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Post by siftingtothetruth on Sept 7, 2021 20:24:46 GMT -5
There's a tendency in self-inquiry to look for yourself as if you were somewhere or something else. It shows up in language like looking for "*the* I," or, worse, "the observer," "awareness, etc." Remember that you are looking for *yourself*. You are looking for you, what feels like you right now. You are trying to turn the gaze back on yourself.
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 16, 2021 11:31:36 GMT -5
There's a tendency in self-inquiry to look for yourself as if you were somewhere or something else. It shows up in language like looking for "*the* I," or, worse, "the observer," "awareness, etc." Remember that you are looking for *yourself*. You are looking for you, what feels like you right now. You are trying to turn the gaze back on yourself. My approach is what you call "surrender." In that the search for the false "I" seems futile, a fools errand. The ego/mind cannot find the Self, it can let the Self shine when it steps out of the way. I do some sensory experiments now and again. I close my eyes and try to sense my index finger (when pissed at Laffy or Andrew,--the middle finger) without moving it. Much easier if I move it or rub it against something. I know my finger then, but when I try to extract what in that sensation makes the finger mine apart from my feeling it, I come up empty. There is no sense of me that is similar to the sensation of my finger. But as you say there is denitely a me that exists that can't be sensed or known in the manner that we sense and know other objects. So why even try? I prefer to practice by moving my attention away from thought, shifting focus from "what's not happening" to "what's happening" with aplomb and gusto ignoring the farmer's head talk as much as I can. But isn't the search for the "I" and holding it a way to stifle the mind, to pause it, and in that pause recognize Reality. Aren't the two, surrender and inquiry, ultimately the same? |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Sept 17, 2021 13:25:35 GMT -5
My approach is what you call "surrender." In that the search for the false "I" seems futile, a fools errand. The ego/mind cannot find the Self, it can let the Self shine when it steps out of the way. I do some sensory experiments now and again. I close my eyes and try to sense my index finger ( when pissed at Laffy or Andrew,--the middle finger)  Well, because the me that thinks it exists is not the actual Self. And yet that false me is not wholly false. It exists in a very special imaginary way. That's why it's called illusion. It is not futility to go looking for yourself... though the door may only open when the attachments are sufficiently weakened. That said, surrender is also perfectly acceptable. That's totally fine. Surrender and inquiry are indeed ultimately the same. But note that technically in surrender, one tries to keep the mind from being absorbed in any thought... and you are continuously experiencing some kind of thought. So in surrender you are continuously trying to move away and move away and move away... in exactly the same way that in inquiry that you are trying to move toward and move toward and move toward. Surrender backs away from thought into the I; inquiry goes toward the I and in the process ignores thought. But both must be relentless processes of discernment, of discerning finer and finer and finer thought. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 20:38:59 GMT -5
My approach is what you call "surrender." In that the search for the false "I" seems futile, a fools errand. The ego/mind cannot find the Self, it can let the Self shine when it steps out of the way. I do some sensory experiments now and again. I close my eyes and try to sense my index finger ( when pissed at Laffy or Andrew,--the middle finger) Well, because the me that thinks it exists is not the actual Self. And yet that false me is not wholly false. It exists in a very special imaginary way. That's why it's called illusion. It is not futility to go looking for yourself... though the door may only open when the attachments are sufficiently weakened. That said, surrender is also perfectly acceptable. That's totally fine. Surrender and inquiry are indeed ultimately the same. But note that technically in surrender, one tries to keep the mind from being absorbed in any thought... and you are continuously experiencing some kind of thought. So in surrender you are continuously trying to move away and move away and move away... in exactly the same way that in inquiry that you are trying to move toward and move toward and move toward. Surrender backs away from thought into the I; inquiry goes toward the I and in the process ignores thought. But both must be relentless processes of discernment, of discerning finer and finer and finer thought. When mind arises surrendering the ‘attachment to thought’ permits mind to return to where it was created. (I used to experience ‘drops’ occurrences Zendancer.) For me “I” is simply identification. Love to here from you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 20:39:24 GMT -5
My approach is what you call "surrender." In that the search for the false "I" seems futile, a fools errand. The ego/mind cannot find the Self, it can let the Self shine when it steps out of the way. I do some sensory experiments now and again. I close my eyes and try to sense my index finger ( when pissed at Laffy or Andrew,--the middle finger) Well, because the me that thinks it exists is not the actual Self. And yet that false me is not wholly false. It exists in a very special imaginary way. That's why it's called illusion. It is not futility to go looking for yourself... though the door may only open when the attachments are sufficiently weakened. That said, surrender is also perfectly acceptable. That's totally fine. Surrender and inquiry are indeed ultimately the same. But note that technically in surrender, one tries to keep the mind from being absorbed in any thought... and you are continuously experiencing some kind of thought. So in surrender you are continuously trying to move away and move away and move away... in exactly the same way that in inquiry that you are trying to move toward and move toward and move toward. Surrender backs away from thought into the I; inquiry goes toward the I and in the process ignores thought. But both must be relentless processes of discernment, of discerning finer and finer and finer thought. When mind arises surrendering the ‘attachment to thought’ permits mind to return to where it was created. (I used to experience ‘drops’ occurrences Zendancer.) For me “I” is simply identification. Love to hear from you. |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Sept 18, 2021 9:24:51 GMT -5
Well, because the me that thinks it exists is not the actual Self. And yet that false me is not wholly false. It exists in a very special imaginary way. That's why it's called illusion. It is not futility to go looking for yourself... though the door may only open when the attachments are sufficiently weakened. That said, surrender is also perfectly acceptable. That's totally fine. Surrender and inquiry are indeed ultimately the same. But note that technically in surrender, one tries to keep the mind from being absorbed in any thought... and you are continuously experiencing some kind of thought. So in surrender you are continuously trying to move away and move away and move away... in exactly the same way that in inquiry that you are trying to move toward and move toward and move toward. Surrender backs away from thought into the I; inquiry goes toward the I and in the process ignores thought. But both must be relentless processes of discernment, of discerning finer and finer and finer thought. When mind arises surrendering the ‘attachment to thought’ permits mind to return to where it was created. (I used to experience ‘drops’ occurrences Zendancer.) For me “I” is simply identification. Love to hear from you. Sounds about right... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 22:35:44 GMT -5
When mind arises surrendering the ‘attachment to thought’ permits mind to return to where it was created. (I used to experience ‘drops’ occurrences Zendancer.) For me “I” is simply identification. Love to hear from you. Sounds about right... "That said, surrender is also perfectly acceptable."
surrendered this morning mind be like a trap, having gone into it harp attack.
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