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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2022 10:06:49 GMT -5
It's not a bad pointer, and I haven't seen it expressed that way by any other source old or contemporary. E' spent many pages pointing out to gopal how gopal had misinterpreted and misapplied it. Yes. For Gopal, perception and creation are the same. But he has to make clear what's occurring in the consciousness of Gopal, and what occurring in Consciousness. That's why sdp considers it vital, crucial, obligatory, to make a distinction between an inside and an outside in some sense. But I basically gave up on that [zd discussion] years ago. A new thread maybe explores all this. Is the thought/belief-based structure of SDP consciousness happening in Consciousness? Then, if the structure of SDP collapsed, what would be the expression used?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 25, 2022 10:26:03 GMT -5
Yes. For Gopal, perception and creation are the same. But he has to make clear what's occurring in the consciousness of Gopal, and what occurring in Consciousness. That's why sdp considers it vital, crucial, obligatory, to make a distinction between an inside and an outside in some sense. But I basically gave up on that [zd discussion] years ago. A new thread maybe explores all this. Is the thought/ belief-based structure of SDP consciousness happening in Consciousness? Then, if the structure of SDP collapsed, what would be the expression used? I'll get back to this, need to walk now...... but it can-be complicated. Depends upon how ripe. Very ripe just touch and it falls, easy. Still green ripe-it-off-the-tree, creates a mess. But, yes, there are maps, but then there is the territory. But you are correct, any reply will only-be a kind-of-map. But throw out belief, we throw out belief from day one. #1 "rule", must verify everything. Obligatory. The short answer, essence.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2022 10:31:45 GMT -5
Is the thought/ belief-based structure of SDP consciousness happening in Consciousness? Then, if the structure of SDP collapsed, what would be the expression used? I'll get back to this, need to walk now...... but it can-be complicated. Depends upon how ripe. Very ripe just touch and it falls, easy. Still green ripe-it-off-the-tree, creates a mess. But, yes, there are maps, but then there is the territory. But you are correct, any reply will only-be a kind-of-map. But throw out belief, we throw out belief from day one. #1 "rule", must verify everything. Obligatory. The short answer, essence. Sincerity at its finest, brotha. Love it.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2022 11:31:41 GMT -5
Yes, there is a stability and no one denies it. This doesn't prove that there is an objective outer world over there instead it means we are creating that way. I used to tell E all the time: "You can't have your cake and eat it too". (He was the master of context flipping). Who is we? Who/What forms the stability? He was pretty adept at picking peep's pockets full of self.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 11:32:41 GMT -5
No, you are not thinking that while you are dreaming therefore it is not a delusion as far as you the dreamer are concerned. When you wake up you say I dreamt. So, you see a rope and think it’s a snake. But it’s not, under any circumstances (it never was, it never will be), a snake - even to the deluded you - you just THINK it’s a snake. All you’ve done here is push back the delusion on to the dream character (and this is where the analogy starts to fail) the dream character is deluded since there never were, under any circumstances, any pink giraffes. The DC just thinks there are. What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you?
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2022 11:35:39 GMT -5
Well, imagine how many folks have just copied and pasted that kind of nonsense straight out of wikipedia into their homework, term papers or books or whatelsenot! And the teacher might have given them an A. That's why papers are now turned in on education platforms such as Canvas and the like. With a click of the mouse, there's software that can easily identify the sources of such copy-n-pastes. 1-2 increasingly painful penalties, and some students are sent packing, sometimes with an academic record.
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Post by shadowplay on Jul 25, 2022 12:27:35 GMT -5
So, you see a rope and think it’s a snake. But it’s not, under any circumstances (it never was, it never will be), a snake - even to the deluded you - you just THINK it’s a snake. All you’ve done here is push back the delusion on to the dream character (and this is where the analogy starts to fail) the dream character is deluded since there never were, under any circumstances, any pink giraffes. The DC just thinks there are. What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you? What snake? Wake up… it’s a rope!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 12:44:35 GMT -5
So, you see a rope and think it’s a snake. But it’s not, under any circumstances (it never was, it never will be), a snake - even to the deluded you - you just THINK it’s a snake. All you’ve done here is push back the delusion on to the dream character (and this is where the analogy starts to fail) the dream character is deluded since there never were, under any circumstances, any pink giraffes. The DC just thinks there are. What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you? Um, bleed, whine, maybe die, who knows. Would you suck the venom out?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 13:05:49 GMT -5
What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you? What snake? Wake up… it’s a rope! I'm not listening to you because there never was anyone called shadowplay who ever posted anything here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 13:09:16 GMT -5
What snake? Wake up… it’s a rope! I'm not listening to you because there never was anyone called shadowplay who ever posted anything here. I suspect there will be some resistance to that How can there possibly be opposition?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 25, 2022 13:09:46 GMT -5
Yes. For Gopal, perception and creation are the same. But he has to make clear what's occurring in the consciousness of Gopal, and what occurring in Consciousness. That's why sdp considers it vital, crucial, obligatory, to make a distinction between an inside and an outside in some sense. But I basically gave up on that [zd discussion] years ago. A new thread maybe explores all this. Is the thought/belief-based structure of SDP consciousness happening in Consciousness? Then, if the structure of SDP collapsed, what would be the expression used? You know the Russian Dolls? Matryoshka dolls, nesting dolls. Consciousness is the Biggest doll. The tiniest doll, inside, inside, inside, inside, inside, inside-sd-p. sd-p is in the manifest world. First six worlds are unmanifest. sd-p is a seed, kernel and shell. Shell-p comes-from the manifest world. sd-kernel-essence comes-from the unmanifest world. sdp is inner kernel essence and outer shell. This is the Cosmology in a nutshell, and the anthropology. We had a Walnut tree in the yard when I was a kid. We had only-an-outhouse until I was five, tin roof. If you've only ever seen walnuts in the store, you don't know how they start out. When they fell off tree, the outer-outer hull was hard and green-green. Daddy would put on the outhouse roof to dry. The outer hull would turn black. Then ready to remove. But then the walnuts were still not ready to eat, still had to dry out further. If you tried to get the meat out at his point, very difficult, they are too-much-as-one. But eventually the walnut dries out enough to separate the kernel from the shell, and it still takes a hammer (that's just info, not part of analogy). So you can break the shell, get out relatively easy the kernel. The shell is the ego/personality/small s self/cultural self, the false self, the acquired self. The kernel is one's essence, one's true self. That's why the distinction, sd-p, we are in a very real sense, 2. So yes, in a sense, consciousness is happening in Consciousness, but this is why I said in the first post, complicated. You couldn't have in any sense whatsoever, the tiniest Matryoshka doll (sdp) without the Biggest doll. So sd is essence, p is the acquired self. The acquired self is added-on-stuff, thoughts, feelings/emotions, learned-bodily-actions. After about age six, this is how we mostly function. (We start out functioning, as a baby, through awareness and attention, and the body). We mostly function through thoughts, feelings/emotions and learned bodily actions. Essence becomes passive, acquired self becomes active. Essence would be the next outer doll, the next-bigger doll, a minimum. The Biggest doll contains all the others. And ultimately, the Biggest doll permeates all the dolls. This gets us to your question. The very purpose of the interior practices of the work, is to collapse the self-that-is-the-acquired-contents, that is, p, that is, the false sense of self. But the stardust remains. Now this takes us to my partial answer previously. This process is called making personality passive, making essence active. During the process essence begins to grow, again. Now, really, depending upon how fierce a warrior one is, this process can be relatively short, when the "walnut" is still green , or very long, and the kernel and shell are dried out, almost already separate anyway. Concerning the second, when the structure of the false self collapses, essence is in a very real sense 'ready to take over'. Concerning the first, I was warned very early, there is a period where one is unable to function. IOW, it can be ~very messy~. One thing to add, for a little context, we say "essence comes from the stars". That means from a higher order of What Is. (From ~a bigger doll~). Now, of course all of that or most of that is a conceptual map, for you, that is, a map, period, or just merely nonsense. But all of it is not a conceptual map for me. And yes, you could say a big part of the map is a belief. But sdp has pragmatically-existentially experienced enough so as to know not to burn the map. So it, some, is not even in an ordinary sense a belief. Some is a working theory and a way working hypothesis. I haven't fallen off the edge of the world, yet.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 25, 2022 13:10:34 GMT -5
What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you? What snake? Wake up… it’s a rope! Not always.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 13:12:08 GMT -5
What if what looks like a snake sinks it's fangs into you? Um, bleed, whine, maybe die, who knows. Would you suck the venom out? Are you insane? You want me to suck on an illusion? It's just the play of a shadow!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2022 13:18:29 GMT -5
What snake? Wake up… it’s a rope! Not always. I recently ran over a dead snake on the road that looked like a rope.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2022 13:22:18 GMT -5
Highlights of an ND Brown Bear attack!! Place your bets!! 🤣
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