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Post by laughter on Jun 24, 2020 0:06:53 GMT -5
The Passion surely illustrates that limit to which an individual might gain some measure of apparent control over their emotions, , and in a very poignant way that's far more than the usual sad commentary on the worst aspects of human nature taken to violent extremes. And what I mean by that, isn't so much how Jesus the man faced it, but the effect of Christ on the collective human psyche over time. Indeed, Jesus' life and death have had a profound effect on the collective human psyche as you say. And I wouldn't be surprised either if Nisargadatta's life to have had a similar kind of impact on the human psyche well into the future. Have you read about his last days and death? This one is interesting but doesn't reveal in it his actual finals moments but extremely revealing nonetheless. It comes from a book that supposedly does though. The Last Days : Last TeachingsGood thing that those recordings and transcriptions were made .. despite that last teaching. His point that they're spontaneous is borne out by how often they get misused in forum debates. But that's just an inevitable side effect of his having spoken the truth so directly and skillfully, as was his followers devotion to him, even to the end. For as long as there are people lost in the existential illusion, this Unicity that he's spoke of, will manifest interest in words like his. That, also, is part of that "living of the dream". It's almost as if his admonishment of his followers that they should have stopped coming years ago, was sort of the old man's own little blind spot: true in one context, false in another.
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Post by laughter on Jun 24, 2020 8:05:41 GMT -5
Good thing that those recordings and transcriptions were made .. despite that last teaching. His point that they're spontaneous is borne out by how often they get misused in forum debates. But that's just an inevitable side effect of his having spoken the truth so directly and skillfully, as was his followers devotion to him, even to the end. For as long as there are people lost in the existential illusion, this Unicity that he's spoke of, will manifest interest in words like his. That, also, is part of that "living of the dream". It's almost as if his admonishment of his followers that they should have stopped coming years ago, was sort of the old man's own little blind spot: true in one context, false in another. What do you know about blind spots? Well, it's a tautology that I can't see my own, after all.
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Post by laughter on Jun 24, 2020 9:39:37 GMT -5
Well, it's a tautology that I can't see my own, after all. well if you ever come across any I've found it mostly pointless to point them out to folks (** casually directs gaze out window **)
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 24, 2020 18:41:13 GMT -5
It's almost as if his admonishment of his followers that they should have stopped coming years ago, was sort of the old man's own little blind spot: true in one context, false in another. idk, I wonder if he was just prodding them on to make the commitment to dive deep like he had?
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Post by laughter on Jun 24, 2020 22:13:41 GMT -5
It's almost as if his admonishment of his followers that they should have stopped coming years ago, was sort of the old man's own little blind spot: true in one context, false in another. idk, I wonder if he was just prodding them on to make the commitment to dive deep like he had? What is unmistakable from simply the words alone is the sense of urgency he had in speaking with people. Sometimes, like with U.G., it almost seemed to border on frustration.
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Post by steven on Jun 24, 2020 22:38:17 GMT -5
100,000 years ago there was only the natural world, say 98% natural world, 2% psychological. Man (and woman) existed mostly in survival mode, dealt mostly with what is, present problems. Man lived in caves, ate what could be gathered and hunted. There was basically one circuit in the brain, neural patterns concerning what is. There was basically one movement in life, the movement of what is. Man began to learn to abstract, that is, develop language. So the present expanded into the future through language, the past as memory. So over the centuries the psychology of individuals developed further, and instead of just protecting the body, a self as memory further developed and eventually became more important that the body, and needed to be protected. So through the years and centuries another artificial circuitry developed in the brain, a second circuitry. And as this second circuitry developed and became important, collectively it became important, and family groups and groups of tribes became regions and countries. And these existed to defend an ideology, artificial constructs. So there were individuals within families within groups within tribes within cities within regions within countries. This is basically our world today. So today for most people two types of circuitry exists in the brain, the brain circuitry of physical survival and physical necessity, and a second circuitry, the psychological self devoted to the safety and survival of the psychological self. This second circuitry is the source and reason for discordance, disharmony, division, selfishness, bigotry, racism and war. Memory is not inherently bad. Only through memory does culture exist. Through language and memory we learned to build structures to live in besides caves. Through language and memory we learned to control the environment through better ways to heat our living structures, and make them cool. We learned to preserve food through refrigeration. So these things can belong to circuitry one, along with automobiles, trains and airplanes. These can belong to the natural movement of the natural world. But when there are children bullied in school and on the playground, this comes out of an unnatural circuitry. There are battles in sports, but at the end the victor and loser can shake hands and sometimes even hug. In knock-down-drag-out MMA battles the vanquished is knocked out or taps out, and the winner knows the battle is over, and ceases aggression, immediately. But when one human being rolls a person, already subdued by handcuffs, on to their stomach and holds their knee on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, with the help of two other people, this is circuitry two, the self perpetuating a crime against humanity. This is not the natural movement of the universe. When one person shoots another person running from them over 15 feet away, twice in the back, this is not a natural movement of the universe. This is circuitry two, a distorted self committing a travesty. Both concern situations which primarily end the way they do because of the color of the skin of each party. In both these cases, a warped psychology puts the perpetrator in a 98% unnatural psychology, circuitry two. Laws and guidelines must necessarily be changed (as is already happening in some cities). Most of us here probably live in a very real way protected lives. Most of us here probably do not have to think as we walk out the door, if I am not careful how I act, I could die today. Coronavirus has somewhat altered this, maybe it's a good thing that all of us have to think about protecting the body every day, at least to some extent. In the US, we are in a very real sense approaching a perfect storm. Politically, with the worst President in history coming up for reelection, Coronavirus, and Black Lives Matter, it seems we are reaching a pivotal point in history, A Perfect Storm. Only the two movements, a natural movement and an unnatural movement, explain two of the three, and the faulty approach and failures to defend against the Coronavirus can also be blamed on a nasty psychology of one person, POTUS. Most people with a horribly warped psychology, enough to abuse others, were abused a children. See the works of Alice Miller. This is the world we live in, today, in the US anyway. How do you know?....maybe right, maybe wrong 🤷🏻♂️ What if all that’s right?...What if all that’s wrong?
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 25, 2020 18:00:12 GMT -5
idk, I wonder if he was just prodding them on to make the commitment to dive deep like he had? What is unmistakable from simply the words alone is the sense of urgency he had in speaking with people. Sometimes, like with U.G., it almost seemed to border on frustration. Yes, agreed. To me, the urgency there was an expression of Love wanting to shake Itself awake. :-)
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 25, 2020 20:12:05 GMT -5
100,000 years ago there was only the natural world, say 98% natural world, 2% psychological. Man (and woman) existed mostly in survival mode, dealt mostly with what is, present problems. Man lived in caves, ate what could be gathered and hunted. There was basically one circuit in the brain, neural patterns concerning what is. There was basically one movement in life, the movement of what is. Man began to learn to abstract, that is, develop language. So the present expanded into the future through language, the past as memory. So over the centuries the psychology of individuals developed further, and instead of just protecting the body, a self as memory further developed and eventually became more important that the body, and needed to be protected. So through the years and centuries another artificial circuitry developed in the brain, a second circuitry. And as this second circuitry developed and became important, collectively it became important, and family groups and groups of tribes became regions and countries. And these existed to defend an ideology, artificial constructs. So there were individuals within families within groups within tribes within cities within regions within countries. This is basically our world today. So today for most people two types of circuitry exists in the brain, the brain circuitry of physical survival and physical necessity, and a second circuitry, the psychological self devoted to the safety and survival of the psychological self. This second circuitry is the source and reason for discordance, disharmony, division, selfishness, bigotry, racism and war. Memory is not inherently bad. Only through memory does culture exist. Through language and memory we learned to build structures to live in besides caves. Through language and memory we learned to control the environment through better ways to heat our living structures, and make them cool. We learned to preserve food through refrigeration. So these things can belong to circuitry one, along with automobiles, trains and airplanes. These can belong to the natural movement of the natural world. But when there are children bullied in school and on the playground, this comes out of an unnatural circuitry. There are battles in sports, but at the end the victor and loser can shake hands and sometimes even hug. In knock-down-drag-out MMA battles the vanquished is knocked out or taps out, and the winner knows the battle is over, and ceases aggression, immediately. But when one human being rolls a person, already subdued by handcuffs, on to their stomach and holds their knee on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, with the help of two other people, this is circuitry two, the self perpetuating a crime against humanity. This is not the natural movement of the universe. When one person shoots another person running from them over 15 feet away, twice in the back, this is not a natural movement of the universe. This is circuitry two, a distorted self committing a travesty. Both concern situations which primarily end the way they do because of the color of the skin of each party. In both these cases, a warped psychology puts the perpetrator in a 98% unnatural psychology, circuitry two. Laws and guidelines must necessarily be changed (as is already happening in some cities). Most of us here probably live in a very real way protected lives. Most of us here probably do not have to think as we walk out the door, if I am not careful how I act, I could die today. Coronavirus has somewhat altered this, maybe it's a good thing that all of us have to think about protecting the body every day, at least to some extent. In the US, we are in a very real sense approaching a perfect storm. Politically, with the worst President in history coming up for reelection, Coronavirus, and Black Lives Matter, it seems we are reaching a pivotal point in history, A Perfect Storm. Only the two movements, a natural movement and an unnatural movement, explain two of the three, and the faulty approach and failures to defend against the Coronavirus can also be blamed on a nasty psychology of one person, POTUS. Most people with a horribly warped psychology, enough to abuse others, were abused a children. See the works of Alice Miller. This is the world we live in, today, in the US anyway. How do you know?....maybe right, maybe wrong 🤷🏻♂️ What if all that’s right?...What if all that’s wrong? Hey Steven...good to hear from you. This was actually based on a new book I got of J Krishnamurti dialogues, from the 1980's. It was published in India and he's with his buddies from India. I find these few books are much better than the usual books, as they push him further. I think he goes only as deep as he is pushed. But I was struck, if one changed merely a few words, it is relevant to today's news (US news, Black Lives Matter and the protests). I try to bring us down to the nuts and bolts of the present world. Most here are only interested in the bottom line, basically, All Is One so nothing matters. But nobody lives this way. There is a great divide between groups of people. There are two different realities, actually visible. I have family members who are still for POTUS 100%, it's quite bizarre to me, how they don't see he is a complete moron, how he has dealt with the Coronavirus problem and present social issues. There's a whole ideology behind it, a very real kind of conditioning, really brainwashing. Some people just believe stuff that just isn't true. I may eventually get around to giving some direct quotes, the book is The Way of Intelligence. I just accept that the world we live in is actual, time and space functions, for the most part, the way it seems to function. This is basically the Two Truths, there is an Absolute Reality but this world is a relative world. Yes, nothing exists outside the Whole, but there is a world of potentiality, of individuated creativity. It all really boils down to whether there is such a thing as the evolution of consciousness, or not. For those who consider that not to be the case, they just go about meeting life as it comes, there isn't really a distinction between the functions thinking, feeling and doing, and consciousness. Either each man or woman is a kind of seed, or there really isn't individuation except in the sense of individual bodies, and these also are merely the movement of the Whole. I can't convince anyone which is the case. That's a choice. But I say there is always further. Consciousness is our ability to be able to take in more that is, and that can change.
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