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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 0:39:20 GMT -5
There are two kind of manifestation, one is when you have a very strong desire, when you have very strong desire, you don't have to do a thing, you don't have to do anything with your attention, you just have to do your other works(don't need to do anything to bring your desire to manifestation), it will come on your way. Second thing is, Deliberate Manifestation, here is where we are directing our attention because we use affirmation or visualization to create our reality, I strongly believe Abe is talking about the second one because he is saying "In an attraction-based universe, there is no such thing as no. Your attention to it says yes to it" and also he is not saying only when you have desire, he is saying that anything you want to manifest. First one will create a permanent reality which will not be collapsed after it has been created but second one will be collapsed once after it's been created unless we continue to hold our inner image through affirmation or visualization. In essence, there is only one kind of manifestation - that which matches your state of being. What you are talking about is different levels of resistance/misalignment and how that affects manifestation. And in that sense, there are as many kinds of manifestation as there are individual creators. But what you are describing there, Abe would put into the category of 'trying too hard'. Remember, Abe teach allowing, not making things happen. This is a radically different mindset and approach to life, especially in this action and manifestation oriented modern day society. What we all have in common is that we all have desires. That's one constant thu-out the ages. And nobody really knows where desires come from, how they arise, but once they are there, they are there. And we feel a natural urge to see them fulfilled. Now, what to do? How that question is answered individually is basically the key to understanding people's individual approach to life. And how that question is answered collectively is basically the key to understanding world religions. You are talking about 'trying too hard' and 'resistance'
I am not talking about trying too hard instead I am talking about deliberate manifestation, when one employs some technique like visualization, affirmation, subliminal messaging they are in deliberate manifestation process.
Now let me come to the resistance part.
Resistance is possible for the very first time when you try to manifest something. Once you manifested something, then it's not possible to resist, you start to believe like 'If I jump, I will come down'.
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Post by inavalan on Mar 23, 2021 12:40:35 GMT -5
" you are not in the process of creating while you are dreaming" is an important statement. It was also stated by Seth in different ways, for example: The "physical reality creation" occurring only while awake, and not while asleep, is observable if you pay attention to the clock-time in your dream: when you're lucid inside your dream, your perception of the awake-time remains at the clock-time when you fell asleep, and it jumps to the actual clock-time the moment you wake up, when your subconscious re-starts "physical reality creation". I actually thought that that's where Abe and Seth would disagree. But it all depends on how we define 'dream' or 'dream world', of course. What Abe refer to as dreams is the short period of time before waking up, so in that sense it's purely an abstraction (they call it interpretation) and therefore not deliberate creating. When Seth talks about the dream world, he usually refers to the non-physical, which he calls the psyche. But that's the inner ego realm again. I see. I am not familiar enough with Abraham, and even with Seth from which I haven't extensively read. I may mistakenly apply to them some of my beliefs. We might also understand their explanations differently in some respects. For example for me, the concept of "inner ego realm" has no meaning. |
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Post by inavalan on Mar 23, 2021 12:42:16 GMT -5
I think that this quote, the previous one about the "Attraction-based Universe", and your comment about being reactive, come together nicely. These quotes are all taken from the Law of Attraction card deck. They are short and to the point, almost like sutras. If you read it all together in sequence, it's the ultimate LOA/deliberate creation for dummies course, hehe. I remember finding and looking at that card deck on the internet, some time ago, after I read one of the quotes you posted. I shared it with others. |
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Post by inavalan on Mar 23, 2021 13:00:34 GMT -5
In essence, there is only one kind of manifestation - that which matches your state of being. What you are talking about is different levels of resistance/misalignment and how that affects manifestation. And in that sense, there are as many kinds of manifestation as there are individual creators. But what you are describing there, Abe would put into the category of 'trying too hard'. Remember, Abe teach allowing, not making things happen. This is a radically different mindset and approach to life, especially in this action and manifestation oriented modern day society. What we all have in common is that we all have desires. That's one constant thu-out the ages. And nobody really knows where desires come from, how they arise, but once they are there, they are there. And we feel a natural urge to see them fulfilled. Now, what to do? How that question is answered individually is basically the key to understanding people's individual approach to life. And how that question is answered collectively is basically the key to understanding world religions. You are talking about 'trying too hard' and 'resistance'
I am not talking about trying too hard instead I am talking about deliberate manifestation, when one employs some technique like visualization, affirmation, subliminal messaging they are in deliberate manifestation process.
Now let me come to the resistance part.
Resistance is possible for the very first time when you try to manifest something. Once you manifested something, then it's not possible to resist, you start to believe like 'If I jump, I will come down'.
Can you describe how manifestation works, in your view? Who manifests and how and why? Not the technique, but the actual process. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 23, 2021 20:56:47 GMT -5
In essence, there is only one kind of manifestation - that which matches your state of being. What you are talking about is different levels of resistance/misalignment and how that affects manifestation. And in that sense, there are as many kinds of manifestation as there are individual creators. But what you are describing there, Abe would put into the category of 'trying too hard'. Remember, Abe teach allowing, not making things happen. This is a radically different mindset and approach to life, especially in this action and manifestation oriented modern day society. What we all have in common is that we all have desires. That's one constant thu-out the ages. And nobody really knows where desires come from, how they arise, but once they are there, they are there. And we feel a natural urge to see them fulfilled. Now, what to do? How that question is answered individually is basically the key to understanding people's individual approach to life. And how that question is answered collectively is basically the key to understanding world religions. You are talking about 'trying too hard' and 'resistance' I am not talking about trying too hard instead I am talking about deliberate manifestation, when one employs some technique like visualization, affirmation, subliminal messaging they are in deliberate manifestation process. Now let me come to the resistance part.
Resistance is possible for the very first time when you try to manifest something. Once you manifested something, then it's not possible to resist, you start to believe like 'If I jump, I will come down'.
And that's exactly the 'trying too hard' (or 'efforting') part. According to Abe, none of that is necessary in order to have your desires fulfilled. You could, theoretically, get anything you want just by relaxing all day and dangling your feet in the water. Remember, it's Law of Attraction, not Law of Making Things Happen. These are totally different mindsets based on a fundamentally different understanding of your place and role in the universe. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 23, 2021 23:05:15 GMT -5
There are two kind of manifestation, one is when you have a very strong desire, when you have very strong desire, you don't have to do a thing, you don't have to do anything with your attention, you just have to do your other works(don't need to do anything to bring your desire to manifestation), it will come on your way. Second thing is, Deliberate Manifestation, here is where we are directing our attention because we use affirmation or visualization to create our reality, I strongly believe Abe is talking about the second one because he is saying "In an attraction-based universe, there is no such thing as no. Your attention to it says yes to it" and also he is not saying only when you have desire, he is saying that anything you want to manifest. First one will create a permanent reality which will not be collapsed after it has been created but second one will be collapsed once after it's been created unless we continue to hold our inner image through affirmation or visualization. In essence, there is only one kind of manifestation - that which matches your state of being. What you are talking about is different levels of resistance/misalignment and how that affects manifestation. And in that sense, there are as many kinds of manifestation as there are individual creators. But what you are describing there, Abe would put into the category of 'trying too hard'. Remember, Abe teach allowing, not making things happen. This is a radically different mindset and approach to life, especially in this action and manifestation oriented modern day society. What we all have in common is that we all have desires. That's one constant thu-out the ages. And nobody really knows where desires come from, how they arise, but once they are there, they are there. And we feel a natural urge to see them fulfilled. Now, what to do? How that question is answered individually is basically the key to understanding people's individual approach to life. And how that question is answered collectively is basically the key to understanding world religions.  " Duckbunnies. Duckbunnies everywhere!" |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 27, 2021 21:57:38 GMT -5
I actually thought that that's where Abe and Seth would disagree. But it all depends on how we define 'dream' or 'dream world', of course. What Abe refer to as dreams is the short period of time before waking up, so in that sense it's purely an abstraction (they call it interpretation) and therefore not deliberate creating. When Seth talks about the dream world, he usually refers to the non-physical, which he calls the psyche. But that's the inner ego realm again. I see. I am not familiar enough with Abraham, and even with Seth from which I haven't extensively read. I may mistakenly apply to them some of my beliefs. We might also understand their explanations differently in some respects. For example for me, the concept of "inner ego realm" has no meaning. Yes, we might read them in a slightly different light. To me, Seth is like a lesser version of Abraham. Seth once said that there's a Seth 2, his big brother. And there are a couple of changelings where Jane channels Seth 2 (you can find parts of it in the Seth quotes thread). And when I first read Seth 2 speak, I was immediately reminded of Abraham. I actually only got into Seth because people used to ask Abe about Seth and what they think about Seth. And Abe always said, Abraham and Seth are the same vibration, chips of the same block. And I think that is true for the most part. But usually Seth is way more intellectual and technical than Abe. In fact, a lot of what Seth talks about in great detail, Abe would normally refuse to spend much time on, just saying, we don't really need to know that, that it's too much detail or irrelevant information that only messes up our otherwise glorious NOW experience. So in a sense, I see Seth as the younger and Abe as the older, more mature version. Where Abe and Seth really disagree is when it comes to the purpose of being. And I noticed that has also our major point of disagreement. Seth thinks we are here to evolve into a higher version of ourselves; Abe says, we are just here to enjoy life, period. As a result, and not surprisingly, a huge part of the Seth material (at least 1/3 of the public sessions and maybe 2/3 of the private sessions) is about past life material. On the other hand, you'll never find Abe spending much time on something like this. Abe are much more here and now oriented. You'll hear them frequently say when people dwell on past experiences: 'Okay, you had this experience. NOW what?' And this here and now orientation is one of the main reasons why I prefer Abe to Seth. Nevertheless, Seth covers a lot of (intellectually) interesting stuff Abe only mention in passing or in general terms. So I usually see Seth as providing great additional information. But to me, the real deal has always been Abe, not Seth. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 27, 2021 22:12:26 GMT -5
These quotes are all taken from the Law of Attraction card deck. They are short and to the point, almost like sutras. If you read it all together in sequence, it's the ultimate LOA/deliberate creation for dummies course, hehe. I remember finding and looking at that card deck on the internet, some time ago, after I read one of the quotes you posted. I shared it with others. There are 6 card decks in total, some on specific topics like relationships, money and health, and some more general ones on LOA and general well-being. If you add to these the booklet to their guided meditation CD and the book Ask And It Is Given, then you've basically got the entire Abe stuff in a nutshell for not much more than $100. A lot of their workshops, where you see their teaching applied to real world examples, you can find as a free bonus on youtube, either uploaded by Esther or other people. So their teaching is easily accessible to anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 22:14:33 GMT -5
I see. I am not familiar enough with Abraham, and even with Seth from which I haven't extensively read. I may mistakenly apply to them some of my beliefs. We might also understand their explanations differently in some respects. For example for me, the concept of "inner ego realm" has no meaning. Yes, we might read them in a slightly different light. To me, Seth is like a lesser version of Abraham. Seth once said that there's a Seth 2, his big brother. And there are a couple of changelings where Jane channels Seth 2 (you can find parts of it in the Seth quotes thread). And when I first read Seth 2 speak, I was immediately reminded of Abraham. I actually only got into Seth because people used to ask Abe about Seth and what they think about Seth. And Abe always said, Abraham and Seth are the same vibration, chips of the same block. And I think that is true for the most part. But usually Seth is way more intellectual and technical than Abe. In fact, a lot of what Seth talks about in great detail, Abe would normally refuse to spend much time on, just saying, we don't really need to know that, that it's too much detail or irrelevant information that only messes up our otherwise glorious NOW experience. So in a sense, I see Seth as the younger and Abe as the older, more mature version. Where Abe and Seth really disagree is when it comes to the purpose of being. And I noticed that has also our major point of disagreement. Seth thinks we are here to evolve into a higher version of ourselves; Abe says, we are just here to enjoy life, period. As a result, and not surprisingly, a huge part of the Seth material (at least 1/3 of the public sessions and maybe 2/3 of the private sessions) is about past life material. On the other hand, you'll never find Abe spending much time on something like this. Abe are much more here and now oriented. You'll hear them frequently say when people dwell on past experiences: 'Okay, you had this experience. NOW what?' And this here and now orientation is one of the main reasons why I prefer Abe to Seth. Nevertheless, Seth covers a lot of (intellectually) interesting stuff Abe only mention in passing or in general terms. So I usually see Seth as providing great additional information. But to me, the real deal has always been Abe, not Seth. Once you see the truth of reading is also a kind of seeking, you would stop doing so. And also once you know the greater truth of you are creating your own world and clarity has the power to change your world, you would give up all these reading because you know you are just exploring your boundaries with these readings. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 22:22:52 GMT -5
I remember finding and looking at that card deck on the internet, some time ago, after I read one of the quotes you posted. I shared it with others. There are 6 card decks in total, some on specific topics like relationships, money and health, and some more general ones on LOA and general well-being. If you add to these the booklet to their guided meditation CD and the book Ask And It Is Given, then you've basically got the entire Abe stuff in a nutshell for not much more than $100. A lot of their workshops, where you see their teaching applied to real world examples, you can find as a free bonus on youtube, either uploaded by Esther or other people. So their teaching is easily accessible to anyone. These LOA gurus don't know the greater truth that we are already creating our reality so setting up our intention to attain something is also created by us, since we are already creating our universe, this kind of secondary level creation is born of the illusion ! |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 27, 2021 22:27:32 GMT -5
Once you see the truth of reading is also a kind of seeking, you would stop doing so. And also once you know the greater truth of you are creating your own world and clarity has the power to change your world, you would give up all these reading because you know you are just exploring your boundaries with these readings. I have to disagree here. After all, what we are talking about here is the living truth, not some kind of final logical conclusion. THIS is a living thing (or no-thing). And no attempt trying to capture THIS will ever fully capture THIS. So in that sense, there's no end to exploring THIS and always new and slightly different ways of describing or pointing to THIS to discover. So if you are a slave to the living truth, aka truthin', then there's no room for that kind of closed-mindedness. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 27, 2021 22:47:36 GMT -5
There are 6 card decks in total, some on specific topics like relationships, money and health, and some more general ones on LOA and general well-being. If you add to these the booklet to their guided meditation CD and the book Ask And It Is Given, then you've basically got the entire Abe stuff in a nutshell for not much more than $100. A lot of their workshops, where you see their teaching applied to real world examples, you can find as a free bonus on youtube, either uploaded by Esther or other people. So their teaching is easily accessible to anyone. These LOA gurus don't know the greater truth that we are already creating our reality so setting up our intention to attain something is also created by us, since we are already creating our universe, this kind of secondary level creation is born of the illusion ! Well, I beg to differ here. I don't see A-H as just another LOA guru. Firstly, Esther and Jerry have been very successful business people and were multimillionaires long before they started the A-H stuff. IOW, they didn't get rich off their teachings. Unlike maybe 99% of all the other LOA gurus out there, they were already rich and they've been living what they were teaching long before they started teaching. In fact, Jerry had discovered the truth about LOA many many years earlier, the hard way. Secondly, what A-H teach, in part, nicely dovetails with what other gurus teach, that we are all an extension of Source and that seeing the world thru the eyes of Source will reveal that separation is an illusion, that oneness is the case and that in fact there are no others and that the universe as a whole, every aspect of it, is alive. And that basically sums op the CC perspective, which is one side of the SR coin. So I'd say that Esther definitely has a reference for what we are talking about here in a non-duality context. But Esther seems to be a rather areligious, aspiritual person in terms of basic orientation. So I'd speculate she wouldn't enjoy the kind theories you are spinning here. So what you get from her is mostly just sound practical advice, for living in the HERE and the NOW. And I'm sorry that I have to say this, but this illusion talk we are getting from you, so far has been proven to be devoid of any practical implications for the HERE and NOW. |
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Post by inavalan on Mar 27, 2021 23:09:44 GMT -5
Reefs : Interesting. As you probably noticed, I like Seth more. On the other hand I avoid reading too much of it, as I don't want to get biased. I remember asking my inner-guidance about Seth, and the reply was that Seth is a "less experienced, but enthusiastic" teacher, and that what Jane channeled is 80-85% accurate. I occasionally browse Seth, or use the Seth search-engine, to see what he says on a given subject. The knowledge I gather from tapping my inner-guide is much less wordy, more concise and structured. Maybe it is specifically tailored for my engineering formation. There seem to be some differences, at least at first interpretation. Seth was saying somewhere that he tries a different way of teaching than some other non-physical teachers, because he believes his way to be more effective. One of the reasons, if I remember correctly, was that other teachers rely more on the regular non-physical projections of their pupils (dream, death), while he, Seth, thinks that channeling teachings for a larger audience could be more effective, a kind of "server-push" (the delivery of information is initiated by the information server rather than by the information user). My inner-guide says that we're here to practice conscious reality creation, and need to do some growth for that.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 27, 2021 23:57:28 GMT -5
Reefs : Interesting. As you probably noticed, I like Seth more. On the other hand I avoid reading too much of it, as I don't want to get biased. I remember asking my inner-guidance about Seth, and the reply was that Seth is a "less experienced, but enthusiastic" teacher, and that what Jane channeled is 80-85% accurate. I occasionally browse Seth, or use the Seth search-engine, to see what he says on a given subject. The knowledge I gather from tapping my inner-guide is much less wordy, more concise and structured. Maybe it is specifically tailored for my engineering formation. There seem to be some differences, at least at first interpretation. Seth was saying somewhere that he tries a different way of teaching than some other non-physical teachers, because he believes his way to be more effective. One of the reasons, if I remember correctly, was that other teachers rely more on the regular non-physical projections of their pupils (dream, death), while he, Seth, thinks that channeling teachings for a larger audience could be more effective, a kind of "server-push" (the delivery of information is initiated by the information server rather than by the information user). My inner-guide says that we're here to practice conscious reality creation, and need to do some growth for that. Yes, I'm aware of that. And I can accept that and also respect that. I usually see other teachers as either a tool on the path or a source of inspiration, not actually truth givers, because (as Abe say), words don't teach, only life experience does. So whatever insights we gather from others, we have to integrate somehow or else it would be just information, not real knowledge. In that sense, it's probably not fair to call one teacher better than another teacher without giving any context, because a lot of teachings which I would consider highly misleading now, at one point did help me a lot in terms of gaining greater clarity. So looking at it that way, it's all good as long as one doesn't get stuck with a specific teacher or teaching or concept. I am always looking for a better, more efficient way of pointing. That's basically my motivation behind exploring other teachers and teachings. They have differing backgrounds, vocabulary and ways of approaching one and the same subject. I actually think that Jane distorted a great deal of Seth's information. Seth mentioned that from time to time that Jane at times blocked certain information. Seth usually had a particularly hard time getting thru with information about God and religion. Esther, on the other hand, seems to be a much purer channel. Abraham once said that Esther is almost an ideal channel because she had almost no strong opinions about anything. Quite the opposite to Jane. In the past, Abe spoke of a triad of intentions that every one of us has: freedom, growth and joy. And when these 3 are in balance, life is good. They explained that freedom is basically a given, growth is more or less inevitable and so joy then would be the only thing we should really care about. They argued that if we make growth our number one goal, as most humans do because that's what society teaches us, then the triad gets out of balance, freedom and joy get neglected and we feel like little ants carrying a heavy load. Nowadays, they don't talk about joy so much, they've replaced it with satisfaction. And I think that's a much better way of explaining it. Because joy only describes the top end of the emotional scale. And no one really stays there forever. Satisfaction, however, can have different flavors, there's the quiet kind like contentment (the middle point of the emotional scale) and then there's the more exuberant kind like passion and elation (the top end of the emotional scale). So you see, even Abe's teaching is evolving somehow, nevertheless the core message remains one and the same. And looking at it that way, maybe you can find that approach meaningful, too. But in any case, what I always recommend is to stick with what you've realized yourself, don't let anyone talk you into or out of something by means of clever logic or fancy rhetoric or impressive guru quotes. But also keep an open mind, even people you disagree with 99% of the time may have something valuable to offer at times. I've read many really really bad books in terms of content and accuracy, but often there was one phrase or idea that was just so on point that it made reading the book worthwhile again. And that's the approach I would suggest in these discussions. Abe usually suggest to approach relationships or life in general as you would approach a buffet, i.e. you choose and pick the pieces you like and leave the rest where it is. There's no point in putting something on your plate and in your mouth that you know you won't enjoy, just because it's been there on the table. |
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Post by inavalan on Mar 28, 2021 0:27:20 GMT -5
Reefs : Interesting. As you probably noticed, I like Seth more. On the other hand I avoid reading too much of it, as I don't want to get biased. I remember asking my inner-guidance about Seth, and the reply was that Seth is a "less experienced, but enthusiastic" teacher, and that what Jane channeled is 80-85% accurate. I occasionally browse Seth, or use the Seth search-engine, to see what he says on a given subject. The knowledge I gather from tapping my inner-guide is much less wordy, more concise and structured. Maybe it is specifically tailored for my engineering formation. There seem to be some differences, at least at first interpretation. Seth was saying somewhere that he tries a different way of teaching than some other non-physical teachers, because he believes his way to be more effective. One of the reasons, if I remember correctly, was that other teachers rely more on the regular non-physical projections of their pupils (dream, death), while he, Seth, thinks that channeling teachings for a larger audience could be more effective, a kind of "server-push" (the delivery of information is initiated by the information server rather than by the information user). My inner-guide says that we're here to practice conscious reality creation, and need to do some growth for that. Yes, I'm aware of that. And I can accept that and also respect that. I usually see other teachers as either a tool on the path or a source of inspiration, not actually truth givers, because (as Abe say), words don't teach, only life experience does. So whatever insights we gather from others, we have to integrate somehow or else it would be just information, not real knowledge. In that sense, it's probably not fair to call one teacher better than another teacher without giving any context, because a lot of teachings which I would consider highly misleading now, at one point did help me a lot in terms of gaining greater clarity. So looking at it that way, it's all good as long as one doesn't get stuck with a specific teacher or teaching or concept. I am always looking for a better, more efficient way of pointing. That's basically my motivation behind exploring other teachers and teachings. They have differing backgrounds, vocabulary and ways of approaching one and the same subject. I actually think that Jane distorted a great deal of Seth's information. Seth mentioned that from time to time that Jane at times blocked certain information. Seth usually had a particularly hard time getting thru with information about God and religion. Esther, on the other hand, seems to be a much purer channel. Abraham once said that Esther is almost an ideal channel because she had almost no strong opinions about anything. Quite the opposite to Jane. In the past, Abe spoke of a triad of intentions that every one of us has: freedom, growth and joy. And when these 3 are in balance, life is good. They explained that freedom is basically a given, growth is more or less inevitable and so joy then would be the only thing we should really care about. They argued that if we make growth our number one goal, as most humans do because that's what society teaches us, then the triad gets out of balance, freedom and joy get neglected and we feel like little ants carrying a heavy load. Nowadays, they don't talk about joy so much, they've replaced it with satisfaction. And I think that's a much better way of explaining it. Because joy only describes the top end of the emotional scale. And no one really stays there forever. Satisfaction, however, can have different flavors, there's the quiet kind like contentment (the middle point of the emotional scale) and then there's the more exuberant kind like passion and elation (the top end of the emotional scale). So you see, even Abe's teaching is evolving somehow, nevertheless the core message remains one and the same. And looking at it that way, maybe you can find that approach meaningful, too. But in any case, what I always recommend is to stick with what you've realized yourself, don't let anyone talk you into or out of something by means of clever logic or fancy rhetoric or impressive guru quotes. But also keep an open mind, even people you disagree with 99% of the time may have something valuable to offer at times. I've read many really really bad books in terms of content and accuracy, but often there was one phrase or idea that was just so on point that it made reading the book worthwhile again. And that's the approach I would suggest in these discussions. Abe usually suggest to approach relationships or life in general as you would approach a buffet, i.e. you choose and pick the pieces you like and leave the rest where it is. There's no point in putting something on your plate and in your mouth that you know you won't enjoy, just because it's been there on the table. That makes sense. Regarding satisfaction: my inner-guidance on the desirable emotional state is to be proud of, and confident in yourself. (it isn't about love). To think, choose, act in order to feel so. |
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"Duckbunnies. Duckbunnies everywhere!"