tried to end the misery back when you returned to Virginia from Colorado. You were immersed in a world of toxic human energy. And all you had at the age of four was one sane protector, your grandfather. And you lost him. Now, that is a situation that can make me cry but not Gandhi and the asinine advice to find an orphan and raise him to become someone fit for a mental hospital.
I knew I was the problem. I didn't know what the solution was.
|
|
|
Post by sree on Sept 4, 2022 22:20:46 GMT -5
I wish. But we are all running loose in this forum, in the streets and all over the world controlling humanity as leaders of nations and world religions. We are all mad, stardust. No wonder you tried to end the misery back when you returned to Virginia from Colorado. You were immersed in a world of toxic human energy. And all you had at the age of four was one sane protector, your grandfather. And you lost him. Now, that is a situation that can make me cry but not Gandhi and the asinine advice to find an orphan and raise him to become someone fit for a mental hospital.
I knew I was the problem. I didn't know what the solution was. Good lord! You have got it backwards. You were not the problem. The world was the problem. Did you not read R D Laing?
When you were four, you needed a world filled with people like your grandfather. Even if your grandfather died then, you would have millions more people like your grandfather to be with you.
Where is abscissa? We need a woman to explain that to you. And I mean a real woman.
|
|
|
Post by sree on Sept 4, 2022 23:05:42 GMT -5
Of course, science does have its place but as our tool and not the other way round. This comes back to the question about what we are. Are we human beings living on planet earth? Science (i.e. our auto-mindset) says we are. Some guy here said that we are more than what science says. Was he on auto-pilot when he uttered that? If he was, then what he said has no value.
Are we on auto-pilot right now as we speak? I am not. I don't know where you are speaking from and it doesn't matter because earth has no place in this conversation. It does not exist. You are just a voice in my head when I read your posts.
Isn't it great that we have found a technological way (internet) to become one movement of thought? Imagine a coming together - every one of us as manifestations of formless energy guided by intelligence - working together to fulfill not just all our bodily needs but satisfy our desires living in a beautiful natural paradise.
It all begins with a dream.
If the idea that we are 'human beings living on planet earth' is a rational thought (and I agree it is), what are you in the absence of that rational thought? Are you a 'window of perception'? Are you 'formless energy'? I very much like the wording I bolded. I'll afford myself the luxury of one more question on that though....when you speak of 'bodily needs', are you saying that you believe there is a 'physicality' of sorts? Do you talk to your wife the way you are conversing with me now? That would be one heck of a relationship. I recall reading Krishnamurti musing about himself having such a relationship. Wouldn’t that be simply magic: two minds communing at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity? I am not saying that you and I are in love, but you get the point. Right?
The oneness of humanity is not a fanciful dream. It is an attainable state. Imagine the power we can harness to wipe out insecurity, anxiety, and fear in the human consciousness. The transformation of our world would be as effortless as the melting of snow in the warmth of the sun.
This conversation of ours could take place between the US President and the President of Russia. If those two guys were you and I, do you think we can agree to disarm, get rid of nuclear weapons and our military forces? China would come along because they need a stable world to grow their economy and lift more of their people out of poverty. What is the possibility of this wishful thinking becoming real? It would be like a 1 in 300 million chance of winning a Mega million lottery. And yet, millions of people bet on it day after day. And someone does win! Why won’t we make a more worthwhile bet on changing our world for the better for all mankind? If we channel our psychic energy in this direction, we have a chance to win this existential jackpot. Krishnamurti is dead and gone. I am just one guy in this world now making this bet.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2022 2:29:52 GMT -5
If the idea that we are 'human beings living on planet earth' is a rational thought (and I agree it is), what are you in the absence of that rational thought? Are you a 'window of perception'? Are you 'formless energy'? I very much like the wording I bolded. I'll afford myself the luxury of one more question on that though....when you speak of 'bodily needs', are you saying that you believe there is a 'physicality' of sorts? Do you talk to your wife the way you are conversing with me now? That would be one heck of a relationship. I recall reading Krishnamurti musing about himself having such a relationship. Wouldn’t that be simply magic: two minds communing at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity? I am not saying that you and I are in love, but you get the point. Right? The oneness of humanity is not a fanciful dream. It is an attainable state. Imagine the power we can harness to wipe out insecurity, anxiety, and fear in the human consciousness. The transformation of our world would be as effortless as the melting of snow in the warmth of the sun.
This conversation of ours could take place between the US President and the President of Russia. If those two guys were you and I, do you think we can agree to disarm, get rid of nuclear weapons and our military forces? China would come along because they need a stable world to grow their economy and lift more of their people out of poverty. What is the possibility of this wishful thinking becoming real? It would be like a 1 in 300 million chance of winning a Mega million lottery. And yet, millions of people bet on it day after day. And someone does win! Why won’t we make a more worthwhile bet on changing our world for the better for all mankind? If we channel our psychic energy in this direction, we have a chance to win this existential jackpot. Krishnamurti is dead and gone. I am just one guy in this world now making this bet. lol yes, we've done a ton of spiritual talk over the years, we met each other on a spiritual forum in fact. We come from slightly different points on the spiritual spectrum, so whereas she inspires me to dream and create, I'm more boring, and offer groundedness. I guess we are a pretty good balance for each other. I share your view of humanity's potential, I spend time around new age people, and believe that we are actually on the precipice of change right now. My family are a big driving force for me, I want better for them (and me) than this world has had to offer. But in a sense, I don't feel like this change is a 'special' change, it's more of a natural sane change, like returning fish to water. It's the crazy way the world has been, that is extraordinary. If you still want to answer the first questions I asked...you'd be very welcome....?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 5, 2022 6:31:13 GMT -5
I knew I was the problem. I didn't know what the solution was. Good lord! You have got it backwards. You were not the problem. The world was the problem. Did you not read R D Laing?
When you were four, you needed a world filled with people like your grandfather. Even if your grandfather died then, you would have millions more people like your grandfather to be with you.
Where is abscissa? We need a woman to explain that to you. And I mean a real woman.
No, the boatman is the problem. But that's why we need to know that the real individuality is essence. You can't change the world, all you can change is your relationship to the world. That means sree has to change.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:11:18 GMT -5
No, not a request. Just an observation. Just pointing out how easy it could be if you'd only be serious. People sometimes confuse spirituality with psychology. And there are indeed some overlaps, but IMO spirituality starts where psychology ends. And when people are still hung up on personal psychological issues, it can be difficult to make that transition. But you're not the only one here who is stuck in an endless loop. I guess this just can't be helped. It's probably part of an internal clearing process for many. In that sense, forums can be helpful, if there is sincerity. If there isn't, these forums usually only perpetuate or even speed up the endless self-referential loop. I appreciate the clarification. You have no idea how much I have reaped in my short time here. I used the analogy of playing in a tennis match when I debate with members here. We all have different styles of play. Getting mad with an opponent is telling, isn't it? Especially, when we are dealing with anger issues.
I realize that my style of play is abnormal. While folks here are focused on argumentation and cleverness in debate, I pay attention to the evidence of the devil's presence in us. You may call it psychology but I view it as a lot more sinister. I won't bore you with my perceptions.
Please let me know if I stray too close to the fence of forum rules. I tend to push it to the limits when discourse is yielding fruit.
You really believe that you haven't been the clever one in our dialogs? Really? Genuinely? Seriously?
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:17:56 GMT -5
The only thing grasping you so, is yourself. And not even that, because it's not the real you. That's the point, some questions can take the mind to the end of its tether. That's the real beginning. Well, but at that point the tether breaks, and the question no longer has any hold. Questioning for the sake of questioning can be a sort of "defense from the infinite", a deliberate game of hide and seek. The seeker who decides to be a seeker for life doesn't want to find, and doesn't want to be found.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:19:54 GMT -5
He had some very deep existential insights, but ultimately his mind rested on the Universe as a machine. The wonder of all the vast scales in space, time and diversity of form, were enough for Carl. Getting past ~your~ ~own~ "boatman", the small s self, is not so easy. He might not ever have even asked, who am I? Oh no, we know he did because he had an answer to that question. Do you recall off hand what it was? No worries if you don't, because I do, and I'll be glad to repeat it to you.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:22:51 GMT -5
I knew I was the problem. I didn't know what the solution was. Good lord! You have got it backwards. You were not the problem. The world was the problem. Did you not read R D Laing?
When you were four, you needed a world filled with people like your grandfather. Even if your grandfather died then, you would have millions more people like your grandfather to be with you.
Where is abscissa? We need a woman to explain that to you. And I mean a real woman.
Related to "perception is reality" - although far more conceptually lightweight - is that "the world" is complimentary to your sense of "I". The two completely define one another. So, this is essentially a distinction without a difference.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:25:33 GMT -5
Do you talk to your wife the way you are conversing with me now? That would be one heck of a relationship. I recall reading Krishnamurti musing about himself having such a relationship. Wouldn’t that be simply magic: two minds communing at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity? I am not saying that you and I are in love, but you get the point. Right? The oneness of humanity is not a fanciful dream. It is an attainable state. Imagine the power we can harness to wipe out insecurity, anxiety, and fear in the human consciousness. The transformation of our world would be as effortless as the melting of snow in the warmth of the sun.
This conversation of ours could take place between the US President and the President of Russia. If those two guys were you and I, do you think we can agree to disarm, get rid of nuclear weapons and our military forces? China would come along because they need a stable world to grow their economy and lift more of their people out of poverty. What is the possibility of this wishful thinking becoming real? It would be like a 1 in 300 million chance of winning a Mega million lottery. And yet, millions of people bet on it day after day. And someone does win! Why won’t we make a more worthwhile bet on changing our world for the better for all mankind? If we channel our psychic energy in this direction, we have a chance to win this existential jackpot. Krishnamurti is dead and gone. I am just one guy in this world now making this bet. lol yes, we've done a ton of spiritual talk over the years, we met each other on a spiritual forum in fact. We come from slightly different points on the spiritual spectrum, so whereas she inspires me to dream and create, I'm more boring, and offer groundedness. I guess we are a pretty good balance for each other. I share your view of humanity's potential, I spend time around new age people, and believe that we are actually on the precipice of change right now. My family are a big driving force for me, I want better for them (and me) than this world has had to offer. But in a sense, I don't feel like this change is a 'special' change, it's more of a natural sane change, like returning fish to water. It's the crazy way the world has been, that is extraordinary. If you still want to answer the first questions I asked...you'd be very welcome....? You're the grounded one. .. ..
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2022 7:28:14 GMT -5
He had some very deep existential insights, but ultimately his mind rested on the Universe as a machine. The wonder of all the vast scales in space, time and diversity of form, were enough for Carl. Getting past ~your~ ~own~ "boatman", the small s self, is not so easy. He might not ever have even asked, who am I? .. and, it's only ever that fake thieving mall cop that thinks that "gettting past his own boatman" is "hard".
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2022 7:44:26 GMT -5
lol yes, we've done a ton of spiritual talk over the years, we met each other on a spiritual forum in fact. We come from slightly different points on the spiritual spectrum, so whereas she inspires me to dream and create, I'm more boring, and offer groundedness. I guess we are a pretty good balance for each other. I share your view of humanity's potential, I spend time around new age people, and believe that we are actually on the precipice of change right now. My family are a big driving force for me, I want better for them (and me) than this world has had to offer. But in a sense, I don't feel like this change is a 'special' change, it's more of a natural sane change, like returning fish to water. It's the crazy way the world has been, that is extraordinary. If you still want to answer the first questions I asked...you'd be very welcome....? You're the grounded one. .. .. LOL that made me chuckle! Yes, I see your point! Now I'm thinking about it, I guess it's more true to say that in some ways I'm more grounded, and in some ways Jenn is....if we get a flat pack from Ikea, it's not going to be me figuring out how to put it together! (I'll turn the screws and hit the nails with a hammer)
|
|