|
Post by robinleeds on Jul 30, 2021 14:50:52 GMT -5
Hello All, who are planning to participate.
So August 2021 Starts on a Sunday, auspicious maybe for this fledgling venture.
We propose three phases 1-3 with Chapter One of JKsD and hopefully all the remaining chapters 2-17 to be explored monthly ONE per month over the next 17 months.
Phase 1 Sunday 01 Aug - Saturday 14 Aug read and note your own I4 Inspirations, Irritations, Impressions and Insights while reading Chapter 1. PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY of your I4's until AFTER the 14th August. Why? To avoid any priming or cross contamination of your own with any one elses. Our experience is that in many groups, book clubs who are reading chapters someone who shows up with a view gets overwhelmed by anothers point of view.
Phase 2 - Sunday 15th Aug - Saturday 21 Aug Please post your I4 Contributions and read I4 contributions from other participants, without commenting, yet. The whole idea here is to let the material and the contributions of sink in before asking questions commenting on others contributions. A period of grace and silence to ponder. If you arrive late to this exercise, experiment ... please feel free to contribute after 21st August with your own I4's or comments. But have the courtesy and good manners to read the appropriate chapter before questioning / trashing /commenting on someone elses views regarding Chapter One of JKsD.
Phase 3 - Sunday 22nd Aug - Saturday 4th Sept - Feel free to ask questions / comment /embellish participants postings made during phase 2 and beyond.
If this process does not seem quick / interactive / dynamic enough apologies. The idea behind this experiment is not to see how fast we can digest a book or read it. BUT, how we can find out whether it speaks to us and each other in a spirit of mutual listening and respect, for the material and other participants engagement with the material.
|
|
Dan G
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by Dan G on Aug 14, 2021 14:31:59 GMT -5
I might summarize as: Week 1 and 2: phase 1: read and take notes Week 3: phase 2: Post your I4s, review what others have posted but don’t respond yet Week 4: phase 3: Post responses and open discussion
|
|
Dan G
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by Dan G on Aug 16, 2021 1:10:07 GMT -5
Is the idea to post as a response to the “ChapOne JKsD Particpants Input unlocked 15th Augst 2021” thread or start a new one? I’d guess the former but checking.
|
|
|
Post by robinleeds on Aug 28, 2021 13:38:36 GMT -5
Same threads ... Clearly no one, interested or no one wants to go first
|
|
Dan G
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by Dan G on Aug 30, 2021 16:55:10 GMT -5
Yeah a lot of page views, but no one wants to go first
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Aug 31, 2021 13:19:57 GMT -5
Same threads ... Clearly no one, interested or no one wants to go first Probably no one interested. But don't let this hurt your feelings or abandon your project. If you are really looking for input on this text you want to discuss, then post something about it in the general section and see what happens. If you get a discussion going, then you can expand on that later. If not, then there's nothing you can do. What you should also keep in mind is that people here are rather free spirited and like it unscripted and spontaneous. And what you are proposing does have the ring of a college/university course with a specific reading assignment and a rather rigid schedule and ground rules. And that's fine for a college/university environment where you meet in person and can sit together and discuss in regular meetings over a longer period of time and then work your term paper. But internet forums have a very different rhythm. And people's attention span is a lot more limited with this medium, i.e. good for exchanging opinions or connecting with others, but not suited at all for deep thinking or thorough analysis, which I think is what you are looking for. So maybe rethink your approach.
|
|
|
Post by robinleeds on Sept 16, 2021 15:54:59 GMT -5
Thank You Reefs and Farmer for your comments. Yes [Farmer] I can see too ".. how it would only be of interest to a certain type of person." and [Reefs]
I will see this through as an experiment, appreciate the approach does not align with your assessment of folks here as "people here are rather free spirited and like it unscripted and spontaneous"
The hope is that after Chapters 1&2, the scene setting. Folks might might engage with the more focused chapters. If either of you Reefs and Farmer have pointers on ways of better responding to yourselves, I am still finding my ways around the controls. The other reason, idea behind the structured chapter by chapter approach was to leave the Impressions in an order that could be followed, maybe. I have tried searching for material across the whole of ST Proboards and get some unweildy search returns.
Maybe thats my lack of knowledge. Thanks for the nudges and considered replies appreciated.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 20:36:45 GMT -5
Thank You Reefs and Farmer for your comments. Yes [Farmer] I can see too ".. how it would only be of interest to a certain type of person." and [Reefs]
I will see this through as an experiment, appreciate the approach does not align with your assessment of folks here as "people here are rather free spirited and like it unscripted and spontaneous"
Tthe hope is that after Chapters 1&2, the scene setting folks might might engage with the more focused chapters. If either of you Reefs and Farmer have pointers on ways of better responding to yourselves I am still finding my ways around the controls. The other reason, idea behind the structured chapter by chapter approach was to leave the Impressions in an order that could be followed, maybe. I have tried searching for material across the whole of ST Proboards and get some unweildy search returns.
Maybe thats my lack of knowledge. Thanks for the nudges and considered replies appreciated. Ty for sharing Will watch other two, Vulnerability superb.
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2021 4:29:05 GMT -5
Thank You Reefs and Farmer for your comments. Yes [Farmer] I can see too ".. how it would only be of interest to a certain type of person." and [Reefs]
I will see this through as an experiment, appreciate the approach does not align with your assessment of folks here as "people here are rather free spirited and like it unscripted and spontaneous" The hope is that after Chapters 1&2, the scene setting. Folks might might engage with the more focused chapters. If either of you Reefs and Farmer have pointers on ways of better responding to yourselves, I am still finding my ways around the controls. The other reason, idea behind the structured chapter by chapter approach was to leave the Impressions in an order that could be followed, maybe. I have tried searching for material across the whole of ST Proboards and get some unweildy search returns.
Maybe thats my lack of knowledge. Thanks for the nudges and considered replies appreciated. Hi Robin, I think you should post a teaser so that people know what they are getting themselves into. I've discussed books here before. Going thru them chapter by chapter. However, there were no requirements for participation. I mostly just did it for my own amusement. Take a look: McKenna: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5319/jed-mckennaTolle: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5327/eckhart-tolleETA: I just read your abstract again in the other thread and this here actually sounds interesting: A methodology is offered for the transmutation of energy in the process of “becoming the Truth.” The goal of the work is to arrive at the absolute state-of-being, which is said to forever answer all questions and resolve all desires. This study presents Rose’s teaching in an organized, systematic manner, explaining the meanings of and interrelationships among the principles involved, and ties in relevant material from similar spiritual doctrines, such as Advaita Vedanta, Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way, Vipassana Buddhism, Kundalini, Jnana, and Raja Yogas, and Zen. Rose’s transpersonal “map,” called Jacob’s Ladder, is the central framework of his introspective system and is described in detail, including both its therapeutic and mystical aspects in refining the definition of Self as the final observer. Now, I don't know who Rose is or what he teaches, but from what I have heard, some people considered him some kind of Zen master. But from my perspective, resolving all desires is an impossible and also unnecessary task, because this is something only a separate volitional person would attempt to do. And the hallmark of Self-Realization is seeing thru the illusion of such an apparent separate volitional entity that is seemingly doing all kinds of things. So here I am already wondering how much Zen there is in Rose. And the term Jacob's Ladder I've heard in yoga a lot, it usually refers to the 7 chakras in the body (and corresponding stages of consciousness). So it looks like we already have something to discuss here! (there, I've already wrote a teaser for you)
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2021 7:10:24 GMT -5
Thank You Reefs and Farmer for your comments. Yes [Farmer] I can see too ".. how it would only be of interest to a certain type of person." and [Reefs]
I will see this through as an experiment, appreciate the approach does not align with your assessment of folks here as "people here are rather free spirited and like it unscripted and spontaneous" The hope is that after Chapters 1&2, the scene setting. Folks might might engage with the more focused chapters. If either of you Reefs and Farmer have pointers on ways of better responding to yourselves, I am still finding my ways around the controls. The other reason, idea behind the structured chapter by chapter approach was to leave the Impressions in an order that could be followed, maybe. I have tried searching for material across the whole of ST Proboards and get some unweildy search returns.
Maybe thats my lack of knowledge. Thanks for the nudges and considered replies appreciated. Hi Robin, I think you should post a teaser so that people know what they are getting themselves into. I've discussed books here before. Going thru them chapter by chapter. However, there were no requirements for participation. I mostly just did it for my own amusement. Take a look: McKenna: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5319/jed-mckennaTolle: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5327/eckhart-tolleETA: I just read your abstract again in the other thread and this here actually sounds interesting: A methodology is offered for the transmutation of energy in the process of “becoming the Truth.” The goal of the work is to arrive at the absolute state-of-being, which is said to forever answer all questions and resolve all desires. This study presents Rose’s teaching in an organized, systematic manner, explaining the meanings of and interrelationships among the principles involved, and ties in relevant material from similar spiritual doctrines, such as Advaita Vedanta, Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way, Vipassana Buddhism, Kundalini, Jnana, and Raja Yogas, and Zen. Rose’s transpersonal “map,” called Jacob’s Ladder, is the central framework of his introspective system and is described in detail, including both its therapeutic and mystical aspects in refining the definition of Self as the final observer. Now, I don't know who Rose is or what he teaches, but from what I have heard, some people considered him some kind of Zen master. But from my perspective, resolving all desires is an impossible and also unnecessary task, because this is something only a separate volitional person would attempt to do. And the hallmark of Self-Realization is seeing thru the illusion of such an apparent separate volitional entity that is seemingly doing all kinds of things. So here I am already wondering how much Zen there is in Rose. And the term Jacob's Ladder I've heard in yoga a lot, it usually refers to the 7 chakras in the body (and corresponding stages of consciousness). So it looks like we already have something to discuss here! (there, I've already wrote a teaser for you) Were you aware of the relation of the TAT Foundation to Rose and of Shawn Nevins relation to each? Personally, I've found that influence to be rather foundational to the forum content, overall.
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2021 7:42:41 GMT -5
Hi Robin, I think you should post a teaser so that people know what they are getting themselves into. I've discussed books here before. Going thru them chapter by chapter. However, there were no requirements for participation. I mostly just did it for my own amusement. Take a look: McKenna: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5319/jed-mckennaTolle: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5327/eckhart-tolleETA: I just read your abstract again in the other thread and this here actually sounds interesting: Now, I don't know who Rose is or what he teaches, but from what I have heard, some people considered him some kind of Zen master. But from my perspective, resolving all desires is an impossible and also unnecessary task, because this is something only a separate volitional person would attempt to do. And the hallmark of Self-Realization is seeing thru the illusion of such an apparent separate volitional entity that is seemingly doing all kinds of things. So here I am already wondering how much Zen there is in Rose. And the term Jacob's Ladder I've heard in yoga a lot, it usually refers to the 7 chakras in the body (and corresponding stages of consciousness). So it looks like we already have something to discuss here! (there, I've already wrote a teaser for you) Were you aware of the relation of the TAT Foundation to Rose and of Shawn Nevins relation to each? Personally, I've found that influence to be rather foundational to the forum content, overall. Yes, I am aware of this. Shawn gave him a 5 star rating, I just checked with the main site. So I think it's probably worth taking a look at Rose's work. I usually tend to roughly agree with Shawn's ratings. And based on Robin's abstract, what piqued my interest was the yoga and Zen/Advaita connection.
|
|
|
Post by robinleeds on Nov 29, 2021 18:09:17 GMT -5
I read a good chunk of Dr. Kent's book.. many years ago.. and though I can't remember any passages from it.. I do remember thinking at the time how detailed and well explained it was. I even remember recommending it.. but I can see how it would only be of interest to a certain type of person. Hi Farmer
I feel the same, I John Kent put his heart, head, gut and soul into this piece of work. John Kents Dissertation JKsD. Rose left a mark on him, Kent asked Rose how he could repay him, and Rose's response to John K. was pass it on!
Well Kent certainly did that.
As a resource and a way into the Albigen System, and the Perennial Wisdom it has few equals to me personally and the site
Roses terms "betweenness"
use the following string START{ betweenness "betweenness" site:https://www.searchwithin.org/johnkent/ }END
Farmer sorry for the delay in responding. But appreciate the interrest and feedback. Part of the overall aim is to learn to use Proboards and to Promote JKsD and Rose's Teachings more widely in a receptive environment.
This whole effort here is to engage with the material, gain a personal, intimate understanding of the work and in the process contribute some ladderwork and personal benefit. If I can steal some of Kents words "In part, I intended to make [..] a form of ladderwork. [..] I need to totally immerse myself in Rose's teaching, work through every single aspect of it to the best of my understanding, [..], for my own benefit as much as for anyone else's."
Robin
|
|
|
Post by robinleeds on Nov 29, 2021 19:14:54 GMT -5
Hi Robin, I think you should post a teaser so that people know what they are getting themselves into. I've discussed books here before. Going thru them chapter by chapter. However, there were no requirements for participation. I mostly just did it for my own amusement. Take a look: McKenna: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5319/jed-mckennaTolle: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5327/eckhart-tolleETA: I just read your abstract again in the other thread and this here actually sounds interesting: Now, I don't know who Rose is or what he teaches, but from what I have heard, some people considered him some kind of Zen master. But from my perspective, resolving all desires is an impossible and also unnecessary task, because this is something only a separate volitional person would attempt to do. And the hallmark of Self-Realization is seeing thru the illusion of such an apparent separate volitional entity that is seemingly doing all kinds of things. So here I am already wondering how much Zen there is in Rose. And the term Jacob's Ladder I've heard in yoga a lot, it usually refers to the 7 chakras in the body (and corresponding stages of consciousness). So it looks like we already have something to discuss here! (there, I've already wrote a teaser for you) Were you aware of the relation of the TAT Foundation to Rose and of Shawn Nevins relation to each? Personally, I've found that influence to be rather foundational to the forum content, overall. Hi Reefs
I know Shawn and met with him he was kind enough to show me and my wife around SF 2018. When we were on a trip from UK to SF and Hawaii. TAT has been in my life now since 2013/14, ironically I was looking for stuff on Ramana Maharishi and Nisagatta and JKsD showed up I have read it through a few times but last year I read Roses Pyschology of the Observer and realised I needed to dive deeper JKsD seemed a logical place to navigate the Albigen System.
BTW There is a diagram that shows Roses view of the Map to Self Realisation Jacobs ladder is it relates to chakra I cannot see it yet, but I am still learning and whileit is easy to write and say "the map is not the territory" getting off the map (out of ones head) and into the territory can be resisted.
Jacobs Ladder diagram:
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 30, 2021 8:26:02 GMT -5
Were you aware of the relation of the TAT Foundation to Rose and of Shawn Nevins relation to each? Personally, I've found that influence to be rather foundational to the forum content, overall. Hi Reefs I know Shawn and met with him he was kind enough to show me and my wife around SF 2018. When we were on a trip from UK to SF and Hawaii. TAT has been in my life now since 2013/14, ironically I was looking for stuff on Ramana Maharishi and Nisagatta and JKsD showed up I have read it through a few times but last year I read Roses Pyschology of the Observer and realised I needed to dive deeper JKsD seemed a logical place to navigate the Albigen System. BTW There is a diagram that shows Roses view of the Map to Self Realisation Jacobs ladder is it relates to chakra I cannot see it yet, but I am still learning and whileit is easy to write and say "the map is not the territory" getting off the map (out of ones head) and into the territory can be resisted. Jacobs Ladder diagram:
There are different chakra theories. One theory is that the chakras correspond to the glands, the endocrine system. Another theory is that the chakras are energy centers in the body, in the TCM or Qigong, Taiji sense. And yet another theory is that the chakras represent different stage of individual consciousness. There is even a theory that the chakras are a representations of cosmic or planetary energies, the 7 classical planets in particular. These theories, of course, are all related somehow, depending on how you want to look at it. And judging from the link you posted, I am assuming Rose saw it in terms of levels of consciousness? Such maps are interesting and I think they usually tell you a lot more about the mapper than the territory they are attempting to map. On another forum, there was a group of people who were very much into reaching higher stages of consciousness. They always thought in terms of levels of consciousness and even referred to a numbering system, some kind of scale where they would calibrate themselves and others in order to gauge their progress (or superiority, hehe). To me, it was a fun idea to play around with, but nothing in terms of ultimate truth. The only distinction we usually make here is between the personal/relative and the impersonal/absolute perspective. The absolute can't be graded, of course. And the relative can be graded as much or as little as you like. So there's no ultimate truth found in these maps. I've read the first chapter of the dissertation and actually took some notes. Unfortunately, I somehow lost those notes. But I do resonate with some of Rose's personal path, especially that he had to figure that out at all cost or nothing else in life would have any meaning or purpose. ETA: I remember now, it was the David Hawkins scale. And when I look at it now, it does look like the A-H emotional scale, hehe. Who knew?!
|
|
|
Post by robinleeds on Dec 3, 2021 7:17:16 GMT -5
First encountered Chakras at 19 while browsing in an academic bookshop to get my Undergraduate Chemistry Textbooks. I left the bookshop with my course text but also an additional book Yoga by Ernest Wood. I did not understand any of the mystical elements or its connection to the the spiritual dimension or perrenial wisdom. I engaged with it at the Physical and mental levels almost exclusively and asachallenged tomy Christian Indoctrination (albeit willingly it seemed). The emotional, spiritual and etheric levels escaped me at least consciously. Reefs Your "I've found that influence to be rather foundational to the forum content, overall. ... referring to the TAT foundation" is a can of worms you might not want to open I love word play and pun-ish-meants! Ernest Wood bio: www.meherbabatravels.com/personalities/prof-ernest-wood/
|
|