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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 5:58:23 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to point to is that in setting an intent, this is not choicelessness. There is a choice to set an intent. Without this choice, the mind will go on wandering unintentionally, just like it does for most people. (But most people do not recognize the mind as merely wandering, they think they are intentionally thinking). [Still coming back to this with zd]. They realise that their thought is compulsive and it does what it wants despite their intent.
Yes, exactly. See post above. What is this something that enters here (enters the repeating cycle) to see the compulsion and sees that it automatically repeats itself? Why does lolly "choicelessly" observe? Setting an intent does not indicate choicelessness.
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2020 6:08:11 GMT -5
To summarize what he says in the above comment is,
'set an intent to do ATA-T' and soon you would know the truth that you haven't set any intent instead intent to do ATA-T happened by itself. (My like has disappeared twice from your post, so don't know what's going on there). Gopal, you have hit the nail on the head. Why do 99.99% of the people on the planet not come to this understanding, that there is nobody doing anything? If it's all just the universe, THIS, doing its thing, why do only a few come to this understanding? zd neglects the "two truths", the all-encompassing truth, but also the lesser truth, that in some mind-body-brains, which/(who) set an intent (to practice whatever, lolly has pointed this out pretty well with Ramana/Self-Inquiry, JK/choiceless awareness and _), find a break in the perpetual repeating cycle of self-acting which isn't self-acting but merely a "self"-perpetutating cultural flow, a meme-flow. (You, Gopal, have come very close to this knowledge. You came to the knowledge that Gopal cannot do anything. I consider it a good thing that you do not leap to the next step, that there is no Gopal. Of course, sdp has not either). A something has to enter the repeating cycle, and break the repetition. The key is how does this occur? It occurs the same way everything else occurs--impersonally. The idea, "I need to meditate, or do ATA-T," is an idea that arises in THIS. Again, there is no separate thinker. We can conceive of THIS as a field of infinite intelligent energy. Using conventional language, it manifests as human beings, but there are no separate entities inhabiting those human beings. Everything is a play of THIS. All existential "why" questions have exactly the same answer. Little children understand and reply, "Just because." Zen Masters hold up one finger in silence to point to the same understanding. Asking "why" is an intellectually-generated contextual error. It is appropriate to ask why in intellectual matters, but not in existential matters. Reality simply is.
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2020 6:11:59 GMT -5
They realise that their thought is compulsive and it does what it wants despite their intent.
Yes, exactly. See post above. What is this something that enters here (enters the repeating cycle) to see the compulsion and sees that it automatically repeats itself? Why does lolly "choicelessly" observe? Setting an intent does not indicate choicelessness. Where does the idea of setting an intent come from? Where does any idea come from? Do people have an idea to have an idea? All ideas come from THIS, the Unborn, the Infinite. There is nothing else here.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 6:17:04 GMT -5
Regardless of an intent like, 'I will observe breath,' the mind will go wandering unintentionally. At some point you'll notice, without intending to, that you've unintentionally gone a-wanderin'. However, because you have determined to watch breath, these unintended occurrences will keep coming back to that.
What's being pointed to is that there's no one who has an intent, no one who goes wandering, and no one who comes back. All of those ideas are related to the illusion of personal doership. There's only the Infinite manifesting however it manifests. The reason for pursuing activities, such as ATA-T, or shikan taza, or anything else that interrupts or suspends mind-talk is to create a sufficient degree of internal silence to trigger realizations that penetrate illusions created by mind-talk. Seeing through the illusion of the SVP changes the way everything is understood and also how life is lived. Effortlessness is then the case at all times, and there is no one who does anything. Another way of pointing to this is the statement, "Nothing ever happens." If we drive to the grocery store, it is the Infinite driving to the grocery store because that's all there is. Bankei called it "The Unborn." I like to call it "THIS." It is what sees, hears, feels, thinks, walks, talks, and acts, and in that field of being there is no separation. All separation is imaginary. I suggest shifting attention away from thoughts to direct sensory perception because it's a fast easy way to attain internal silence which seems highly correlated with the occurrence of realizations. Being able to stop thinking at will does not mean that there is an entity who is doing anything. In the form of a human being who pursues direct sensory perception THIS can totally stop thinking. Eckhart Tolle mentioned this recently in a talk. He was introduced to a fellow who could hold his breath under water for 7 minutes. He asked Tolle if he could do that. Tolle responded, "No, but I can stop thinking for 7 minutes." This is a follow-up to "my" last several posts. Only the "two truths" explains what's going on here. There is the mind-body-brain "zd's" POV, the all-encompassing Truth, the unmanifest Truth, that it is always and only the Whole acting. But there is a secondary truth, that there are individual mind-bodies, and in some of the individuated (E's term) mind-bodies, a 2 x 4 is injected into the spokes and stops the process of the "self"-repeating cycle of what is really cultural memes. And you are right, "practices" like ATA-T (and what lolly describes) help bring this realization, but the point I have been trying to make is that setting any kind of intent (what lolly is saying), is a choice. This explains why 99.99% of people on the planet keep perpetuating cultural memes, and .01% of people break the cycle. Now, I know you will only-stick-with the Universal Truth of only-Wholeness acting, but I can only stick with the two truths. zd does not deny that mind-bodies exist (as some do). Why deny there is an aspect (attention and awareness) attached to the individual mind-bodies which aids breaking the cycle, that it's not just the Whole acting through the mind-body?
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2020 6:35:30 GMT -5
What's being pointed to is that there's no one who has an intent, no one who goes wandering, and no one who comes back. All of those ideas are related to the illusion of personal doership. There's only the Infinite manifesting however it manifests. The reason for pursuing activities, such as ATA-T, or shikan taza, or anything else that interrupts or suspends mind-talk is to create a sufficient degree of internal silence to trigger realizations that penetrate illusions created by mind-talk. Seeing through the illusion of the SVP changes the way everything is understood and also how life is lived. Effortlessness is then the case at all times, and there is no one who does anything. Another way of pointing to this is the statement, "Nothing ever happens." If we drive to the grocery store, it is the Infinite driving to the grocery store because that's all there is. Bankei called it "The Unborn." I like to call it "THIS." It is what sees, hears, feels, thinks, walks, talks, and acts, and in that field of being there is no separation. All separation is imaginary. I suggest shifting attention away from thoughts to direct sensory perception because it's a fast easy way to attain internal silence which seems highly correlated with the occurrence of realizations. Being able to stop thinking at will does not mean that there is an entity who is doing anything. In the form of a human being who pursues direct sensory perception THIS can totally stop thinking. Eckhart Tolle mentioned this recently in a talk. He was introduced to a fellow who could hold his breath under water for 7 minutes. He asked Tolle if he could do that. Tolle responded, "No, but I can stop thinking for 7 minutes." This is a follow-up to "my" last several posts. Only the "two truths" explains what's going on here. There is the mind-body-brain "zd's" POV, the all-encompassing Truth, the unmanifest Truth, that it is always and only the Whole acting. But there is a secondary truth, that there are individual mind-bodies, and in some of the individuated (E's term) mind-bodies, a 2 x 4 is injected into the spokes and stops the process of the "self"-repeating cycle of what is really cultural memes. And you are right, "practices" like ATA-T (and what lolly describes) help bring this realization, but the point I have been trying to make is that setting any kind of intent (what lolly is saying), is a choice. This explains why 99.99% of people on the planet keep perpetuating cultural memes, and .01% of people break the cycle. Now, I know you will only-stick-with the Universal Truth of only-Wholeness acting, but I can only stick with the two truths. zd does not deny that mind-bodies exist (as some do). Why deny there is an aspect (attention and awareness) attached to the individual mind-bodies which aids breaking the cycle, that it's not just the Whole acting through the mind-body? In order to understand, a direct seeing is required. After the illusion of the SVP collapses, what's going on becomes obvious. Ramana's quote sums it up well, "The one point where all religions meet is the realization, in no mystical sense, but in the most worldly and everyday sense, the fact that God is everything and everything is God."
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 7:00:56 GMT -5
I don't know how to break up a post and reply individually, so will do so with color. (My like has disappeared twice from your post, so don't know what's going on there). Gopal, you have hit the nail on the head. Why do 99.99% of the people on the planet not come to this understanding, that there is nobody doing anything? If it's all just the universe, THIS, doing its thing, why do only a few come to this understanding? zd neglects the "two truths", the all-encompassing truth, but also the lesser truth, that in some mind-body-brains, which/(who) set an intent (to practice whatever, lolly has pointed this out pretty well with Ramana/Self-Inquiry, JK/choiceless awareness and _), find a break in the perpetual repeating cycle of self-acting which isn't self-acting but merely a "self"-perpetutating cultural flow, a meme-flow. (You, Gopal, have come very close to this knowledge. You came to the knowledge that Gopal cannot do anything. I consider it a good thing that you do not leap to the next step, that there is no Gopal. Of course, sdp has not either). A something has to enter the repeating cycle, and break the repetition. The key is how does this occur? It occurs the same way everything else occurs--impersonally. The idea, "I need to meditate, or do ATA-T," is an idea that arises in THIS. Disagree. (But of course it doesn't occur outside THIS).Again, there is no separate thinker. Disagree, somewhat. There is no separate thinker, correct, (almost) all thinking originates in cultural memes. (All thoughts/abstractions come from the cultural meme, but some thoughts come-from a trying to point-to the unmanifest, so they are a cross/blend of words trying to point-to-what-cannot-be pointed-to). We can conceive of THIS as a field of infinite intelligent energy. Yes. Using conventional language, it manifests as human beings, Yes. but there are no separate entities inhabiting those human beings. Everything is a play of THIS. Disagree. The Whole-Universe peoples, makes mind-bodies (Alan Watts view that 'we' come-out-of/emerge-out-of the Whole, can't recall his exact words). So when we are born, we are United-with that Whole, Yes, we are THAT. However, the mind-body cannot survive by itself, like most animals can, it takes a village, a family, to protect and nourish the baby. We were once all-animals, but language developed, abstraction. So we have thousands of years of abstractions multiplying (about 50,000 years worth. Biologists cannot explain an explosion of intelligence about 50,000 years ago in humans. It's probably from knowledge being passed on via language). But we now have two tracks of humanity. We have the mind-body via sexual reproduction, but we have a track of knowledge perpetuated via memory and data collected through writing, and now computers and the internet. This perpetuated knowledge is the collective cultural meme. This is the source of the self, the small s self. The baby/little child begins to collect and store data, this takes approximately six years to form the false sense of self. So we are two, the true self as mind-body as born and the small s self as the collected information stored in the mind-body-brain. Now, of course the cultural memes are within the Whole/not apart from the Whole, but this collected information is what forms the false sense of separation in the "person". All existential "why" questions have exactly the same answer. Disagree, there are existential answers. Little children understand and reply, "Just because." Zen Masters hold up one finger in silence to point to the same understanding. Asking "why" is an intellectually-generated contextual error. It is appropriate to ask why in intellectual matters, but not in existential matters. Reality simply is. Disagree, as somewhat explained. By your POV, you stop all dialogue with anyone who does not have your understanding. Your POV is like flipping a light switch, it's either off or on (sudden "enlightenment"). The two truths is like a dimmer switch, it allows back and forth dialogue, and gradual "enlightenment". Attention and awareness are effective because they arise-out-of the Whole, not out-of cultural memes/perpetuated abstractions.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 7:15:13 GMT -5
This is a follow-up to "my" last several posts. Only the "two truths" explains what's going on here. There is the mind-body-brain "zd's" POV, the all-encompassing Truth, the unmanifest Truth, that it is always and only the Whole acting. But there is a secondary truth, that there are individual mind-bodies, and in some of the individuated (E's term) mind-bodies, a 2 x 4 is injected into the spokes and stops the process of the "self"-repeating cycle of what is really cultural memes. And you are right, "practices" like ATA-T (and what lolly describes) help bring this realization, but the point I have been trying to make is that setting any kind of intent (what lolly is saying), is a choice. This explains why 99.99% of people on the planet keep perpetuating cultural memes, and .01% of people break the cycle. Now, I know you will only-stick-with the Universal Truth of only-Wholeness acting, but I can only stick with the two truths. zd does not deny that mind-bodies exist (as some do). Why deny there is an aspect (attention and awareness) attached to the individual mind-bodies which aids breaking the cycle, that it's not just the Whole acting through the mind-body? In order to understand, a direct seeing is required. After the illusion of the SVP collapses, what's going on becomes obvious. Ramana's quote sums it up well, "The one point where all religions meet is the realization, in no mystical sense, but in the most worldly and everyday sense, the fact that God is everything and everything is God." I agree that direct seeing is required. I don't doubt your experience and realizations. But you are crossing a 100 ft chasm with a 99 ft rope. I will just lay it out there, you do not need to respond. sdp considers zd has formed an abstraction from your experience/non-experience/realizations (from the beginning, eleven years, had this view of zd). Now, this allows for very efficient operation in-the-world. But the last ft is the distinctive individuated mind-body-brain zd operating in the world (not just the Whole operating). You, zd, in a very real sense both agree with this and disagree with this (functionally), even though you deny it. I don't care to argue this.
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2020 7:33:11 GMT -5
In order to understand, a direct seeing is required. After the illusion of the SVP collapses, what's going on becomes obvious. Ramana's quote sums it up well, "The one point where all religions meet is the realization, in no mystical sense, but in the most worldly and everyday sense, the fact that God is everything and everything is God." I agree that direct seeing is required. I don't doubt your experience and realizations. But you are crossing a 100 ft chasm with a 99 ft rope. I will just lay it out there, you do not need to respond. sdp considers zd has formed an abstraction from your experience/non-experience/realizations. Now, this allows for very efficient operation in-the-world. But the last ft is the distinctive individuated mind-body-brain zd operating in the world (not just the Whole operating). You, zd, in a very real sense both agree with this and disagree with this (functionally), even though you deny it. I don't care to argue this. Yes, we have to use abstractions to communicate, but abstractions can only be used to point to what lies beyond abstractions. The real value of realizations lies in how they affect daily life. The conventional perspective looks at reality from "the outside" as an observer. By contrast, a sage becomes one-with reality, so there's no longer an inside or outside. This puts the sage into a state of flow, or a state of being, with whatever is happening. In this sense a sage psychologically disappears INTO what's happening. This makes life effortless, simple, obvious, playful, worry-free, and joyous compared to the alternative.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 7:42:32 GMT -5
I agree that direct seeing is required. I don't doubt your experience and realizations. But you are crossing a 100 ft chasm with a 99 ft rope. I will just lay it out there, you do not need to respond. sdp considers zd has formed an abstraction from your experience/non-experience/realizations. Now, this allows for very efficient operation in-the-world. But the last ft is the distinctive individuated mind-body-brain zd operating in the world (not just the Whole operating). You, zd, in a very real sense both agree with this and disagree with this ( functionally), even though you deny it. I don't care to argue this. Yes, we have to use abstractions to communicate, but abstractions can only be used to point to what lies beyond abstractions. The real value of realizations lies in how they affect daily life. The conventional perspective looks at reality from "the outside" as an observer. By contrast, a sage becomes one-with reality, so there's no longer an inside or outside. This puts the sage into a state of flow, or a state of being, with whatever is happening. In this sense a sage psychologically disappears INTO what's happening. This makes life effortless, simple, obvious, playful, worry-free, and joyous compared to the alternative. (Just popped back in to slightly edit my last post). Yes, understand. This is part of the reason wrote functionally.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 10:37:08 GMT -5
To summarize what he says in the above comment is,
'set an intent to do ATA-T' and soon you would know the truth that you haven't set any intent instead intent to do ATA-T happened by itself. (My like has disappeared twice from your post, so don't know what's going on there). Gopal, you have hit the nail on the head. Why do 99.99% of the people on the planet not come to this understanding, that there is nobody doing anything? If it's all just the universe, THIS, doing its thing, why do only a few come to this understanding? zd neglects the "two truths", the all-encompassing truth, but also the lesser truth, that in some mind-body-brains, which/(who) set an intent (to practice whatever, lolly has pointed this out pretty well with Ramana/Self-Inquiry, JK/choiceless awareness and _), find a break in the perpetual repeating cycle of self-acting which isn't self-acting but merely a "self"-perpetutating cultural flow, a meme-flow. (You, Gopal, have come very close to this knowledge. You came to the knowledge that Gopal cannot do anything. I consider it a good thing that you do not leap to the next step, that there is no Gopal. Of course, sdp has not either). A something has to enter the repeating cycle, and break the repetition. The key is how does this occur? Actually what I know clearly here is, I know everything moves as one. I recently posted a question to someNothing in Gab here Here is the post, you may have to read this post
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 10:38:27 GMT -5
To summarize what he says in the above comment is,
'set an intent to do ATA-T' and soon you would know the truth that you haven't set any intent instead intent to do ATA-T happened by itself. If that is what was meant, then I totally agree. I clearly know what you mean by 'personal self hood is illusion', so I can give any example as to what you mean by that.
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2020 11:32:58 GMT -5
(My like has disappeared twice from your post, so don't know what's going on there). Gopal, you have hit the nail on the head. Why do 99.99% of the people on the planet not come to this understanding, that there is nobody doing anything? If it's all just the universe, THIS, doing its thing, why do only a few come to this understanding? zd neglects the "two truths", the all-encompassing truth, but also the lesser truth, that in some mind-body-brains, which/(who) set an intent (to practice whatever, lolly has pointed this out pretty well with Ramana/Self-Inquiry, JK/choiceless awareness and _), find a break in the perpetual repeating cycle of self-acting which isn't self-acting but merely a "self"-perpetutating cultural flow, a meme-flow. (You, Gopal, have come very close to this knowledge. You came to the knowledge that Gopal cannot do anything. I consider it a good thing that you do not leap to the next step, that there is no Gopal. Of course, sdp has not either). A something has to enter the repeating cycle, and break the repetition. The key is how does this occur? Actually what I know clearly here is, I know everything moves as one. I recently posted a question to someNothing in Gab here Here is the post, you may have to read this post
I'm not sure what SN wrote that you're responding to, but SN is very clear. From my POV there is a big difference between being a witness in a movie and real life. In real life what we are plays all of the roles, so we are both the movie and that which watches the movie. The observer is not separate from what is observed. This issue reminds me of another statement from a book about Ramana: "From this point the mental comprehension begins, and all it amounts to is the breaking of a habit. One has to cease calling things things and to call them God, and instead of thinking them to be things, to know them to be God; instead of imagining existence to be the only thing possible, to realize that existence is only a creation of mind and that non-existence is a necessity if you are going to postulate existence. The knowledge of things only shows the existence of an organ to cognize."
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2020 15:10:36 GMT -5
(My like has disappeared twice from your post, so don't know what's going on there). Gopal, you have hit the nail on the head. Why do 99.99% of the people on the planet not come to this understanding, that there is nobody doing anything? If it's all just the universe, THIS, doing its thing, why do only a few come to this understanding? zd neglects the "two truths", the all-encompassing truth, but also the lesser truth, that in some mind-body-brains, which/(who) set an intent (to practice whatever, lolly has pointed this out pretty well with Ramana/Self-Inquiry, JK/choiceless awareness and _), find a break in the perpetual repeating cycle of self-acting which isn't self-acting but merely a "self"-perpetutating cultural flow, a meme-flow. (You, Gopal, have come very close to this knowledge. You came to the knowledge that Gopal cannot do anything. I consider it a good thing that you do not leap to the next step, that there is no Gopal. Of course, sdp has not either). A something has to enter the repeating cycle, and break the repetition. The key is how does this occur? It occurs the same way everything else occurs--impersonally. The idea, "I need to meditate, or do ATA-T," is an idea that arises in THIS. Again, there is no separate thinker. We can conceive of THIS as a field of infinite intelligent energy. Using conventional language, it manifests as human beings, but there are no separate entities inhabiting those human beings. Everything is a play of THIS. All existential "why" questions have exactly the same answer. Little children understand and reply, "Just because." Zen Masters hold up one finger in silence to point to the same understanding. Asking "why" is an intellectually-generated contextual error. It is appropriate to ask why in intellectual matters, but not in existential matters. Reality simply is. For like about 6 months after Tolle "blew my mind" I had zero curiosity about what had happened. Just bliss. But eventually I went looking on the web for a place to discuss it. A few weeks or maybe a month after finding this little Tolle forum, a long-time TM meditator there - a guy named andy - posted a one liner thread along the lines of "who thinks your thoughts? If 'you' think that 'your thoughts' are 'yours', then .. think again, thinking just happens ..". At first I reacted to this with a conditioned skepticism, but what I'd experienced because of watching the thinker, and witnessing the sustained collapse of the "I-thought", suspended that opinion. ... ... he was the guy who recommended "Iron Cow".
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Post by lolly on May 7, 2020 20:11:12 GMT -5
They realise that their thought is compulsive and it does what it wants despite their intent.
Yes, exactly. See post above. What is this something that enters here (enters the repeating cycle) to see the compulsion and sees that it automatically repeats itself? Why does lolly "choicelessly" observe? Setting an intent does not indicate choicelessness. I have no idea what observes, just that there is observation, and also, that people tend to overlook their tendencies. During my day I overlook it, but during my deliberate meditation time I notice much more and am aware of very subtle nuances.
I think we have to make categories of will to talk about this subject. First category is 'intent' defined as the ability to direct and focus attention to see it 'as it is'. Second category is 'volition' which is using will power to make it 'as you want it to be'. The former is very obvious because if you determine to feel your breath, you will notice some sort of feeling there. The latter is a bit more complicated, and I won't go into the details now, but mindfulness is essentially the cessation of volition. This is choiceless in the sense that you see it 'as it is' without doing anything to make it 'as you want it to be'.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 7, 2020 23:49:18 GMT -5
Yes, exactly. See post above. What is this something that enters here (enters the repeating cycle) to see the compulsion and sees that it automatically repeats itself? Why does lolly "choicelessly" observe? Setting an intent does not indicate choicelessness. I have no idea what observes, just that there is observation, and also, that people tend to overlook their tendencies. During my day I overlook it, but during my deliberate meditation time I notice much more and am aware of very subtle nuances. I think we have to make categories of will to talk about this subject. First category is 'intent' defined as the ability to direct and focus attention to see it 'as it is'. Second category is 'volition' which is using will power to make it 'as you want it to be'. The former is very obvious because if you determine to feel your breath, you will notice some sort of feeling there. The latter is a bit more complicated, and I won't go into the details now, but mindfulness is essentially the cessation of volition. This is choiceless in the sense that you see it 'as it is' without doing anything to make it 'as you want it to be'.
But why do you make the distinction between "during my day" and "deliberate meditation time"? Why not carry the observation more into "during my day"? And: Have you not noticed an inherent contradiction in the words used to describe ~your process~? You have written about seeing the mind having a tendency to wander off thinking this and that (my words). There is no control here. But then you call trying to control what happens, volition. This is what's imaginary, there is no volition in this sense. A something trying to control here, control the thinking, mind trying to control itself or self trying to control the mind, is all imaginary. So why do you call it volition when you also seem to know ATST that it all just happens? Don't you see the contradiction? All one can do is observe what's happening, one cannot control what's happening, can't control thoughts, feelings or bodily actions. But you absolutely know you can observe. You demonstrate you know you can observe. It's obvious from your posts over the years that you can observe. And that's what's volitional (because you know you can do it), the observing. You can in a sense call it choiceless, because ego/small s self is not involved in the observing, it is not what observes. But sdp prefers to call it volitional precisely because ego/small s self is not involved in the seeing. Ego/small s self is what is seen. (And this is for zd. Is it not apparent that the universe involves a degrading process of entropy? (Almost) all things left alone degrade, disintegrate, lose order, decrease in capability to do work. Life is the only something in the universe which counters this increasing move to increasing negative entropy, that is, left alone, things fall apart. But scientists cannot explain life. Scientists cannot make life. Life only comes from life. So life is not a bottom up phenomenon. Life originates from Top down. But the Top is invisible, unmanifest. So there is not one movement of the Whole. There are two movements. To scientists, physicists, the universe as a whole always moves toward increasing negative entropy. Ask any physicist, the one incontrovertible law in the universe is the second law of thermodynamics, entropy always increases. But the other movement is life, life decreases entropy (in its immediate environment, the total entropy of the universe always increases). The essence of the meaning of increasing entropy is the fact that it is impossible to build a perpetual motion machine. In any mechanical device, you can't get more energy out of it that you put in, you can't even break even. So the very purpose of the whole universe, is to make life possible, manifest life. And the manifest life arises out of the invisible unmanifest life, which invisibly permeates the whole. These two flows are the yin and the yang of the universe. The human body is as close as one can come to a perpetual motion machine).
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