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Post by zendancer on Jul 18, 2019 12:07:58 GMT -5
On what part? What I'm saying in the 1st paragraph or the bit about you not being interested in taking the conversation 'into the light'?
Not interested. We separated this thread from another spiritually-oriented thread because it was off topic. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 18, 2019 14:46:23 GMT -5
Absolutely! I have a pretty good idea, based on the evidence, of where we're heading, but there's no way to know for sure. Based on all the books I've read recently, I'd say that there's a 95% chance that we'll be at more than 2 degrees celsius in temp increase and more than 500 ppm CO2 by 2040, and it may be a lot worse than that. So far, almost every projection over the last 50 years has under=estimated the CO2 gain, and the rate of increase is now going parabolic. The documentary "Living the Change" shows what can be done, but the odds of that happening on a widespread basis seem slim. The climate thingy intrigues me for various reasons. For one thing, my degree was in geology, and my primary interest in geology was paleontology from about the age of 9. When I was in college, only one scientist in the department thought that continental drift (what we now call "plate tectonics") was a likely possibility, and I don't remember extinction events (other than the dinosaur extinction) ever being discussed. Fast forward 30 years, and I was shocked to discover that plate tectonics had been totally accepted by the scientific community due to an overwhelming accumulation of evidence that occurred after I left school. I didn't start reading about extinction events until about five years ago, and I was amazed at what had been discovered about those 5 bad boys. The Methodists made the front page of our local newspaper in Nashville this last weekend because, as a denomination, they have agreed that humans have a responsibility to care for the environment and to become active in doing whatever is necessary to protect all forms of life from destruction caused by global warming. The Pope and the Dalai Lama have also spoken out about this. For me it's more of an intellectual scientific challenge. First, what would need to be done in order to balance CO2 emissions with CO2 sequestration, and second, what is the likelihood that humans will do what needs to be done? Right now things look pretty grim, and I'm generally an optimist!  Do you see though, that all of that.... the future conditions of the world/earth, if/when they arise, are not 'actually' caused by CO2 levels, etc..? that CO2 levels are themselves appearances, ephemeral arisings within Being...part and parcel of the dream of life...a facet of the story? CO2, man's behaviors/practices that apparently go hand in hand in with such, ALL of it, just appearances, ephemeral arisings, that are actually not causal to anything else happening in the story?
I keep trying to bring this conversation (an in the story view) into 'the light,' (transcendent view) and it seems you're just not very interested in taking it there.  BS... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 17:23:25 GMT -5
On what part? What I'm saying in the 1st paragraph or the bit about you not being interested in taking the conversation 'into the light'?
We separated this thread from another spiritually-oriented thread because it was off topic. Okay. Just saying....I find that kinda odd being that this is a spirituality forum mostly dedicated to transcendent seeing......well, it used to be anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 17:27:35 GMT -5
Do you see though, that all of that.... the future conditions of the world/earth, if/when they arise, are not 'actually' caused by CO2 levels, etc..? that CO2 levels are themselves appearances, ephemeral arisings within Being...part and parcel of the dream of life...a facet of the story? CO2, man's behaviors/practices that apparently go hand in hand in with such, ALL of it, just appearances, ephemeral arisings, that are actually not causal to anything else happening in the story?
I keep trying to bring this conversation (an in the story view) into 'the light,' (transcendent view) and it seems you're just not very interested in taking it there. BS... Fair enough. But to me, the idea that something is going terribly, fundamentally wrong, is BS.
Who's right? All I know is, I can't unsee what I've seen that has me seeing that in the big scheme of things, all is well. Perfect. Not a hair outta place. That however does not mean that I am lacking compassion for those who appear to be suffering within the story of earthly doom. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 22:50:29 GMT -5
Fair enough. But to me, the idea that something is going terribly, fundamentally wrong, is BS.
Who's right? All I know is, I can't unsee what I've seen that has me seeing that in the big scheme of things, all is well. Perfect. Not a hair outta place. That however does not mean that I am lacking compassion for those who appear to be suffering within the story of earthly doom. See if this makes figs crack.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 0:18:13 GMT -5
Fair enough. But to me, the idea that something is going terribly, fundamentally wrong, is BS.
Who's right? All I know is, I can't unsee what I've seen that has me seeing that in the big scheme of things, all is well. Perfect. Not a hair outta place. That however does not mean that I am lacking compassion for those who appear to be suffering within the story of earthly doom. See if this makes figs crack.
"Crack" as in, lose sight of the fundamental perfection....? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 1:17:52 GMT -5
See if this makes figs crack.
"Crack" as in, lose sight of the fundamental perfection....? No luck.Imperturbable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 1:42:23 GMT -5
"Crack" as in, lose sight of the fundamental perfection....? No luck. Imperturbable.Seeing the fundamental perfection does not necessarily mean a complete absence of feeling perturbed. We're on a spiritual forum, thus, seems to me it's important to speak from the transcendent vantage point. I'm not incapable of having the "look at all the crazy sh*t going on in the world" conversation, it's just that it has it's place and is always trumped by the seeing that fundamentally, all is perfect.
Here's a little ditty I wrote & recorded a ways back that might give you a bit of satisfaction...wrote it after watching a program on overpopulation. 
Man in the Moon
Look around and tell me, Tell me what went wrong We closed our Eyes, got hypnotized Been sleeping far too long, War in the name of freedom, While the white doves cry To save our souls, we crucify
I don't have the answer, But I got a feeling we'll find out soon, Oh, Oh, No,
I don't have the answer, But I got a date with the man in the moon
Look around and tell me,
Tell me what you see While we explode, the chaos grows It's getting hard to breathe, Cloaked in their priestly robes they try to justify, Make sure they're born, so they can die
chorus
Dark clouds are moving closer, Out of time, Won't wait, they'll open up and cry......
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Post by zendancer on Jul 29, 2019 8:22:50 GMT -5
"Crack" as in, lose sight of the fundamental perfection....? No luck.Imperturbable. Because I've seen the perfection I guess I'm imperturbable too. ATST, I'm also fascinated by lots of relative issues such as financial policies, social policies, financial/economic education, how to improve peoples' lives, how to reduce inequality, what can be done to slow down global warming, how to build more energy-efficient homes, how most effectively to sequester carbon, etc. etc. etc. All of that is included in the perfection. |
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Post by enigma on Jul 29, 2019 10:07:49 GMT -5
Seeing the fundamental perfection does not necessarily mean a complete absence of feeling perturbed. We're on a spiritual forum, thus, seems to me it's important to speak from the transcendent vantage point. I'm not incapable of having the "look at all the crazy sh*t going on in the world" conversation, it's just that it has it's place and is always trumped by the seeing that fundamentally, all is perfect.
Here's a little ditty I wrote & recorded a ways back that might give you a bit of satisfaction...wrote it after watching a program on overpopulation. Man in the Moon
Look around and tell me, Tell me what went wrong We closed our Eyes, got hypnotized Been sleeping far too long, War in the name of freedom, While the white doves cry To save our souls, we crucify I don't have the answer, But I got a feeling we'll find out soon, Oh, Oh, No,
I don't have the answer, But I got a date with the man in the moon Look around and tell me,
Tell me what you see While we explode, the chaos grows It's getting hard to breathe, Cloaked in their priestly robes they try to justify, Make sure they're born, so they can die chorus Dark clouds are moving closer, Out of time, Won't wait, they'll open up and cry......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 12:27:18 GMT -5
Because I've seen the perfection I guess I'm imperturbable too. ATST, I'm also fascinated by lots of relative issues such as financial policies, social policies, financial/economic education, how to improve peoples' lives, how to reduce inequality, what can be done to slow down global warming, how to build more energy-efficient homes, how most effectively to sequester carbon, etc. etc. etc. All of that is included in the perfection. It most definitely IS included in the perfection, however, also included is the seeing that nothing in the story actually causes anything else in the story....that despite appearance, anything and everything remains possible and it not actually dependent upon a particular appearance preceding that.....that actually, the entire unfolding is a singular, unified movement, thus, I don't understand how one who has seen that can get into the whole "doing things to slow down global warming, action plan" or "science says this", beyond a certain depth.
That said, I do have to add that it can often be deceiving just how 'deep' one has gone into a particular story, or how intensely that story has captured his attention just by looking on.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 29, 2019 13:23:55 GMT -5
Because I've seen the perfection I guess I'm imperturbable too. ATST, I'm also fascinated by lots of relative issues such as financial policies, social policies, financial/economic education, how to improve peoples' lives, how to reduce inequality, what can be done to slow down global warming, how to build more energy-efficient homes, how most effectively to sequester carbon, etc. etc. etc. All of that is included in the perfection. It most definitely IS included in the perfection, however, also included is the seeing that nothing in the story actually causes anything else in the story....that despite appearance, anything and everything remains possible and it not actually dependent upon a particular appearance preceding that.....that actually, the entire unfolding is a singular, unified movement, thus, I don't understand how one who has seen that can get into the whole "doing things to slow down global warming, action plan" or "science says this", beyond a certain depth.
My interests, whatever they are, ARE the singular unified movement, and your enjoyment of arguing is also that singular unified movement. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 15:54:04 GMT -5
Because I've seen the perfection I guess I'm imperturbable too. ATST, I'm also fascinated by lots of relative issues such as financial policies, social policies, financial/economic education, how to improve peoples' lives, how to reduce inequality, what can be done to slow down global warming, how to build more energy-efficient homes, how most effectively to sequester carbon, etc. etc. etc. All of that is included in the perfection. It most definitely IS included in the perfection, however, also included is the seeing that nothing in the story actually causes anything else in the story....that despite appearance, anything and everything remains possible and it not actually dependent upon a particular appearance preceding that.....that actually, the entire unfolding is a singular, unified movement, thus, I don't understand how one who has seen that can get into the whole "doing things to slow down global warming, action plan" or "science says this", beyond a certain depth.
That said, I do have to add that it can often be deceiving just how 'deep' one has gone into a particular story, or how intensely that story has captured his attention just by looking on.
I was playing and introducing folks to apocalyptic sixties music. Question: In trying to persuade folks that cause and effect aren't real, aren't you defeating your own argument? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 0:07:44 GMT -5
It most definitely IS included in the perfection, however, also included is the seeing that nothing in the story actually causes anything else in the story....that despite appearance, anything and everything remains possible and it not actually dependent upon a particular appearance preceding that.....that actually, the entire unfolding is a singular, unified movement, thus, I don't understand how one who has seen that can get into the whole "doing things to slow down global warming, action plan" or "science says this", beyond a certain depth.
My interests, whatever they are, ARE the singular unified movement, and your enjoyment of arguing is also that singular unified movement. Interests though, DO to some degree, reflect what has been realized. That is because mind is informed. For example, I don't understand how a deeply intense interest in changing the world can co-exist alongside the realization that the world arises right here, right now, within/to that which are, and has no independent existence of it's own.
And fwiw, my interest is in conversing about/pointing to what is true in the face of an incredibly compelling dream/story that often obscures that. Indeed, I don't shy away from argument in these conversations if it arises but it's wrong to suggest that it's the argument itself that I'm after.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 0:18:49 GMT -5
It most definitely IS included in the perfection, however, also included is the seeing that nothing in the story actually causes anything else in the story....that despite appearance, anything and everything remains possible and it not actually dependent upon a particular appearance preceding that.....that actually, the entire unfolding is a singular, unified movement, thus, I don't understand how one who has seen that can get into the whole "doing things to slow down global warming, action plan" or "science says this", beyond a certain depth.
That said, I do have to add that it can often be deceiving just how 'deep' one has gone into a particular story, or how intensely that story has captured his attention just by looking on.
Question: In trying to persuade folks that cause and effect aren't real, aren't you defeating your own argument? Right. In my case, for the purpose of seeing if you might get lucky and I'd 'crack.'
Regarding your question: I'm not really 'trying' to persuade anyone, nor accomplish anything here....I'm talking about what its true. I'm under no delusion that someone is going to wake up 'because of' reading my words.
All sorts of behaviors happens in a given day that you could point to to say they are contradicting the assertion of no cause/effect.
Cause/effect appears in the story. The seeing that that is just an appearance, just part and parcel of the unfolding story, is transcendent of that.
Truth is, I can say that a thousand times and unless one actually sees beyond the story, he will not see it. Even if one were 'persuaded,' that would only be a conceptual grasp and not an actual realization of no cause/effect.
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