pettifoggery

[andrew]

Love Graham Hancock, he's one of a handful of academics I can contentedly listen to.

The pole shift stuff is something I follow. The pole migration has been huge in the last 100 years, and had accelerated in the last 20. This migration connects to changes in the magnetosphere, and could explain interesting weather and climate changes, which are normally labelled as "climate change issues". The auroras that folks are seeing also relate to the movement/ weakening. I read that in other parts of the world, this is openly discussed.

TBC, I'm not saying we are due a pole shift at any moment, the insect analogy that Reefs gave is a good one. Nature had its own timing obviously.

[Reefs]

Just a few short comments on some loose ends and leftovers before I wrap this up:

1) Re: Adya SR vs. PTSD:

I think this Abe quote sums it up:

Abe: You cannot offer a thought that would cause total separation, but you can offer thoughts that are different enough in vibrational nature to hinder your natural connection with Source. We refer to that condition as resistance.

The only form of resistance, or hindrance of your connection to that which is Source, is offered by you from your physical perspective. Source is always fully available to you, and Well-Being is constantly extended to you, and often you are in the state of allowing this Well-Being, but sometimes you are not.

So, feeling at one with Source and separate from Source at the same as chatbot seems to suggest is absurd. I agree with chatbot though that in moments of intense physical pain, the feeling of connection may temporarily seem out of reach. But this as a permanent condition for 15-20 years, very odd. So I suspect there's more to this than what we are told. Adya's deodorant story actually reminds me of the Jerry Hicks spider bite story (look it up!).

2) Re: non-duality vs. doubt:

     Rose:

Wikipedia: His student John Kent described the culmination of Rose's philosophy as corresponding "most closely with the nondualism of Advaita Vedanta". But Kent also writes that rather than presenting a concept-structure or a specific practice upon which his teachings could be based Rose instead advocated personal immersion into available methods and religious styles while always applying what he called "respectful doubt." Consequently, his followers obtained an understanding of a wide number of esoteric groups and methods, which they were able to bring back and share among themselves. Rose also believed that progress on one's spiritual path was linked to one's efforts at helping others.

Now, I am not familiar with Rose, so I am not going to belabor that point any further. But if Wikipedia is correct about Rose, I stand by what I’ve said.

    Niz:

Niz: I was a simple man, but I trusted my Guru. What he told me to do, I did. He told me to concentrate on 'I am' — I did. He told me that I am beyond all perceivables and conceivables — I believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire attention and the whole of my spare time (I had to work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and earnest application, I realised my self (swarupa) within three years.

Q: You are not a learned man. You have not read much and what you read, or heard did perhaps not contradict itself. I am fairly well educated and have read a lot and I found that books and teachers contradict each other hopelessly. Hence whatever I read or hear, I take it in a state of doubt. 'It may be so, it may not be so' is my first reaction. And as my mind is unable to decide what is true and what is not, I am left high and dry with my doubts. In Yoga a doubting mind is at a tremendous disadvantage.

Niz: I am glad to hear it; but my Guru too taught me to doubt — everything and absolutely. He said: 'deny existence to everything except your self.' Through desire you have created the world with its pains and pleasures.

This is basically what I've told Robert already. The first quote refers to absolute knowledge and here Niz recommends trust and faith, not doubt. The second quote is about relative knowledge, and here Niz recommends the rational approach, doubt. And he's actually talking about neti-neti there.

    Ramana:

RM: There is no use removing doubts. If we clear one doubt, another arises, and there will be no end of doubts. All doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Seek for the source of the doubter, and you find he is really nonexistent. Doubter ceasing, doubts will cease.

That’s exactly what I've told Robert already. Couldn't get any clearer. Doubt is not the way to go.

3) Re: A-H being a dangerous, substandard teaching:

This is from Niz:

Niz: There is no separation, we are not separate selves. There is only one Self, the Supreme Reality, in which the personal and the impersonal are one.

And this is from A-H:

Abe: You and that which you call Source are the same. You cannot be separated from Source. Source is never separated from you. When we think of you, we think of Source. When we think of Source, we think of you.

Same same, but different lingo.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2024 7:14:20 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jun 9, 2024 21:42:36 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Then Rose basically disqualified himself from knowing the absolute truth. Saying that doubt is sacred is like saying the intellect is sacred.

On first read, just a couple of minutes ago, I don't get this at all. It seems a purpose of doubt is to _negate the intellect.

The other user is afraid of the moderator, so he fled, but I can clarify what Rose meant. If you want to know more it's best to talk to his students around the TAT foundation. He had a profound effect on many on many of them. Some are listed on Shawn's site. Shawn himself could be a good person to ask about this "doubt sensation" or about Rose, if you were interested. This was an esoteric teaching and easily misunderstood, so Wikipedia is not going to help much and leads to a straw man debate.

The "doubt" was more about putting the false self on shaky groud. The ego fortifies and defends itself with its opinions, ideas, experiences, and repetitive thinking patterns. Those could be from science, or religion, or many other things (including a New Age channeler). Rose had a method for confronting these psychological fortifications and triggering openings in people. That method cannot be explained or taught with quick words here in this environment. Much of so-called 'spirituality' goes in the opposite direction and becomes popular because it offers support and comfort for this false self.

Ramana's self-inquiry (which Rose respected), will also do something similar to what Rose was pointing to with the "doubt". It may not seem like it at the level of words, but if you actually do it, you eventually see this. "Enter the cloud the Unknowing." Ramana also talked about the trust and surrender path, different from self-inquiry, for a different personality type. In this trust-and-surrender case, these ideas are less applicable.

I'm not sticking around either, but I wanted to add that.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2024 9:55:06 GMT -5 Reefs said:

3) Re: A-H being a dangerous, substandard teaching:

This is from Niz:

Niz: There is no separation, we are not separate selves. There is only one Self, the Supreme Reality, in which the personal and the impersonal are one.

And this is from A-H:

Abe: You and that which you call Source are the same. You cannot be separated from Source. Source is never separated from you. When we think of you, we think of Source. When we think of Source, we think of you.

Same same, but different lingo.

Not relevant. All kinds of people, from sages to nut-jobs, sometimes echo this old and simple idea. And no one took issue with it. The question was why believe the other baggage. 

[andrew]

I once tried to talk about 'doubt'. It didnt go down well, I recall Topology particularly disagreeing with me, which seems odd now, as he was a Rose fan. To be fair, I articulated myself more confrontationally at that time, more need to be right. Sometimes I argued things I believed to be correct, but would argue them with a sense of almost 'wanting' to trigger people.

Let's see if I can do it differently.

I see a difference between a) the experience of doubt, which is not a pleasant experience, and can be central to suffering. And b) doubt as a state of mind. When BK says, "can you absolutely know that to be true?"...that's a doubt state of mind, and a good one. In a sense, a doubt state of mind is an open mind. Not in the conventional sense of 'I am open minded on this subject', but in the sense that mind won't attach to stories as true.

And in that doubt state of mind, there is a doorway to faith/trust/knowing of something deeper.

[sharon]

Jun 10, 2024 2:25:37 GMT -5 Reefs said:

IOW, nothing to see here. 

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion too quickly. Graham is constantly in conflict with the established narrative of human history and wikipedia deliberately denigrate him because their authors are told to by the Archaeology community.

[andrew]

Jun 10, 2024 12:22:04 GMT -5 Deleted said:

Jun 10, 2024 9:55:06 GMT -5 Reefs said:

3) Re: A-H being a dangerous, substandard teaching:

This is from Niz:

And this is from A-H:

Same same, but different lingo.

Not relevant. All kinds of people, from sages to nut-jobs, sometimes echo this old and simple idea. And no one took issue with it. The question was why believe the other baggage. 

By baggage, do mean the LOA stuff? Well, it's a question of whether it's useful as a tool. I'd say yes, but it's a qualified yes. I mean, I'd say it's been useful for me. I feel learning/applying that stuff has been aligned to my spiritual path/growth.

[Reefs]

Jun 10, 2024 11:43:12 GMT -5 Deleted said:

Jun 10, 2024 7:14:20 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

On first read, just a couple of minutes ago, I don't get this at all. It seems a purpose of doubt is to _negate the intellect.

The other user is afraid of the moderator, so he fled, but I can clarify what Rose meant. If you want to know more it's best to talk to his students around the TAT foundation. He had a profound effect on many on many of them. Some are listed on Shawn's site. Shawn himself could be a good person to ask about this "doubt sensation" or about Rose, if you were interested. This was an esoteric teaching and easily misunderstood, so Wikipedia is not going to help much and leads to a straw man debate.

The "doubt" was more about putting the false self on shaky groud. The ego fortifies and defends itself with its opinions, ideas, experiences, and repetitive thinking patterns. Those could be from science, or religion, or many other things (including a New Age channeler). Rose had a method for confronting these psychological fortifications and triggering openings in people. That method cannot be explained or taught with quick words here in this environment. Much of so-called 'spirituality' goes in the opposite direction and becomes popular because it offers support and comfort for this false self.

Ramana's self-inquiry (which Rose respected), will also do something similar to what Rose was pointing to with the "doubt". It may not seem like it at the level of words, but if you actually do it, you eventually see this. "Enter the cloud the Unknowing." Ramana also talked about the trust and surrender path, different from self-inquiry, for a different personality type. In this trust-and-surrender case, these ideas are less applicable.

I'm not sticking around either, but I wanted to add that.

Jun 10, 2024 12:22:04 GMT -5 Deleted said:

Jun 10, 2024 9:55:06 GMT -5 Reefs said:

3) Re: A-H being a dangerous, substandard teaching:

This is from Niz:

And this is from A-H:

Same same, but different lingo.

Not relevant. All kinds of people, from sages to nut-jobs, sometimes echo this old and simple idea. And no one took issue with it. The question was why believe the other baggage. 

Robert, 

you are trying too hard. We know it's you. Your fingerprints are all over it again. Exact same style, exact same trigger topic, exact same crusade, exact same member as target. Please, save yourself the effort of registering new emails, new forum accounts and donning new personas with new stories. You are not really good at this. You've burnt 2 accounts in 1 day already! Now, that's still a far cry from Steve who once burnt at least 4 accounts in 1 day, but think about the energy that you put into this childish nonsense just to avenge your bruised ego. Is that really worth it? And who's going to believe what you teach anyway when you do the exact opposite of what you preach and each visit here ends with a meltdown? If you want to be taken seriously and be part of this exclusive community, you have to act accordingly.

Take it easy. You can stay here. But you have to stop the trolling.

R

[Reefs]

Jun 10, 2024 12:42:38 GMT -5 sharon said:

Jun 10, 2024 2:25:37 GMT -5 Reefs said:

IOW, nothing to see here. 

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion too quickly. Graham is constantly in conflict with the established narrative of human history and wikipedia deliberately denigrate him because their authors are told to by the Archaeology community.

Tongue in cheek comment, by yours truly (we all know how wikipedia works, right?)...

[sharon]

Jun 10, 2024 12:51:06 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 10, 2024 12:42:38 GMT -5 sharon said:

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion too quickly. Graham is constantly in conflict with the established narrative of human history and wikipedia deliberately denigrate him because their authors are told to by the Archaeology community.

Tongue in cheek comment, by yours truly (we all know how wikipedia works, right?)...

Cool cool..   

He has talked with Joe Rogan about this issue with wikipedia..

[tenka]

Jun 10, 2024 12:49:27 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 10, 2024 11:43:12 GMT -5 Deleted said:

The other user is afraid of the moderator, so he fled, but I can clarify what Rose meant. If you want to know more it's best to talk to his students around the TAT foundation. He had a profound effect on many on many of them. Some are listed on Shawn's site. Shawn himself could be a good person to ask about this "doubt sensation" or about Rose, if you were interested. This was an esoteric teaching and easily misunderstood, so Wikipedia is not going to help much and leads to a straw man debate.

The "doubt" was more about putting the false self on shaky groud. The ego fortifies and defends itself with its opinions, ideas, experiences, and repetitive thinking patterns. Those could be from science, or religion, or many other things (including a New Age channeler). Rose had a method for confronting these psychological fortifications and triggering openings in people. That method cannot be explained or taught with quick words here in this environment. Much of so-called 'spirituality' goes in the opposite direction and becomes popular because it offers support and comfort for this false self.

Ramana's self-inquiry (which Rose respected), will also do something similar to what Rose was pointing to with the "doubt". It may not seem like it at the level of words, but if you actually do it, you eventually see this. "Enter the cloud the Unknowing." Ramana also talked about the trust and surrender path, different from self-inquiry, for a different personality type. In this trust-and-surrender case, these ideas are less applicable.

I'm not sticking around either, but I wanted to add that.

Jun 10, 2024 12:22:04 GMT -5 Deleted said:

Not relevant. All kinds of people, from sages to nut-jobs, sometimes echo this old and simple idea. And no one took issue with it. The question was why believe the other baggage. 

Robert, 

you are trying too hard. We know it's you. Your fingerprints are all over it again. Exact same style, exact same trigger topic, exact same crusade, exact same member as target. Please, save yourself the effort of registering new emails, new forum accounts and donning new personas with new stories. You are not really good at this. You've burnt 2 accounts in 1 day already! Now, that's still a far cry from Steve who once burnt at least 4 accounts in 1 day, but think about the energy that you put into this childish nonsense just to avenge your bruised ego. Is that really worth it? And who's going to believe what you teach anyway when you do the exact opposite of what you preach and each visit here ends with a meltdown? If you want to be taken seriously and be part of this exclusive community, you have to act accordingly.

Take it easy. You can stay here. But you have to stop the trolling.

R

I have been reading a long a bit to these exchanges here and in your defence I think you handled yourself well although in times past I think the Ban trigger finger has been a a bit quick off the mark, but in the grand scheme of things as a once banned member myself unjustly so in my eyes I think letting things go is a pretty good energy to be in.

While I am speaking my mind, I think you have entertained a lot of stuff that I was once ridiculed about when I first came to the forums which is another good thing in my eyes. I don't give a monkeys ar$e if you are male or female for the record or wanting to hide an identity of sorts.

Perhaps it's a little ironic for non dualers who believe in dissolving one's identity to be so fcukin hung up on what one wants to refer themselves to 

I mean you can't make this up can you.

I quite liked the quotes you posted about the cells of the body from Abe, it's how I see them and that's why I have a relationship with them as not being Separate from what I am or Source.

All this appearance stuff of the mind-body that reflects the non duality neti neti approach is way off the mark as I see it.

[Reefs]

Jun 10, 2024 13:27:55 GMT -5 tenka said:

Jun 10, 2024 12:49:27 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Robert, 

you are trying too hard. We know it's you. Your fingerprints are all over it again. Exact same style, exact same trigger topic, exact same crusade, exact same member as target. Please, save yourself the effort of registering new emails, new forum accounts and donning new personas with new stories. You are not really good at this. You've burnt 2 accounts in 1 day already! Now, that's still a far cry from Steve who once burnt at least 4 accounts in 1 day, but think about the energy that you put into this childish nonsense just to avenge your bruised ego. Is that really worth it? And who's going to believe what you teach anyway when you do the exact opposite of what you preach and each visit here ends with a meltdown? If you want to be taken seriously and be part of this exclusive community, you have to act accordingly.

Take it easy. You can stay here. But you have to stop the trolling.

R

I have been reading a long a bit to these exchanges here and in your defence I think you handled yourself well although in times past I think the Ban trigger finger has been a a bit quick off the mark, but in the grand scheme of things as a once banned member myself unjustly so in my eyes I think letting things go is a pretty good energy to be in.

While I am speaking my mind, I think you have entertained a lot of stuff that I was once ridiculed about when I first came to the forums which is another good thing in my eyes. I don't give a monkeys ar$e if you are male or female for the record or wanting to hide an identity of sorts.

Perhaps it's a little ironic for non dualers who believe in dissolving one's identity to be so fcukin hung up on what one wants to refer themselves to 

I mean you can't make this up can you.

I quite liked the quotes you posted about the cells of the body from Abe, it's how I see them and that's why I have a relationship with them as not being Separate from what I am or Source.

All this appearance stuff of the mind-body that reflects the non duality neti neti approach is way off the mark as I see it.

Hey, thanks. Nice.

Well, when I took over here it was really crazy town, wild wild west. 

When you got banned you went head to head with Enigma. You both got banned. And good to see that you've moved on. Enigma apparently never got over getting banned. Figgles neither. Gopal, it seems, came to terms with it at some point.

Nowadays its a different situation. It's rare when someone is acting up. But in the beginning, it used to be several people at the same time, who also worked as a team.

What you always have to keep in mind is that you are dealing with real people, human beings behind these anonymous accounts. And these people all have offline lives. And sometimes they have to deal with a lot of troublesome stuff in their offline lives, that you usually don't know about unless they share it on the forum or via pm. And they sometimes bring that to the forum in the form of anger or aggression that seems to come out of nowhere. So when you see people acting up here and it doesn't make sense or they go way overboard, you have to be open to the possibility that there's something in their offline life bugging them that also affects their attitude and behavior here.

What I like about the Abe take on health is that it is so simple (at least in theory). In essence, you don't have to actually know anything about how your body or cells work, you only have to know that feeling good is conducive to good health and will lead naturally to a healthy life style and feeling bad is not and lead to an unhealthy life style. Now, the challenge here of course is that the consensus trance disagrees with this. And so all day everyday you are told, taught, shown and asked to do the exact opposite, and mostly by 'well-meaning' people. So while simple and seemingly easy in theory, in practice it often is not.

The way I see it, the neti-neti thing as a standalone is a recipe for brown bearing and spiritual bypassing. Neti-neti is half circle only anyway. The next step has to be "there is only what you are". Or else you are off the mark, as you say.

[andrew]

Jun 10, 2024 12:49:27 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 10, 2024 11:43:12 GMT -5 Deleted said:

The other user is afraid of the moderator, so he fled, but I can clarify what Rose meant. If you want to know more it's best to talk to his students around the TAT foundation. He had a profound effect on many on many of them. Some are listed on Shawn's site. Shawn himself could be a good person to ask about this "doubt sensation" or about Rose, if you were interested. This was an esoteric teaching and easily misunderstood, so Wikipedia is not going to help much and leads to a straw man debate.

The "doubt" was more about putting the false self on shaky groud. The ego fortifies and defends itself with its opinions, ideas, experiences, and repetitive thinking patterns. Those could be from science, or religion, or many other things (including a New Age channeler). Rose had a method for confronting these psychological fortifications and triggering openings in people. That method cannot be explained or taught with quick words here in this environment. Much of so-called 'spirituality' goes in the opposite direction and becomes popular because it offers support and comfort for this false self.

Ramana's self-inquiry (which Rose respected), will also do something similar to what Rose was pointing to with the "doubt". It may not seem like it at the level of words, but if you actually do it, you eventually see this. "Enter the cloud the Unknowing." Ramana also talked about the trust and surrender path, different from self-inquiry, for a different personality type. In this trust-and-surrender case, these ideas are less applicable.

I'm not sticking around either, but I wanted to add that.

Jun 10, 2024 12:22:04 GMT -5 Deleted said:

Not relevant. All kinds of people, from sages to nut-jobs, sometimes echo this old and simple idea. And no one took issue with it. The question was why believe the other baggage. 

Robert, 

you are trying too hard. We know it's you. Your fingerprints are all over it again. Exact same style, exact same trigger topic, exact same crusade, exact same member as target. Please, save yourself the effort of registering new emails, new forum accounts and donning new personas with new stories. You are not really good at this. You've burnt 2 accounts in 1 day already! Now, that's still a far cry from Steve who once burnt at least 4 accounts in 1 day, but think about the energy that you put into this childish nonsense just to avenge your bruised ego. Is that really worth it? And who's going to believe what you teach anyway when you do the exact opposite of what you preach and each visit here ends with a meltdown? If you want to be taken seriously and be part of this exclusive community, you have to act accordingly.

Take it easy. You can stay here. But you have to stop the trolling.

R

Steve's like....''dammit...this again'' To be fair, his issue at the time was with how the forum was running, and many of us have had issues about 'forum running' over the years.

I'd like Robert/newcomers to stay, a variety of voices is good in my view.

As I see it, there are 2 key aspects to being part of the forum.

1) If you come here wanting a fight, it's not the forum for you. We discuss and argue here, but within limit. We have tried a free for all approach and I guess we don't want to go back to it (if I want to fight now, I go to twitter lol).

2) For as long as you are moderator (and I don't see anyone else wanting to do it), it's basically your forum to put your stamp on, and that's fine. Although I feel you have changed over the years, you've always been confident in your views, sometimes perhaps a bit overbearing, and this can rub people the wrong way. And I say this as someone that can be overbearing too. I've come to appreciate who you are (as a 'person'), as I appreciate all the personalities here. But for as long as this if your forum to run, we have to accept your personality stamp, and to an extent that means accepting the strength of your views.

And that perhaps also means accepting that all forums are flawed. There's no perfect forum. In a way, a forum...by its nature... engenders human flaw to some extent. Maybe we can be forgiving of that. I think I wanted a perfect forum at one point. I think Steve did too all those years ago. But it's really okay for the forum not to be perfect.

But it's not for everyone. Faye could be here, but is self-aware and honest enough to know that it's not a good fit for her here. But there are others here that don't necessarily line up altogether with your views, and do disagree with you at times, and for them, it still basically works because they are here mainly to shoot the breeze with generally like-minded people. Maybe it's more the spiritual connection with others that matters for these folks.

[stardustpilgrim]

Jun 9, 2024 7:07:53 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 9, 2024 4:05:34 GMT -5 laughter said:

There is a conceit in the current medical establishment when it comes to the mind/body split, and the bias towards the primacy of focus on the physical mechanisms of the individuated body. Assuming no major cultural discontinuity (like, say, that happened in Roman literature, mathematics and engineering after the fall),it's easy to imagine some future, progressed understanding of the effect of the mind on the body that will make the current pharma industry seem to some future medical establishment the way that the current establishment derides the past use of leeches, laudanum, and all manner of electrical quackaery.

So it seems to me that it's really just this simple: intellect has no understanding of what it is ignorant of. True cultural humility (as opposed to the existential, requiring pointing) acknowledges this without demonizing some of the amazing accomplishments achieved via intellect. The flip-side to that is to layer over the ignorance with an arrogant attachment to what people THINK they know.

Scientism is very strong in Western culture. Even on a spiritual forum like this one, which surprises me every time.

SDP mentioned Kali Yuga, he thinks we are in Kali Yuga. I don't think so. Kali Yuga is not a technological age. We are certainly in Dwapara Yuga already, which is the technological age. The Yuga theory is linked to astronomy, it's the cyclical view of history and the rise and fall of civilizations. One full cycle of the rise and fall of civilizations is about 24,000 years. This, btw, is a very important concept in traditional astrology (sidereal astrology) where the starting point of the zodiac has to be constantly recalibrated, as opposed to modern astrology (tropical astrology) which uses the equinoxes as reference points.

 Here's from Yukteswar:

We learn from Oriental astronomy that moons revolve around their planets, and planets turning on their axes revolve with their moons round the sun; and the sun, with its planets and their moons, takes some star for its dual and revolves round it in about 24,000 years of our earth—a celestial phenomenon which causes the backward movement of the equinoctial points around the zodiac. The sun also has another motion by which it revolves round a grand center called Vishnunabhi, which is the seat of the creative power, Brahma, the universal magnetism. Brahma regulates dharma, the mental virtue of the internal world.

When the sun in its revolution round its dual comes to the place nearest to this grand centre, the seat of Brahma (an event which takes place when the Autumnal Equinox comes to the first point of Aries), dharma, the mental virtue, becomes so much developed that man can easily comprehend all, even the mysteries of Spirit.

The Autumnal Equinox will be falling, at the beginning of the twentieth century, among the fixed stars of the Virgo constellation, and in the early part of the Ascending Dwapara Yuga

From 11,501 b.c., when the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Aries, the sun began to move away from the point of its orbit nearest to the grand centre toward the point farthest from it, and accordingly the intellectual power of man began to diminish. During the 4800 years which the sun took to pass through one of the Satya Couples or 4/20th part of its orbit, the intellect of man lost altogether the power of grasping spiritual knowledge. During the 3600 years following, which the sun took to pass through the Descending Treta Yuga, the intellect gradually lost all power of grasping the knowledge of divine magnetism. During the 2400 years next following, while the sun passed through the Descending Dwapara Yuga, the human intellect lost its power of grasping the knowledge of electricities and their attributes. In 1200 more years the sun passed through the Descending Kali Yuga and reached the point in its orbit which is farthest from the grand centre; the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Libra. The intellectual power of man was so much diminished that it could no longer comprehend anything beyond the gross material of creation. The period around a.d. 500 was thus the darkest part of Kali Yuga and of the whole cycle of 24,000 years. History indeed bears out the accuracy of these ancient calculations of the Indian rishis, and records the widespread ignorance and suffering in all nations at that period.

From a.d. 499 onward, the sun began to advance toward the grand centre, and the intellect of man started gradually to develop. During the 1100 years of the Ascending Kali Yuga, which brings us to a.d. 1599, the human intellect was so dense that it could not comprehend the electricities, Sukshmabhuta, the fine matters of creation. In the political world also, generally speaking, there was no peace in any kingdom.

Subsequent to this period, when the 100-year transitional sandhi of Kali Yuga set in, to effect a union with the following Dwapara Yuga, men began to notice the existence of fine matters, panchatanmatra or the attributes of electricities; and political peace began to be established.

About a.d. 1600, William Gilbert discovered magnetic forces and observed the presence of electricity in all material substances. In 1609 Kepler discovered important laws of astronomy, and Galileo produced a telescope. In 1621 Drebbel of Holland invented the microscope. About 1670 Newton discovered the law of gravitation. In 1700 Thomas Savery made use of a steam engine in raising water. Twenty years later Stephen Gray discovered the action of electricity on the human body.

In the political world, people began to have respect for themselves, and civilization advanced in many ways. England united with Scotland and became a powerful kingdom. Napoleon Bonaparte introduced his new legal code into southern Europe. America won its independence, and many parts of Europe were peaceful.

With the advance of science, the world began to be covered with railways and telegraphic wires. By the help of steam engines, electric machines, and many other instruments, fine matters were brought into practical use, although their nature was not clearly understood. In 1899, on completion of the period of 200 years of Dwapara Sandhi, the time of mutation, the true Dwapara Yuga of 2000 years will commence and will give to mankind in general a thorough understanding of the electricities and their attributes.

Such is the great influence of Time which governs the universe. No man can overcome this influence except him who, blessed with pure love, the heavenly gift of nature, becomes divine; being baptized in the sacred stream Pranava (the holy Aum vibration), he comprehends the Kingdom of God.

Swami Sri Yukteswar - The Holy Science, Introduction

So, basically this is about the consensus trance, the matrix and its up and down cycles. Also keep in mind that Yukteswar wrote this in the 1890s, so he wrote it from that perspective.

Now, I've' written recently about health and electricity already. So we are certainly moving in the direction Yukteswar indicated. It's just that science, with its basic tenets, is extremely slow to catch up.

Also, the beauty of the cyclical model is that it can explain things like the pyramids or the Baghdad battery. The linear model of history cannot explain this. 

So there are a lot of alternative perspectives on man, civilization and history that are all readily available to those with an open mind. Common consensus trance mind is likely going to reject this as preposterous and unscientific or pseudo-science, of course. And by doing so, they close the door to alternative solutions to health and general well-being. 

But as BK and I keep saying: suffering is a choice. To each their own. As Yukteswar indicated, the blessings that become normal in the golden age and are seen as supernatural in the dark age are actually always available to each individual, right here right now. But one has to break away from the consensus trance to realize that. And that's not easy. Just think of Tesla or Schauberger.

I did some exploring yesterday and today. This book seems to cover a lot of territory, I ordered it today. (I had never heard of Schauberger, checked him out too. I don't think I have time to spend on him, but I accidentally found a book about the importance of staying hydrated). I do have to admit I'm disappointed BDM did not research the view of Islam on the 'End Times'. He'll need to research the Mahdi and include him in a future edition.

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I am pleased to announce that my book "Yuga Shift: The End of the Kali Yuga & The Impending Planetary Transformation" has been released on December 15, 2023. Bibhu Dev Misra


As some of you are aware, more than a decade ago, in the year 2012, I had written an article on the Yuga Cycle and the impending end of the Kali Yuga in 2025. Since then, I have done a great deal of additional research on this very important topic that concerns all of us, and come across many pieces of evidence from diverse disciplines that corroborates my initial study and sheds much-needed light on many aspects of this grand cycle of time that regulates human civilization and human consciousness.

Almost every ancient culture believed that human civilization and consciousness has progressively declined since an erstwhile Golden Age or Satya Yuga till the current age of greed and lies, discord and strife, called the Iron Age or Kali Yuga. Unfortunately, during our long passage through the darkness of the Kali Yuga, the original formulation of the Yuga Cycle was lost.

In this extensively researched book, Bibhu Dev Misra has delineated the common threads that run through the Yuga Cycle doctrines of multiple ancient cultures, taking the aid of scientific discoveries from various disciplines. His reconstruction of the original Yuga Cycle framework indicates that the end of the Kali Yuga is just around the corner - in 2025!

Within a span of just 15 years, by the year 2040, the Kali Yuga civilization is likely to collapse due to a combination of global wars, environmental catastrophes and comet impacts. We are living in the end-times that the ancient prophecies had warned us about. The survivors of the impending cataclysms will inherit a renewed earth, bathed in the divine light of the Central Sun.

There is compelling evidence from many sources that the Yuga Cycle is a valid scientific doctrine, and is perfectly aligned with the earth’s precession cycle. It explains the periodic collapse and re-emergence of civilizations across the world every 3000-odd years, and the progressive decline in our physical size and cranial volume over the past 11,700 years of the descending Yuga Cycle.

But why does our size and consciousness fluctuate in a sinusoidal manner over the course of the Yuga Cycle? What are the triggers for the cataclysmic obliteration of civilization during the periods of transition between the Yuga? What is the significance of the end-time prophecies which tell of a Savior or Avatar returning at the end of the Kali Yuga? How can we navigate through the upheavals and chaos of the Yuga-ending period?

[justlikeyou]

Jun 10, 2024 9:55:06 GMT -5 Reefs said:

So, feeling at one with Source and separate from Source at the same as chatbot seems to suggest is absurd.

Seems to me that in the case of Adya Source must have wanted to consciously experience living in paradox for a spell.