Newbie

[jeff]

Hi all

I just found this board and I'm so hoping to talk to other people who have experienced this. My wife suggested I try to find a group like this and really I didn't believe there would be one. I'm from near Raleigh NC. Grew up raised in Baptist and Methodist churches. Never any experience with other religions or faiths.

Back in 2005 I had a severe trauma. I changed completely and it was extremely scary at the time. Everyday life was a dissociative mess. Lost interest in everything and even my identity (ego). Once acclimated with this experience there was just peace. No concern with "oh no! who am I? what is my purpose" and so on. The day I finally acknowledged these questions and tried to take them seriously was the best day I've ever had. I never laughed so hard. Jeff

[zendancer]

Hi Jeff,

Glad to have you join us. We have people on this board from all over the world, most of whom have had a wide range of interesting experiences. So, what is your everyday situation now? Your wife apparently understands what happened to you, but how about other people in your community?

[skyblue]

Welcome Jeff. I look forward to reading about your experiences.

Sky

[jeff]

Thank you Zendancer and Skyblue. In another life I'd speak of my experiences with some amount of shame, guilt, pity and all other manner of useless self-defeating reactions. I grow up in a family that alternates between peaceful and hostile, felt inadequate all my life until I found drugs at 19 years old, became someone who I thought was 'me', quit drugs and started putting my life together, did fairly well career wise, educationally, personally, spiritually (so I thought), and got married to a wonderful person, and thought I had "arrived."

At 29 I was working about 60 hours a week, going to school full time, teaching music part time at a local Baptist Church, volunteering teaching at my home church. This was not a problem at the time, even though I felt burnt out I was doing something with my life! I also experimented with certain legal entheogens to "enhance" my life. Then after several bouts of pain and injuries I found out I had arthritis. I frequently began taking pain medicine, frequently abusing it. I was hit hard one day with pain and it lasted for over a week. I struggled doing all of my daily activities, it was almost an impossible thing to get out of bed in the mornings. I became depressed. Doctor put me on a steroid to get the swelling under control.

After only a few days on the steroid, my heart was pounding hard. I took a dose one day and I had a massive panic attack and believed I would die. I was at work, and I was trying to walk to a coworkers office to tell him to dial 911. His office was far away enough that I knew I wouldn't make it, and I made up my mind right there that I would die. I sat down, and within about 5 minutes my heart rate came back up.

It was weeks later that I finally realized I couldn't shake the fear of this experience. It haunted me every day and I was becoming more and more detatched and fearful. My wife finally took me to see a psychiatrist who said I had severe anxiety (panic disorder) and depression. I had given up by this point. I was put on medicine to control the panic attacks and lift my mood. It didn't help. It just knocked me out and made me tired a lot.

I did not cooperate with the drs. or the medicine routine, frustrating my wife and family, and making me more detatched. I seemed to have lost most of my sense of who I was. For nearly 4 years, I struggled alone with the existential anxiety and feeling of issolation. I was sure my mind and body was ruined and doomed to be in pain forever.

I should mention, that 4 years ago I started meditating to acheive some peace in my life. At first, it bored me. Later I felt it grounded me somewhat better, and even later I found it filled me with dread and anxiety. When I finally started to deal with feelings I had always tried to avoid, meditation was something I approached with trepidation. So instead I would just stare at something (anything really) and concentrate on it until my mind would still somewhat. I always came away from doing that feeling very dissociated and detatched, but only to find that in about 15 minutes I would see things more clearly. It was so much more difficult to do than therapy, but therapy was too expensive I felt.

About 6 months ago, I was at work feeling sorry for myself for being in the same job after so many years, and never advancing or accomplishing what I set out to do in my career. I was worried about my marriage, and the possibility that my wife had finally had enough of me. My troubles were compounding daily. And I had a realization that has only continued to grow inside of me since that time. I cannot put it into words very well, but I have to say I just about fell out laughing. It struck me that life experiences are like a big cosmic joke that we play on ourselves to keep the drama alive. I went around the rest of the week noticing how alone and miserable people seemed compared to my mood. I wanted to help them understand what I knew. Once the 'awakening' experience wore off I was a little down, but not depressed. I just felt a lot of compassion for people including myself for ever thinking that suffering could be alleviated with striving for better or more (________). The only way to get rid of it suffering is to let it go completely. And not just saying let it go, but really really letting it go even if that means sitting around for a whole week alone trying to understand how you can do that. It eventually came to me. When I see people ecstatic over something I just KNOW eventually there will be a crash to that. It's true in life as it is with anything else, drugs, relationships, success, or whatever. Whatever gives you pleasure or causes you to aim toward a goal will come at a price that you will experience as loss. The only spiritual teachers I know much of anything about other than Jesus and Buddha is from a book my wife recommended by Eckhart Tolle. I'm on fire to learn more now though! I will look into some of these people.

I really enjoyed reading the Tolle book. The book is "Power of Now" and the only thing I find a bit off in it is the explanation of the feeling when getting past the delusion. I also feel like he sort of villifies the ego (which I think the ego does serve its purpose and humans come about having the ego quite honestly). I noticed trying to get rid of the ego sort of made me too conscious of it (like telling someone "don't think about a big pink elephant, especially an elephant that's REALLY BIG and REALLY PINK").

So I've gone on for a while, sorry so long. I think I don't talk much and when I do end up sharing things it's hard to shut up...lol. Where can I find out more about you guys?

Peace and thank you so much

jeff

[karen]

Jan 17, 2010 9:47:58 GMT -5 jeff said:

[snip]I should mention, that 4 years ago I started meditating to acheive some peace in my life. At first, it bored me. Later I felt it grounded me somewhat better, and even later I found it filled me with dread and anxiety. When I finally started to deal with feelings I had always tried to avoid, meditation was something I approached with trepidation. So instead I would just stare at something (anything really) and concentrate on it until my mind would still somewhat. I always came away from doing that feeling very dissociated and detatched, but only to find that in about 15 minutes I would see things more clearly. It was so much more difficult to do than therapy, but therapy was too expensive I felt.

Hi Jeff. Welcome!

I've recently been using a technique just like you mentioned with great success. I grab any random object with my eye and focus on that as much as possible and then move onto another object as I move.

And I've been doing this whenever I remember it now always. I don't schedule formal meditation (that would make it a chore which I'd never do).

Yesterday was a banner day as far as it goes. It seems like I period of attention and inadvertence was inverted. Whilst normally I'd be day dreaming and waiting (what's next?) most the time it seems broken up by my seemingly puny and pathetic attempts at keeping present. But yesterday, it felt as though I might have had about an hour of inadvertence in total with attention to practice the rest of the time.

I wonder if that will continue, or if it's just a flash in the pan.

BTW, your fortunate to have found this site with so many earnest seekers.

[jeff]

Thank you Karen. My immediate thought when I read your post is that it's all just flash in the pan, but we just get used to the flash and when it isn't what we expect we go into scientist mode and try to figure out what "made the experience." Of course all thoughts being subject to revision I'm sure what I've said hear means very little...but for what it's worth, I know what you're talking about. I am indeed fortunate to be able to play here. What a wonderful tool the internet can be!

Jeff

[skyblue]

I noticed trying to get rid of the ego sort of made me too conscious of it (like telling someone "don't think about a big pink elephant, especially an elephant that's REALLY BIG and REALLY PINK").

That happened to me as well. It was as if once I made the decision to try and get rid of the ego, it hung on for dear life.

Have you read A New Earth by Tolle?

[karen]

Jeff, that's an important insight I agree. Yes the mind appears to make everything banal.

I'm with you guys about the ego too. Early on, I vilified it, and wished it gone. Now I just use the blanket term of conditioning. And by conditioning, I am referring to believing thoughts to be true. No longer is it the enemy.

[jeff]

Hey Sky! No I haven't read New Earth but I have read The Power of Now. New Earth I've had several occasions where I skimmed through it or found a quick chapter to read at the bookstore but that's it. Right now I'm just reading the Tao Te Ching. How is New Earth compared to Power of Now?

Thanks,

Jeff

[skyblue]

Jan 19, 2010 18:26:22 GMT -5 jeff said:

Hey Sky! No I haven't read New Earth but I have read The Power of Now. New Earth I've had several occasions where I skimmed through it or found a quick chapter to read at the bookstore but that's it. Right now I'm just reading the Tao Te Ching. How is New Earth compared to Power of Now?

Thanks,

Jeff

Here you go Jeff. This says it better than I could.

www.namastepublishing.com/now_reviews.asp

[lightmystic]

Hey Jeff. Wonderful to have you on the forum! I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

I might ask, if you don't mind, what is your experience now?

I agree with you about Eckhart villifying the ego, but then it brings up the question of how to make people realize that it's a night and day, visceral shift? It's definitely tricky to talk about. In terms of finding other good reading and teachers. You might really enjoy Adyashanti (especially his newest book: the end of your world). I find that he shares very very clearly. You also might look into David Carse's book Perfect Brilliant Stillness. He has some of the clearest expositions on nonduality that I've seen (a little bit in the style of Nisagartada Maharaj, but I find him to be clearer). You can also check out Byron Katie, who has developed a technique for rooting out the misunderstandings that you so eloquently described in your post. I like 1,000 Names For Joy best of what she wrote....

Anyway, I would quite enjoy hearing your current experience, and I'll look forward to talking with you more....

Jan 17, 2010 9:47:58 GMT -5 jeff said:

Thank you Zendancer and Skyblue. In another life I'd speak of my experiences with some amount of shame, guilt, pity and all other manner of useless self-defeating reactions. I grow up in a family that alternates between peaceful and hostile, felt inadequate all my life until I found drugs at 19 years old, became someone who I thought was 'me', quit drugs and started putting my life together, did fairly well career wise, educationally, personally, spiritually (so I thought), and got married to a wonderful person, and thought I had "arrived."

At 29 I was working about 60 hours a week, going to school full time, teaching music part time at a local Baptist Church, volunteering teaching at my home church. This was not a problem at the time, even though I felt burnt out I was doing something with my life! I also experimented with certain legal entheogens to "enhance" my life. Then after several bouts of pain and injuries I found out I had arthritis. I frequently began taking pain medicine, frequently abusing it. I was hit hard one day with pain and it lasted for over a week. I struggled doing all of my daily activities, it was almost an impossible thing to get out of bed in the mornings. I became depressed. Doctor put me on a steroid to get the swelling under control.

After only a few days on the steroid, my heart was pounding hard. I took a dose one day and I had a massive panic attack and believed I would die. I was at work, and I was trying to walk to a coworkers office to tell him to dial 911. His office was far away enough that I knew I wouldn't make it, and I made up my mind right there that I would die. I sat down, and within about 5 minutes my heart rate came back up.

It was weeks later that I finally realized I couldn't shake the fear of this experience. It haunted me every day and I was becoming more and more detatched and fearful. My wife finally took me to see a psychiatrist who said I had severe anxiety (panic disorder) and depression. I had given up by this point. I was put on medicine to control the panic attacks and lift my mood. It didn't help. It just knocked me out and made me tired a lot.

I did not cooperate with the drs. or the medicine routine, frustrating my wife and family, and making me more detatched. I seemed to have lost most of my sense of who I was. For nearly 4 years, I struggled alone with the existential anxiety and feeling of issolation. I was sure my mind and body was ruined and doomed to be in pain forever.

I should mention, that 4 years ago I started meditating to acheive some peace in my life. At first, it bored me. Later I felt it grounded me somewhat better, and even later I found it filled me with dread and anxiety. When I finally started to deal with feelings I had always tried to avoid, meditation was something I approached with trepidation. So instead I would just stare at something (anything really) and concentrate on it until my mind would still somewhat. I always came away from doing that feeling very dissociated and detatched, but only to find that in about 15 minutes I would see things more clearly. It was so much more difficult to do than therapy, but therapy was too expensive I felt.

About 6 months ago, I was at work feeling sorry for myself for being in the same job after so many years, and never advancing or accomplishing what I set out to do in my career. I was worried about my marriage, and the possibility that my wife had finally had enough of me. My troubles were compounding daily. And I had a realization that has only continued to grow inside of me since that time. I cannot put it into words very well, but I have to say I just about fell out laughing. It struck me that life experiences are like a big cosmic joke that we play on ourselves to keep the drama alive. I went around the rest of the week noticing how alone and miserable people seemed compared to my mood. I wanted to help them understand what I knew. Once the 'awakening' experience wore off I was a little down, but not depressed. I just felt a lot of compassion for people including myself for ever thinking that suffering could be alleviated with striving for better or more (________). The only way to get rid of it suffering is to let it go completely. And not just saying let it go, but really really letting it go even if that means sitting around for a whole week alone trying to understand how you can do that. It eventually came to me. When I see people ecstatic over something I just KNOW eventually there will be a crash to that. It's true in life as it is with anything else, drugs, relationships, success, or whatever. Whatever gives you pleasure or causes you to aim toward a goal will come at a price that you will experience as loss. The only spiritual teachers I know much of anything about other than Jesus and Buddha is from a book my wife recommended by Eckhart Tolle. I'm on fire to learn more now though! I will look into some of these people.

I really enjoyed reading the Tolle book. The book is "Power of Now" and the only thing I find a bit off in it is the explanation of the feeling when getting past the delusion. I also feel like he sort of villifies the ego (which I think the ego does serve its purpose and humans come about having the ego quite honestly). I noticed trying to get rid of the ego sort of made me too conscious of it (like telling someone "don't think about a big pink elephant, especially an elephant that's REALLY BIG and REALLY PINK").

So I've gone on for a while, sorry so long. I think I don't talk much and when I do end up sharing things it's hard to shut up...lol. Where can I find out more about you guys?

Peace and thank you so much

jeff

[jeff]

Hi Lightmystic,

Nice to meet you. I would say my current experience is that I am quite at peace, but I still suffer and my ego still hangs on. Through my experience with meditation, self-inquiry and reading/study I have had a number of experiences that range from simple to extraordinary (I like that word...extra-ordinary).

I am not "awake" in the non-dual sense that is used. I'm not in that state 24/7, but I do have glimpses of profound and yet quite simple childlike recurrences. Considering my history over the last 4 years though it would have to be discribed by those who know me well as nothing short of a kind of spiritual awakening and a miracle.

The thing that brought me to this, I believed at first was something I did. Now I know that isn't the case. I haven't had the "no-self" experience, but I have had quick moments where I just kind of looked around and said "this isn't right" or "this is all predetermined." I'm still not sure about that last one and I'm seeking the mystery on that as it would negate free will if it were true. I believe there is some element of free will, but when you throw a pebble in the water, there is a ripple effect that will cause a chain of events that cannot be altered unless some other force or energy in the universe has also been set into motion as well. And even in that case, the universe has a prescribed outcome that will never be wrong. It would be out of character for anything to happen any other way than it does.

Anyways, I'm still on the path. I like you're point on Tolle, and you're right. The truth that anyone can explain isn't the truth, but he does create a strong case with his words and concepts that errs on the side of bringing you in the right direction. I will remember your recommendations and when there is a opportunity I will have them on my list of books to buy/purchase/borrow or checkout. Right now I am looking at a book that a friend wrote, and I'm also slowly reading Jed McKenna, Lao-Tzu and Nasargadatti. I got to meet and listen to Bart Campbell Wednesday night and he is a wonderful speaker and obviously teaches and speaks from a place of stillness. I was humbled to meet him and I believe I'll get his book also at some point.

I look forward to continuing to speak with you. As for you, what's your story or is there somewhere I can go to read about it in the interest of saving your time. : )

jeff

[jeff]

Oh, I have also heard Adya speak as well and I really find him to be authentic. Haven't read any of his books yet though, but that's a matter of time and resources.

[lightmystic]

Hey Jeff,

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you are in a very good place, even if Awakening is still yet to come....

If I might ask, do you have any experience of that which does not change...that which underlies everything....that which is Absolute? What is your experience of that, if any? (considering what you've described, I expect that you are very familiar with that aspect of experience that I am talking about, but please forgive me if I am incorrect).

In terms of my story. I think it's in the archives somewhere in one form or another, but I expect it might be hard to find, and I don't think I've ever posted the whole thing (even a cursory version) in on place, so I'll go into it here, as you were kind enough to do that for me.

My seeking probably started in college, when the pain of existence become so great that I was looking for a way out. I had heard about various spiritual ideas, but decided, at that time, that it was worth really getting to the bottom of it and figuring out a.) what Enlightenment really was, b.) whether Enlightenment was real, and c.) whether it was really achievable. I didn't know anyone personally who had "made it", but started reading as many books that resonated as I could to try to find the common theme between all of them. And, while I could not conceptualize it properly (not realizing, at the time, that it simply could not be limited to any concept, because it was infinite), I started to piece together a common feeling, a common knowing. During this time, I started noticing that my intense emotions, my intense unconscious responses, could start to be made conscious through allowing, and that the resistance, as it started to fade, started to resolve those issues. So I confirmed for myself, at that time, that Enlightenment was probably real, but had no way forward except the consistent attention to myself. And that worked pretty well, but there was a lot of pain involved at that time, as all of this intensity was starting to unwind....

Later on, I had an experience of realizing that the world was just an endless cycle of having a desire, fulfilling it, having a desire, fulfilling it, etc. and would never bring any lasting fulfillment. From that overwhelming feeling of meaninglessness came this firm resolves that I was going to do whatever it took to find Enlightenment, period. Throughout that time, I found a few other serious seekers, brothers in arms, to forge ahead what was new territory for us. At that time, there were a lot of nice spiritual experiences, but nothing stayed.... I would think that I "had it" and then it would go. It was frustrating, but also encouraging, because it suggested that progress was being made. I continued to read anything I could find that had the ring of truth, and discuss it non-stop....
At that time, I also realized that my cycle of "making progress" and then "sliding back" into old habits wasn't a constant getting it and losing it like I had thought, but actually WAS the process ITSELF! It was like there was a recognition of something more, and then there was the going back and revisiting every reason why I wasn't already there all the time....and so the feeling like I was sliding back wasn't a sliding back in itself, but an important part of the process of moving forward. That brought a great deal of relief and patience with the process that had not been there before, and certainly relieved a lot of frustration.

Later on still, it felt like the experience and process itself continued to get clearer. During a talk with a friend, everything burst into Light and Perfection. And it was clear that nothing could ever be wrong again. I was sure that I had "made it", and that the rest of life was going to be living in total bliss.

3 days later it left.....

And suddenly, every boundary that I had felt infinitely confining in comparison to what was there before...there was a zeal like I had never had before to regain what it felt like I had lost....I did not want to return to life (work, law school, etc.) but I gave it a try anyway. I found, during that time, that I was spending less and less time being engaged in life and more and more time to myself, until it was clear that I needed a break from everything, but I was apparently going to take it one way or the other. So I arranged a sabbatical of sorts, put everything on hold, and just locked myself in my apartment, acting as my cave for about 3 months....I talked to people once in a while to ensure that I stayed sane, left the place to take walks on my own, but received no visitors. I found an Enlightened master who was willing to work with me without being expensive (as I was not working at that time, or really doing anything at all), and we talked over the phone once a week. And that helped a lot. At time it also felt like there was a very nice spiritual experience, a very expanded Absolute Nothingness that I was deeply enjoying to the very small extent I felt connected to it. But it felt so disconnected from me most of the time that it was almost like there was this amazing spiritual experience around me all the time that I wasn't getting to have in any way....

After 3 months of not doing anything, I spent the next three months talking with fellow seekers, and started sharing the work that I had been doing to move myself through resistances. During that time I actually started a small business of doing healing work for people in exchange for a little bit of money....basically I was teaching them the process that was working for me. I ended up having about 5 clients a week or so and spent the rest of the time focused on my own internal process, taking walks, and talking with others to get to the bottom of this. I also discovered a meeting, where a group of Awake people would come to talk about their experiences and help others find that within them. The energy of the room was extraordinary, and unlike anything I had ever seen before or have seen since...The collective power of the room was palpable. There they showed me that it wasn't this amazing spiritual experience wasn't happening to me, but rather that I WAS That which was what the experience WAS. And, after about two weeks of working on that, the whole thing lit up inside, and the dark Emptiness become bright. The next day the shift was so subtle that I wasn't sure it had even happened, and was, perhaps just another experience that had come and gone. Two weeks later, however, the experience was very clear, and I was able to trace the start of that back to the days before. At that point, there was a core of knowing who and what I was, and so, no matter how bad things got, there was always at least 1% of me that simply could no longer suffer. Still, that experience of identifying with That now felt very disconnected from the world in a certain way, and in a way that I didn't want. I knew that there was more (after all, 1% never suffering is not that great at the times when 99% of you IS). So I sought the relationship between Me, Being, and "everything else." I was not having experiences of nonduality, but I was looking for them. I had done the reading, knew what to expect, realized that it was a process of always opening more and more (something less continually out of the way, never something additional) and it was just a matter of converting that into direct experience....

There was a lot of painful unwinding at that time, but there came a point where the connectedness to things started to appear in a clear way, but inconsistently. It got to the point where I was frustrated and just insisted on having that all the time. After about three days of insisting on that to life, my mind turned upside down, while talking to a friend, and I was the golden sun of Being and all of my rays were everything in Creation, including my individual self. This state had a lot of light, felt very unified with everything, and knew everything to be the same being that I was. there was a very close relationship with God, and it felt increasingly like there was the individual me, but then God and I shared the same body on a Cosmic level, while still remaining our own people. Just not separate in any way.... and I could see the luminescence that underlied everything was the same luminescence that made up who I was. And there was a connection there and a relationship there. It was basically like everything I had expected Enlightenment to be, it just looked different on the surface than I had expected. It wasn't what I had concieved of non-duality to be all suffering when down so that 50% of me couldn't suffer no matter what. And that was much better than before. Still, I was honest enough with myself to recognize that, even though it was very flashy and felt like Enlightenment was "supposed to" feel like, suffering was not entirely eradicated, and so I knew it couldn't be the final thing. And this was thankfully confirmed by those at the group that HAD made it all the way....

Progress had come relatively quickly at that point, and so I figured I'd give it a year or so and see how I was doing then. I realized, (intuitively I guess) that I could not take the final step no matter how much I wanted it, and so I would let life take care of me. After all, I had gotten much farther than I could have expected in a short time anyway....

After about 8 months or so of that experience (during which time I had returned to work and such), I discovered, one day, that I was, as if, riding my thoughts like a horse. "That's interesting" I said to myself....and I got off the horse-thought. The horse-thought continued trotting along without me. And then when I looked away from the horse thought back to myself, I noticed that I was not there. It was very simple, very natural, but very much a huge release. Everything was completely different. For the first time, fundamentally, everything was as good as everything else....suffering was 99-100% impossible....who could suffer in the face of truly knowing who they were? And that there was no separate individual?
From there, nothing was lacking, and it took me a while to understand what exactly had happened, and a.) how the world could be 100% relative and 100% Absolute at every point while remaining 100% connected to each other (i.e. while being the same thing), and b.) also how desires could still arise in the face of total fulfillment. I experienced that they did, but it didn't make any sense to me....
The world was like an aftershock of being blinded by a camera lens. It was there, but so insignificant in the face of Reality.

Since then, because nothing was lacking, the growth could really start. And the fulfillment and enjoyment/appreciation of everything with it.....

So that's my story....

Jan 23, 2010 13:53:50 GMT -5 jeff said:

Hi Lightmystic,

Nice to meet you. I would say my current experience is that I am quite at peace, but I still suffer and my ego still hangs on. Through my experience with meditation, self-inquiry and reading/study I have had a number of experiences that range from simple to extraordinary (I like that word...extra-ordinary).

I am not "awake" in the non-dual sense that is used. I'm not in that state 24/7, but I do have glimpses of profound and yet quite simple childlike recurrences. Considering my history over the last 4 years though it would have to be discribed by those who know me well as nothing short of a kind of spiritual awakening and a miracle.

The thing that brought me to this, I believed at first was something I did. Now I know that isn't the case. I haven't had the "no-self" experience, but I have had quick moments where I just kind of looked around and said "this isn't right" or "this is all predetermined." I'm still not sure about that last one and I'm seeking the mystery on that as it would negate free will if it were true. I believe there is some element of free will, but when you throw a pebble in the water, there is a ripple effect that will cause a chain of events that cannot be altered unless some other force or energy in the universe has also been set into motion as well. And even in that case, the universe has a prescribed outcome that will never be wrong. It would be out of character for anything to happen any other way than it does.

Anyways, I'm still on the path. I like you're point on Tolle, and you're right. The truth that anyone can explain isn't the truth, but he does create a strong case with his words and concepts that errs on the side of bringing you in the right direction. I will remember your recommendations and when there is a opportunity I will have them on my list of books to buy/purchase/borrow or checkout. Right now I am looking at a book that a friend wrote, and I'm also slowly reading Jed McKenna, Lao-Tzu and Nasargadatti. I got to meet and listen to Bart Campbell Wednesday night and he is a wonderful speaker and obviously teaches and speaks from a place of stillness. I was humbled to meet him and I believe I'll get his book also at some point.

I look forward to continuing to speak with you. As for you, what's your story or is there somewhere I can go to read about it in the interest of saving your time. : )

jeff

[souley]

Hey thanks LM, I think I have read every post of yours but it was definitely something new and very enjoyable.

I alternate between some place where I'm pretty free from myself and life is just what is is, and a place where I'm suffering in some way, no matter how little, where I feel that I just haaave to have an end to all this unnecessary suffering! It can be a desperate feeling, since I realize that I can't do nothing about it really.

And it is really totally like you described

At that time, there were a lot of nice spiritual experiences, but nothing stayed.... I would think that I "had it" and then it would go. It was frustrating, but also encouraging, because it suggested that progress was being made.

I know (feel) the world to be nothing like I previously thought at all. Everything is totally upside down, I have no clue who I am, what anything is, it is just extremely strange that the world exists. It is totally unexplainable and just ridiculous. But still I'm not enlightened. And I don't know if I'm close, and I don't know if that proves that I'm absolutely not close at all because I know that I can't be enlightened since there is no I. "I get frustrated because I don't know that I don't exist". It's hilarious and frustrating.. So I wonder if I'm insane or something, but then I realize I don't care about that anymore.

So maybe it is just habits of thought, thinking I I I all the time, defending myself, protecting myself from all my emotions, getting annoyed over that, not being clear/spiritual enough. So yeah maybe I continue practice and habits obviously can die, but everything about it is just as zendancer would put it: LOL!

I can understand Questions doubts about all the crap thats posted here.. but the world just seems to be that silly. Maybe I should give up, "just let go". LOL again!!