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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:36:23 GMT -5
It's problematic we search answer because we believe in cause and effect. Searching continue to happen until we notice the illusion of that I don't think I'm searching anymore. QM is more like a hobby for me. It's fun, like a giant puzzle. Everyone believes in cause and effect. You wouldn't post here otherwise. There would be no forum. Yet there is and you post. The truth has nothing to do with beliefs, however. I accept the logic of this world and operate accordingly. I go home by believing that my house is located there. But I am saying when someone believes in cause and effort, we start searching the solution what causes this problem in my life. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:42:51 GMT -5
Sure it is. It's an integral facet of the unfolding story.
I totally get how it may seem as though a sort of 'cognitive dissonance' is happening for the one who says he sees cause/effect is just an illusion, yet there he is, typing away in full expectation that his keystrokes are going to show up on the screen.
The best way I can explain is that the seeing that it's illusive is inextricably tied to the seeing that it's all an appearance arising in consciousness.....one singular unified movement. Nothing is separate, nothing exists/appears independent of anything else.
This thing, happening before that, doing this and then that happening, doing this and expecting that to happen, all of that continues to arise in experience, but the transcendent view reveals that the true cause/catalyst to anything that happens/appears, lies fundamental, 'beyond' experience.
Thus, it's hard to get too tied into causal story-lines. For example; This genetic medical issue in my family...I take the 'facts' with a grain of salt....I might go along with a suggested treatment if there is resonance in the moment it presents, but I see far too clearly that anything is possible and a positive outcome is not 'dependent' upon adhering to any particular prescribed treatment. If I did accept treatment, on the surface of things I may speak about it as something I am doing to slow down progression, however, the bigger/transcendent picture will loom larger....the seeing that the condition, the treatment, the resonance with that, and the slowing of progression/or not, is all inextricably One....a singular movement. No one thing/happening within that equation, actually (fundamentally) causing the other.
I've been thinking what to say all day, but I don't have words. It's got to be hard. I can't imagine how hard. I have a friend who has CF. I've learned a lot from her about courage. It's heartening to see how she faces every day with such zest. I wish you and your family the best. All I can do is pray. I really do appreciate that... Thanks. 
And hope this doesn't come off as glib, but have really come to see everyone has some kind of difficult stuff going on....... Everyone has a story and where there's a story there's going to be ups and downs. No one is getting out of this story alive and extreme, out of the ordinary conditions often make for a more interesting story. I feel particularly blessed that my kids are able to see this too. The jokes about 'cutting out early' and such flow pretty freely around here...but there are times too we cry.....none of it is intolerable by any means. There are lots of unknowns involved and lots of positive expectation.  (threw up in my mouth a lil bit there at the sappiness....so I will stop here...  )
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Post by satchitananda on Jul 31, 2019 22:47:08 GMT -5
I don't say 'the body is just an illusion,' I say the body is an appearance within consciousness. A body does actually appear....it's not one of those appearances that needs to get seen through as in snake to rope, like separation, volition, cause/effect, an objective world. Those are what I would reference as 'illusions' that get seen through in SR. The body IS an illusion, because an illusion is that which appears and disappears as an experience. That is the meaning of illusion. What do you think it means? What doesn't change is the eternal witness and it is meditation practice that reveals it, that brings it into the conscious mind. I don't see how an ongoing state of restlessness regarding the appearing world, how worrying/fretting about future outcomes regarding the world, could arise alongside abidance in Being. Worrying and fretting, an ongoing state of concern means abidance in mind. Have you considered that it might be possible to be concerned and have peace of mind without worrying and fretting? On that note, how is it Satchi that you remain concerned about climate change post destruction of mind? (I assume from your line of questioning here that you are in a state of concern regarding the environment...?) Really? You have never understood this have you? That the destruction of egoic I and its absorption into and integration (oneness) with the Self doesn't make the world disappear or the individuated personal aspect. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:47:35 GMT -5
I've been thinking what to say all day, but I don't have words. It's got to be hard. I can't imagine how hard. I have a friend who has CF. I've learned a lot from her about courage. It's heartening to see how she faces every day with such zest. I wish you and your family the best. All I can do is pray. I really do appreciate that... Thanks.
And hope this doesn't come off as glib, but have really come to see everyone has some kind of difficult stuff going on....... Everyone has a story and where there's a story there's going to be ups and downs. No one is getting out of this story alive and extreme, out of the ordinary conditions often make for a more interesting story. I feel particularly blessed that my kids are able to see this too. The jokes about 'cutting out early' and such flow pretty freely around here...but there are times too we cry.....none of it is intolerable by any means. There are lots of unknowns involved and lots of positive expectation. (threw up in my mouth a lil bit there at the sappiness....so I will stop here... )
No, not glib. It comes off as spunky and tough. I like it. Thanks. You're comforting me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 22:54:52 GMT -5
You are experiencing on a personal level, and creating on an impersonal level. I'm uncertain what it means to say the appearance of cause/effect is valuable. It has to do with reverence and faith. Reverence for this life and all that is in it and faith that we'll all discover peace. For me there's no peace in detaching from life, but there is in surrender and acceptance. If anything, in seeing it all as an appearance in consciousness, the love and reverence for it all increases rather than decreases. The kind of 'detachment' you are implying has a someone who mentally 'detatches' from stuff he finds difficult. And you are right, there is no peace in that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 23:10:46 GMT -5
The body IS an illusion, because an illusion is that which appears and disappears as an experience. That is the meaning of illusion. What do you think it means? What doesn't change is the eternal witness and it is meditation practice that reveals it, that brings it into the conscious mind. I've seen the term 'illusion' applied both ways. I prefer to reserve the term 'illusion/delusion' for those things we 'think' we see, but they are mistakes of mind due to an overriding assumption of separation. You've used the seeing the snake is actually a rope metaphor yourself. What are you referencing when you do so? Not the body. The body does appear as a body. Whereas 'person/entity' is mistakingly imagined. There is not actually a person/entity, rather, the appearing body, thoughts, personality, memories, all get 'mis-taken for' such. The person/entity is the snake you think you see, and then you 'realize' is was just a rope (a body, thoughts, etc.) You are re-defining words again.  No, but the actual 'destruction of mind' would.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 23:13:31 GMT -5
I really do appreciate that... Thanks.
And hope this doesn't come off as glib, but have really come to see everyone has some kind of difficult stuff going on....... Everyone has a story and where there's a story there's going to be ups and downs. No one is getting out of this story alive and extreme, out of the ordinary conditions often make for a more interesting story. I feel particularly blessed that my kids are able to see this too. The jokes about 'cutting out early' and such flow pretty freely around here...but there are times too we cry.....none of it is intolerable by any means. There are lots of unknowns involved and lots of positive expectation. (threw up in my mouth a lil bit there at the sappiness....so I will stop here... )
No, not glib. It comes off as spunky and tough. I like it. Thanks. You're comforting me. Good. |
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Post by satchitananda on Jul 31, 2019 23:47:38 GMT -5
I've seen the term 'illusion' applied both ways. I prefer to reserve the term 'illusion/delusion' for those things we 'think' we see, but they are mistakes of mind due to an overriding assumption of separation. What the heck are you talking about!  This is insanity. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 0:09:24 GMT -5
The body IS an illusion, because an illusion is that which appears and disappears as an experience. That is the meaning of illusion. What do you think it means? What doesn't change is the eternal witness and it is meditation practice that reveals it, that brings it into the conscious mind. So which is it? The body IS an illusion because an illusion is that which appears and disappears OR an appearance (the body) cannot be an illusion as the only defining factor of illusion is whether or not there is identification/separation and coming and going has no bearing...? Seems your definition of 'illusion' has a bad case of waffel-itis. |
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Post by satchitananda on Aug 1, 2019 0:21:38 GMT -5
The body IS an illusion, because an illusion is that which appears and disappears as an experience. That is the meaning of illusion. What do you think it means? What doesn't change is the eternal witness and it is meditation practice that reveals it, that brings it into the conscious mind. So which is it? The body IS an illusion because an illusion is that which appears and disappears OR an appearance (the body) cannot be an illusion as the only defining factor of illusion is whether or not there is identification/separation and coming and going has no bearing...? Seems your definition of 'illusion' has a bad case of waffel-itis. It depends on who I'm talking to. You haven't realized the reality of what I say in that quote. I'm having a chat with you while you sit on 2nd mountain where you have to first discriminate between unchanging and changing as if they are separate. That's what you are ready for right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 0:21:39 GMT -5
I've seen the term 'illusion' applied both ways. I prefer to reserve the term 'illusion/delusion' for those things we 'think' we see, but they are mistakes of mind due to an overriding assumption of separation. What the heck are you talking about! This is insanity. Is it really?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 0:25:16 GMT -5
So which is it? The body IS an illusion because an illusion is that which appears and disappears OR an appearance (the body) cannot be an illusion as the only defining factor of illusion is whether or not there is identification/separation and coming and going has no bearing...? Seems your definition of 'illusion' has a bad case of waffel-itis. It depends on who I'm talking to. You haven't realized the reality of what I say in that quote. I'm having a chat with you while you sit on 2nd mountain where you have to first discriminate between unchanging and changing as if they are separate. That's what you are ready for right now. The jig is up dude. |
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Post by satchitananda on Aug 1, 2019 0:27:08 GMT -5
It depends on who I'm talking to. You haven't realized the reality of what I say in that quote. I'm having a chat with you while you sit on 2nd mountain where you have to first discriminate between unchanging and changing as if they are separate. That's what you are ready for right now. The jig is up dude. It certainly is. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 11:13:04 GMT -5
So which is it? The body IS an illusion because an illusion is that which appears and disappears OR an appearance (the body) cannot be an illusion as the only defining factor of illusion is whether or not there is identification/separation and coming and going has no bearing...? Seems your definition of 'illusion' has a bad case of waffel-itis. It depends on who I'm talking to. You haven't realized the reality of what I say in that quote. I'm having a chat with you while you sit on 2nd mountain where you have to first discriminate between unchanging and changing as if they are separate. That's what you are ready for right now. Rather than just throwing out statements like that, could you please offer up the actual words I've written that have you so certain of where I sit? What is that assessment based upon? I have no problem answering actual challenges to my message. I welcome it actually. But it's pretty much impossible to respond to baseless opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 11:19:56 GMT -5
The body IS an illusion, because an illusion is that which appears and disappears as an experience. That is the meaning of illusion. What do you think it means? So do you maintain that that is the meaning of illusion (illusion is: that which appears/disappears) or does the meaning itself of illusion change depending upon who you are talking to? If it changes, why stand your ground as I put forth an alternate meaning that you yourself have previously used? Why not admit that you too use the term 'illusion' at times in the very same way that I am now using it? It seems like you are far more interested in being right than pointing to Truth. |
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(threw up in my mouth a lil bit there at the sappiness....so I will stop here... 
)
This is insanity.