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Post by zendancer on Aug 17, 2020 15:05:46 GMT -5
Here is one of my favorite Niz quotes, and I'm leaving out one line of the quote on purpose:
It is the nature of the mind to roam about. All you can do is to shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind..........................The mind will rebel in the beginning but with patience and perseverence, it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on your part.
How can we shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind? In this case, Niz is equating mind talk with the word "mind," and his practice was to shift attention away from the chattering "monkey mind" of Zen to the thought of "I am" or the sense of self existence.
By contrast, my main practice was to shift attention away from thoughts (particularly self-referential thoughts) to direct sensory perception--to what can be seen, heard, felt, etc. IOW, I was interested in looking at the world like a small child, in mental silence, without distinguishing name or form.
Some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the contemplation of one or more existential questions, some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the awareness of awareness, and there are many other similar possibilities.
Any of these activities will eventually silence the mind, and silence seems to be highly correlated with the triggering of realizations that penetrate cognitive illusions, including the illusion of the SVP.
The other day I was driving along and noticed that "universal sound" was a bit louder than usual, and the thought occurred that just listening to that sound, alone, could probably take someone all the way home. In the past (more than 20 years ago) I would sometimes verbalize an existential question that I was curious about and then shift attention to universal sound. On several occasions this activity resulted in a resolution of the question, and I suspect that it could be used to resolve any existential question. In my case, the primary activity was ATA-T (which included looking, feeling, and smelling as well as listening to whatever natural sounds were present) but listening to universal sound is also a form of ATA-T, and it might be a simpler approach for someone who resonated with the idea of focusing on only one form of sensory perception.
I think the fundamental issue is summed up in this statement by Niz, and it probably doesn't matter where attention is placed as long as it isn't upon mind talk. IMO he's also correct when he claims that after mind-talk substantially ceases, all kinds of insights begin to occur spontaneously and without any effort.
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 18, 2020 8:24:09 GMT -5
Here is one of my favorite Niz quotes, and I'm leaving out one line of the quote on purpose: It is the nature of the mind to roam about. All you can do is to shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind..........................The mind will rebel in the beginning but with patience and perseverence, it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on your part. How can we shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind? In this case, Niz is equating mind talk with the word "mind," and his practice was to shift attention away from the chattering "monkey mind" of Zen to the thought of "I am" or the sense of self existence. By contrast, my main practice was to shift attention away from thoughts (particularly self-referential thoughts) to direct sensory perception--to what can be seen, heard, felt, etc. IOW, I was interested in looking at the world like a small child, in mental silence, without distinguishing name or form. Some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the contemplation of one or more existential questions, some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the awareness of awareness, and there are many other similar possibilities. Any of these activities will eventually silence the mind, and silence seems to be highly correlated with the triggering of realizations that penetrate cognitive illusions, including the illusion of the SVP. The other day I was driving along and noticed that "universal sound" was a bit louder than usual, and the thought occurred that just listening to that sound, alone, could probably take someone all the way home. In the past (more than 20 years ago) I would sometimes verbalize an existential question that I was curious about and then shift attention to universal sound. On several occasions this activity resulted in a resolution of the question, and I suspect that it could be used to resolve any existential question. In my case, the primary activity was ATA-T (which included looking, feeling, and smelling as well as listening to whatever natural sounds were present) but listening to universal sound is also a form of ATA-T, and it might be a simpler approach for someone who resonated with the idea of focusing on only one form of sensory perception. I think the fundamental issue is summed up in this statement by Niz, and it probably doesn't matter where attention is placed as long as it isn't upon mind talk. IMO he's also correct when he claims that after mind-talk substantially ceases, all kinds of insights begin to occur spontaneously and without any effort. In terms of shifting attention away from thought to the present moment I've found that when closing the eyes, and as if looking at the inside of one's eyelids, one can directly see that there is a still, dark, boundaryless space within. Attention can rest in this dark space wherein thoughts and emotions can be observed to rise and fall. I've found that shifting attention away from thought and feeling to the boundaryless darkness itself can dissipate and dissolve away even the most painful of thought and feeling, some even permanently. |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 18, 2020 14:06:41 GMT -5
Here is one of my favorite Niz quotes, and I'm leaving out one line of the quote on purpose: It is the nature of the mind to roam about. All you can do is to shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind..........................The mind will rebel in the beginning but with patience and perseverence, it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and quite naturally, without any interference on your part. How can we shift the focus of consciousness beyond the mind? In this case, Niz is equating mind talk with the word "mind," and his practice was to shift attention away from the chattering "monkey mind" of Zen to the thought of "I am" or the sense of self existence. By contrast, my main practice was to shift attention away from thoughts (particularly self-referential thoughts) to direct sensory perception--to what can be seen, heard, felt, etc. IOW, I was interested in looking at the world like a small child, in mental silence, without distinguishing name or form. Some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the contemplation of one or more existential questions, some seekers shift attention away from thoughts to the awareness of awareness, and there are many other similar possibilities. Any of these activities will eventually silence the mind, and silence seems to be highly correlated with the triggering of realizations that penetrate cognitive illusions, including the illusion of the SVP. The other day I was driving along and noticed that "universal sound" was a bit louder than usual, and the thought occurred that just listening to that sound, alone, could probably take someone all the way home. In the past (more than 20 years ago) I would sometimes verbalize an existential question that I was curious about and then shift attention to universal sound. On several occasions this activity resulted in a resolution of the question, and I suspect that it could be used to resolve any existential question. In my case, the primary activity was ATA-T (which included looking, feeling, and smelling as well as listening to whatever natural sounds were present) but listening to universal sound is also a form of ATA-T, and it might be a simpler approach for someone who resonated with the idea of focusing on only one form of sensory perception. I think the fundamental issue is summed up in this statement by Niz, and it probably doesn't matter where attention is placed as long as it isn't upon mind talk. IMO he's also correct when he claims that after mind-talk substantially ceases, all kinds of insights begin to occur spontaneously and without any effort. In terms of shifting attention away from thought to the present moment I've found that when closing the eyes, and as if looking at the inside of one's eyelids, one can directly see that there is a still, dark, boundaryless space within. Attention can rest in this dark space wherein thoughts and emotions can be observed to rise and fall. I've found that shifting attention away from thought and feeling to the boundaryless darkness itself can dissipate and dissolve away even the most painful of thought and feeling, some even permanently. Sure. Anything beyond the mind that deals with the actual will do the trick. Being lost in Zen's "monkey mind" is the major obstacle for most folks. One thought triggers another thought, and THIS stays entranced. It rarely hears a pointer that resonates strongly enough to change the habits of mind that keep the thought-generated illusions intact. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 18, 2020 15:46:06 GMT -5
Sure. Anything beyond the mind that deals with the actual will do the trick. Being lost in Zen's "monkey mind" is the major obstacle for most folks. One thought triggers another thought, and THIS stays entranced. It rarely hears a pointer that resonates strongly enough to change the habits of mind that keep the thought-generated illusions intact. in the heat of the afternoon not a sound |
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Post by laughter on Aug 19, 2020 7:32:44 GMT -5
Sure. Anything beyond the mind that deals with the actual will do the trick. Being lost in Zen's "monkey mind" is the major obstacle for most folks. One thought triggers another thought, and THIS stays entranced. It rarely hears a pointer that resonates strongly enough to change the habits of mind that keep the thought-generated illusions intact. in the heat of the afternoon not a sound in the cool of the water against the stones *** wrrrrsssshhh .. wrrrrrssshhhh .. wrrrrshhhh ... *** |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 20, 2020 8:40:30 GMT -5
in the heat of the afternoon not a sound in the cool of the water against the stones *** wrrrrsssshhh .. wrrrrrssshhhh .. wrrrrshhhh ... *** A nicely captured moment! |
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2020 9:26:50 GMT -5
in the cool of the water against the stones *** wrrrrsssshhh .. wrrrrrssshhhh .. wrrrrshhhh ... *** A nicely captured moment!  team effort. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 23, 2020 18:51:41 GMT -5
M: You must give yourself time to brood over these things. The old grooves must be erased
in your brain, without forming new ones. You must realize yourself as the immovable,
behind and beyond the movable, the silent witness of all that happens.
Q: Does it mean that I must give up all idea of an active life?
M: Not at all. There will be marriage, there will be children, there will be earning money to
maintain a family; all this will happen in the natural course of events, for destiny must fulfill
itself; you will go through it without resistance, facing tasks as they come, attentive and
thorough, both in small things and big. But the general attitude will be of affectionate
detachment, enormous goodwill, without expectation of return, constant giving without
asking. In marriage you are neither the husband nor the wife; you are the love between the
two. You are the clarity and kindness that makes everything orderly and happy. It may
seem vague to you, but if you think a little, you will find that the mystical is most practical,
for it makes your life creatively happy. Your consciousness is raised to a higher dimension,
from which you see everything much clearer and with greater intensity. You realize that the
person you became at birth and will cease to be at death is temporary and false. You are
not the sensual, emotional and intellectual person, gripped by desires and fears. Find out
your real being. "What am I?" is the fundamental question of all philosophy and psychology.
Go into it deeply
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 17:23:46 GMT -5
"There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realization and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka [seeker], however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity."
"It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana, they become charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organize communities, become teachers of Yoga, marry, write books - anything except keeping quiet and turning their energies within, to find the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under control."
– Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Post by inavalan on Jan 2, 2021 18:26:13 GMT -5
" There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realization and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka [seeker], however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity." "It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana, they become charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organize communities, become teachers of Yoga, marry, write books - anything except keeping quiet and turning their energies within, to find the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under control." – Nisargadatta Maharaj I think so too. Thanks for the quote. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 17:52:48 GMT -5
" There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realization and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka [seeker], however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity." "It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana, they become charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organize communities, become teachers of Yoga, marry, write books - anything except keeping quiet and turning their energies within, to find the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under control."– Nisargadatta Maharaj I think so too. Thanks for the quote. You're welcome. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 20:48:37 GMT -5
"There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realization and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka [seeker], however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity." "It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana, they become charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organize communities, become teachers of Yoga, marry, write books - anything except keeping quiet and turning their energies within, to find the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under control." – Nisargadatta Maharaj It's interesting that he said "control". That's kind of a bad word in spiritual circles - people usually think it means something egotistical. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 10:02:22 GMT -5
"There are so many who take the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for full realization and destroy even the little they gain by excess of pride. Humility and silence are essential for a sadhaka [seeker], however advanced. Only a fully ripened jnani can allow himself complete spontaneity." "It is very often so with Americans and Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana, they become charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet. They organize communities, become teachers of Yoga, marry, write books - anything except keeping quiet and turning their energies within, to find the source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art of keeping it under control." – Nisargadatta Maharaj It's interesting that he said "control". That's kind of a bad word in spiritual circles - people usually think it means something egotistical. Yeah, they do aye?.  We could say that when holy men talk of control as an art .. and we must accept that this is probably a translation of his true expression.. he is likely to mean something more in accordance with equilibrium and harmony. When we're talking about an entity that knows it's own universal heritage and that has no constant artificial experience being generated, we are in the realms of Chi or Original Life force. This will need some inner refinement and stable guidance for it to be of benefit to anyone. Personally, I'm not convinced that complete isolation is the answer, neither am I against organising communities, teaching yoga or writing books. I think Niz is saying don't channel that life force into anything external as an avoidance. What has no longevity to it will ultimately become draining. Whereas remaining whole and as fresh as today's daisy will be much more replenishing for the individual and their immediate environment. IOW.. being completely honest and being able to recognise what one's priorities are, can be a bit of a Godsend. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:05:20 GMT -5
From I Am That, ch 46.
~~~~~
That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.
~~~~~
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:09:23 GMT -5
From I Am That, ch 25
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Q: I do not like this lila (play) idea I would rather compare the world to a work-yard in which we are the builders.
M: You take it too seriously. What is wrong with play? You have a purpose only as long as you are not complete (purna); till then completeness, perfection, is the purpose. But when you are complete in yourself, fully integrated within and without, then you enjoy the universe; you do not labour at it. To the disintegrated you may seem working hard, but that is their illusion. Sportsmen seem to make tremendous efforts: yet their sole motive is to play and display.
Q: Do you mean to say that God is just having fun, that he is engaged in purposeless action?
M: God is not only true and good, he is also beautiful (satyam-shivam-sundaram). He creates beauty -- for the joy of It
Q: Well, then beauty is his purpose!
M: Why do you introduce purpose? Purpose implies movement, change, a sense of imperfection. God does not aim at beauty -- whatever he does is beautiful. Would you say that a flower is trying to be beautiful? It is beautiful by its very nature. Similarly God is perfection itself, not an effort at perfection.
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team effort.