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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 1, 2019 18:51:40 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I'm curious if anyone here has had any experience with the Finders Course and Dr. Jeffery Martin. The marketing materials make some bold claims with regards to success rate, but I'm not at a point where I can judge that sort of thing.
Any opinions?
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Post by laughter on Sept 1, 2019 19:56:08 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I'm curious if anyone here has had any experience with the Finders Course and Dr. Jeffery Martin. The marketing materials make some bold claims with regards to success rate, but I'm not at a point where I can judge that sort of thing. Any opinions? Hadn't heard about him or the material until reading this. It reminds me of Gary Weber's work. Are you familiar with that? |
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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 2, 2019 3:46:17 GMT -5
Hadn't heard about him or the material until reading this. It reminds me of Gary Weber's work. Are you familiar with that? Hi Laughter, I've come across Weber's name,probably from exploring this forum, but I'm unfamiliar with his work. Is it worth looking into? |
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Post by laughter on Sept 2, 2019 15:32:28 GMT -5
Hadn't heard about him or the material until reading this. It reminds me of Gary Weber's work. Are you familiar with that? Hi Laughter, I've come across Weber's name,probably from exploring this forum, but I'm unfamiliar with his work. Is it worth looking into? I'd say so, yes, but of course, that's just a subjective opinion.  Gary was someone who practiced meditation and yoga for decades and had an interest in self-inquiry as described by Ramana Maharshi. One day, as he put it, he just stopped thinking -- but was still able to function in his management position at a tech organization. He went on to study the structure of the brain and how that relates to meditation. |
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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 2, 2019 17:56:47 GMT -5
Sounds interesting! I'll check his stuff out.
Thanks!
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Post by laughter on Sept 2, 2019 18:26:29 GMT -5
Sounds interesting! I'll check his stuff out. Thanks! You're welcome. Another guy who had an interest in expressing a science of meditation is Sekida, who wrote "Zen Training". Are you interested in meditation as a practitioner, or more broadly in terms of the cultural phenomenon generally, or both? |
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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 3, 2019 20:38:32 GMT -5
Sounds interesting! I'll check his stuff out. Thanks! You're welcome. Another guy who had an interest in expressing a science of meditation is Sekida, who wrote "Zen Training". Are you interested in meditation as a practitioner, or more broadly in terms of the cultural phenomenon generally, or both? Both, I suppose. As a practitioner first and foremost. I think one of the reasons I'm attracted to a science based approach is that I'm looking for a commonality of language, i.e. are Jed Mckenna, UG Krishnamurti, and the Buddha all talking about the same thing? |
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Post by laughter on Sept 3, 2019 20:58:41 GMT -5
You're welcome. Another guy who had an interest in expressing a science of meditation is Sekida, who wrote "Zen Training". Are you interested in meditation as a practitioner, or more broadly in terms of the cultural phenomenon generally, or both? Both, I suppose. As a practitioner first and foremost. I think one of the reasons I'm attracted to a science based approach is that I'm looking for a commonality of language, i.e. are Jed Mckenna, UG Krishnamurti, and the Buddha all talking about the same thing? I can relate. When I first stumbled on to meditation + self-inquiry the effect was so transformative that eventually the curiosity got pretty intense. I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with meditation - how you got started, what methods you use, etc. -- but please don't feel obligated. So you're looking for commonality between Jed's "enlightenment", UG's "natural state" and the 3rd noble truth? |
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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 4, 2019 17:00:03 GMT -5
Well, not necessarily commonalities between those three, but a better idea of what a state of non dual consciousness is. I've been reading Jed lately, and his description of Truth Realization is something I find fascinating, so I would like to contrast that with other teachers. I used the Buddha as an example because of the historical importance, I suppose.
Plenty of teachers use the term "non duality" these days, but is it referring to unity or nothingness? In his first book, McKenna seems to label his Truth Realization of nothingness as non dual, but in book three he seems to use that term to describe a state of unity that wasn't TR.
I once read a book on hermetic qabalah that implied two levels of high attainment: All is One, followed by All is None.
I guess that's my starting point in thinking about the "ending" point.
I feel like I'm ranting a bit, I hope this makes sense.
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Post by laughter on Sept 5, 2019 8:50:58 GMT -5
Well, not necessarily commonalities between those three, but a better idea of what a state of non dual consciousness is. I've been reading Jed lately, and his description of Truth Realization is something I find fascinating, so I would like to contrast that with other teachers. I used the Buddha as an example because of the historical importance, I suppose. Plenty of teachers use the term "non duality" these days, but is it referring to unity or nothingness? In his first book, McKenna seems to label his Truth Realization of nothingness as non dual, but in book three he seems to use that term to describe a state of unity that wasn't TR. I once read a book on hermetic qabalah that implied two levels of high attainment: All is One, followed by All is None. I guess that's my starting point in thinking about the "ending" point. I feel like I'm ranting a bit, I hope this makes sense. Oh, no, not ranting, not at all, I can definitely relate. In Japanese Zen they have this term, "kensho", and there's a rich culture around it, describing a state of unity consciousness. They prescribe getting there by meditation, as in (simplifying here), frequent sustained practice might eventually trigger it. The goal of meditation itself is a state referred to as "absolute samadhi" or nirvikalpa samadhi, in which all internal movement of mind and external sensation fall away and the meditator enters a void of pure awareness. While there's no way to describe that in terms of content, it wouldn't really be accurate to describe it as "nothing". Each of these two states, unity/void, are transitory, while what U.G. and Jed (at least in the first book) are describing is permanent, and not related to any particular practice and can't be arrived at by any sort of conditioning. While I've found the Zen sources to be the richest and most insightful, I've also found I have to allow for having never really practiced as a Zen student. You'll find these topics recur quite a bit on this forum with references to various source material at times from different traditions. The closest translation between U.G.'s "natural state", Jed's "enlightenment" into Zen is "satori". Satori, Jed's "enlightenment" and U.G.'s "natural state" are all linked to the 3rd noble truth, which might be interpreted (but likely not by most Buddhists) as the permanent cessation of suffering for the individual. |
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Post by bluey on Sept 6, 2019 19:07:31 GMT -5
Hadn't heard about him or the material until reading this. It reminds me of Gary Weber's work. Are you familiar with that? Hi Laughter, I've come across Weber's name,probably from exploring this forum, but I'm unfamiliar with his work. Is it worth looking into? Definitely look up Gary Weber. Especially his video on YouTube 'Gary Weber stopped thinking, got smarter and sustainable' Also take a look at 'An hour of candid sharing with Tim Freke, Gary Weber, and Lisa Cairns Just to see how switched on their lights are. As each are asked a question and each answer from where they are at. But take a look at Bart Marshall too as he's just sprung to mind. He had been with Richard Rose but later met Douglas Harding. There's a video you can watch on YouTube titled Bart Marshall 'Only This Emptiness' But it's not just about reading books on spiritual teachers you have to visit one too. As they may tell you to ignore what's in the book or video for what's needed for you. You really have to want This more than anything else. Otherwise you will be wasting your time and effort, come to it in old age. As you marry, see off the kids and question what to do with your time. Read books, surf spiritual sites. Challenge teachers to pass time. Be in a Satsang with a teacher sitting with a vase with flowers placed in them. And jumping back and forth between finding your true nature and saying to the teacher can I just put you on hold whilst I tend to this. Tend to This present moment let That cultivate you. Not the other way around. A great sage Siddharameshwar Maharaj Pointed at the different types of seekers The way of the ant through meditation or the birds way Being in the presence of a realised teacher. Jesus mentions the same in Matthew the story of farmer sowing seeds. Or the paranoid the sower I once met a student of a teacher he was always putting people down. They don't know the value of being around a teacher. They around a teacher for just material gain how to better their dream and not really see the pointing. I'm just one pointed in my practice, meditation This seed has fallen on good ground not like in Mathew where the birds came along and ate them up or the weeds sprung up next to the practice and choked the plant.... But one day his wife had a miscarriage and he left the path saying how could the master allow this to happen.... |
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Post by thomsparrow on Sept 8, 2019 13:45:22 GMT -5
Bluey,
Thanks so much! I'll check out those videos.
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