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Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2024 23:14:12 GMT -5
If there is PTSD, it's due to some condition that I heard about 15 years ago and caused Adya a lot of physical pain. A friend of mine is a good friend of Adya's and at one time he was doing some form of reiki on Adya in an effort to alleviate some of the pain that Adya was dealing with. I can't remember the name of the condition that was mentioned. From Reefs link: he also alludes to needing to step away from teaching due to suffering from intense PTSD caused by episodes of debilitating pain earlier in his career. While he does not explicitly say what caused this, I happen to know, not just because I’m dope, but because I’ve binged all his shit, including random interviews. Adya had a debilitating and rare condition in his bladder that brought him mind-splitting pain. Fifteen years later, after almost two decades of brutal pain, he discovered the cause of this condition—an allergic reaction to the aluminum in his deodorant. With that deodorant in the dustbin, his condition was immediately resolved. Pretty neat. Yet the intense trauma from those years stayed with him and lingered as PTSD.Imagine the headlines in the non-dual tabloids:
"Famous Zen/Advaita Guru Knocked Out of Enlightened State by Toxic Deodorant, Now Treated for PTSD With Anti-depressants!"
Now, doesn't PTSD presuppose a total identification with the body-mind?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2024 23:17:04 GMT -5
From Reefs link: he also alludes to needing to step away from teaching due to suffering from intense PTSD caused by episodes of debilitating pain earlier in his career. While he does not explicitly say what caused this, I happen to know, not just because I’m dope, but because I’ve binged all his shit, including random interviews. Adya had a debilitating and rare condition in his bladder that brought him mind-splitting pain. Fifteen years later, after almost two decades of brutal pain, he discovered the cause of this condition—an allergic reaction to the aluminum in his deodorant. With that deodorant in the dustbin, his condition was immediately resolved. Pretty neat. Yet the intense trauma from those years stayed with him and lingered as PTSD. Thanks. I seemed to remember that it had something to do with either his kidneys or urinary system, and after you mentioned bladder pain, I remembered that. However, I never knew that it got resolved or was caused by an allergic reaction. Interestingly, I read his public announcement when it was published and also remember the deodorant thing but not the PTSD part. And PTSD and TPTPAU? I don't know. What's your take on this? |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2024 23:31:34 GMT -5
You are trying too hard to prove your point. And I think it's time you give it a rest. It has become an obsession. And it is not doing your or the forum any good. Do you remember Arisha? You remind me of her.
You also seem to be unable to distinguish between fact (what's actually been written and what is in the archives) and fiction (your favorite pet theory in your own mind). You've become an expert giraffe herder.
Now, let me address some of your giraffes:
First, I regularly recommend books and teachings of other spiritual teachers.
Secondly, I've specifically made it clear that RM's or Niz' shortcomings in the physical human context do not devalue their realization status at all. Thirdly, there are no levels of SR. And SR or what is seen or realized in the event of SR is, has been and always will be the exact same realization for everyone, no matter what epoch, culture, or personal history or personal life circumstances.
Fourthly, you have made it abundantly clear that you have no reference for CC, SR or what non-duality is pointing to. So most of what you say about other people's realization status (or lack thereof) is therefore speculation, and most of the time actually mere projection. Fifthly, can you tell me who RM's or Niz or RK's or Bodhidharma's go-to guy was?
Sixthly, I sense a strong dose of what Nietzsche called "Moralin" in everything you write. He actually called moralism a form of cowardice. Maybe something to contemplate for you.
. Niz recorded the talks and edited the book. This, I didn't say you didn't. I asked if you could recommend someone without qualification, that covered everything. This, I made it abundantly clear, by saying so, SR is not in my vocabulary. To bring up murder, rape, terrorism, war, is not moralizing. Morality depends upon culture, society, tribes, it's always subjective. Yes, I agree, it all just happens, it all happens within the Whole. There is the flow away from Source called involution. This is the outbreathing of Brahman. There is the flow which is the return to Source, this is evolution, this is the inbreathing of Brahman. It's common knowledge there are these two flows. I'm not the most familiar with the Yugas, but aren't we in a Yuga of degradation? The Kali Yuga? Symptoms of Kali Yuga There are many symptoms of Kali Yuga given in the Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic texts. What follows is a compilation of some of the prominent symptoms of the age: Genuine religion will disappear day by day. People will be unclean, untruthful, merciless, short-lived, and of weak memory. Wealth alone will be the indicator of a person’s social status. Those with power and influence will escape justice and flout the law. In place of marriage, men and women will live together simply due to romantic attraction The worth of a man or woman will be judged according to their expertise in sex. Success in business will depend on deceit. Those who do not have money will be considered substandard human beings. Hypocrisy will be accepted as a virtue. Beauty will be judged simply by one’s hairstyle. People will think that eating well is the highest goal of life. People will practice religion simply to achieve fame. There will be widespread famine and excess taxes, and people will be forced to flee to forests and mountains. The maximum duration of life will be 50 years. By the end of Kali Yuga, human beings will be of a reduced size, the Vedas will be completely forgotten, and the leaders of society will be thieves. People will have no other professions than simply cheating, killing, and stealing from one another. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm just sharing my view... The Adya case is a good example for what can happen when you make someone you don't know your go-to guy. That's why Niz and RM and RK always insisted that the satguru (inner guru) is the real guru. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 8, 2024 6:43:15 GMT -5
I've got a congenital defect in my spine that led to disk slippage when I lived in Manhattan. Counter-intuitively, It completely cleared up with I started renovating a house.  (.. all them medicine peeps, QUACKS! every single one 'o 'em! ..).I think the medical term for this is "spontaneous healing" (aka "We've got no clue what just happened here...")
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 8, 2024 7:24:06 GMT -5
Thanks. I seemed to remember that it had something to do with either his kidneys or urinary system, and after you mentioned bladder pain, I remembered that. However, I never knew that it got resolved or was caused by an allergic reaction. Interestingly, I read his public announcement when it was published and also remember the deodorant thing but not the PTSD part. And PTSD and TPTPAU? I don't know. What's your take on this? As requested, here is what chatbot said about it: From a non-dual perspective, the essence of reality is seen as a unified, undivided whole, where distinctions between the personal self and the universal Self dissolve. In this view, a realized non-dual teacher who comes down with PTSD can still be considered the embodiment of the peace that surpasses all understanding, because their true nature remains unchanged by the condition of the mind or body. Here are a few points to consider: Non-Identification with the Mind and Body: Non-dual realization often involves the recognition that one's true nature is not limited to the mind or body. While the body and mind may experience conditions like PTSD, the underlying awareness or consciousness remains untouched and at peace. Paradox of Manifestation: In the non-dual framework, the relative and the absolute coexist. A realized teacher may manifest symptoms of PTSD at the relative level, while simultaneously embodying the absolute peace at the level of pure consciousness. This paradox highlights the non-dual understanding that reality encompasses both the changing and the unchanging. Compassion and Humanity: Realized beings often retain their human characteristics and may experience suffering, which can deepen their compassion and connection with others. Their realization doesn’t necessarily imply immunity from human conditions, but it does imply a different relationship with those conditions. Embracing All Experiences: Non-duality encourages embracing all experiences, pleasant or painful, as expressions of the same underlying reality. A teacher with PTSD might exemplify how even challenging experiences are held within the vast, undisturbed space of awareness. In summary, from a non-dual perspective, a realized teacher with PTSD can indeed be seen as both experiencing the condition and simultaneously embodying the peace that surpasses all understanding. This reflects the non-dual insight that the essence of being is unchanging and ever-present, regardless of the fluctuations in the mind and body. |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 8, 2024 7:44:16 GMT -5
Interestingly, I read his public announcement when it was published and also remember the deodorant thing but not the PTSD part. And PTSD and TPTPAU? I don't know. What's your take on this? As requested, here is what chatbot said about it: From a non-dual perspective, the essence of reality is seen as a unified, undivided whole, where distinctions between the personal self and the universal Self dissolve. In this view, a realized non-dual teacher who comes down with PTSD can still be considered the embodiment of the peace that surpasses all understanding, because their true nature remains unchanged by the condition of the mind or body. Here are a few points to consider: Non-Identification with the Mind and Body: Non-dual realization often involves the recognition that one's true nature is not limited to the mind or body. While the body and mind may experience conditions like PTSD, the underlying awareness or consciousness remains untouched and at peace. Paradox of Manifestation: In the non-dual framework, the relative and the absolute coexist. A realized teacher may manifest symptoms of PTSD at the relative level, while simultaneously embodying the absolute peace at the level of pure consciousness. This paradox highlights the non-dual understanding that reality encompasses both the changing and the unchanging. Compassion and Humanity: Realized beings often retain their human characteristics and may experience suffering, which can deepen their compassion and connection with others. Their realization doesn’t necessarily imply immunity from human conditions, but it does imply a different relationship with those conditions. Embracing All Experiences: Non-duality encourages embracing all experiences, pleasant or painful, as expressions of the same underlying reality. A teacher with PTSD might exemplify how even challenging experiences are held within the vast, undisturbed space of awareness. In summary, from a non-dual perspective, a realized teacher with PTSD can indeed be seen as both experiencing the condition and simultaneously embodying the peace that surpasses all understanding. This reflects the non-dual insight that the essence of being is unchanging and ever-present, regardless of the fluctuations in the mind and body. That's also my take on this. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jun 8, 2024 8:04:33 GMT -5
That sounds interesting, was it a public discussion i.e we can see it? Edit: It sometimes seems a shame that we push people away, as the longtimers here generally already know what we each think. What do you think would push people away less? No it was private. I don't think I can share it. Don't worry, you're not missing much.  Good discussions are usually small and have a life of their own. These days I prefer in-person interactions. Online has its pros and cons. My interest started in Jungian psychology and dreams, and then into meditation. So I think it's good to pay attention, become conscious of the currents beneath the surface. Ultimately most people do not want interactions that look like "discussion" on the surface, but are really competition or bullying underneath. Competition can be fun too, as long as it's conscious - ie, you know you're doing that. Outright bullying is almost always unconscious and stops when the person becomes conscious of the underlying superior/inferiority feelings ... unless they are a psychopath, then maybe they don't stop. Haha. Facing an unconscious aspect or shadow (Jung's term) can feel a bit rough or ugly, but it's all good. Whether it's Ramana's technique or the Byron Katie technique you posted - in my view those are just different styles of becoming conscious or waking up to the layers beneath the surface. I hear you. The psychopath comment is relevant. ND seems a draw to them. Aspects of it. They tend to bend it to match their predilection. Too bad you're a short timer. I'd enjoy engaging with folk who have something genuine to share. Most of those folk are gone. Take care. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 8, 2024 9:10:38 GMT -5
Interestingly, I read his public announcement when it was published and also remember the deodorant thing but not the PTSD part. And PTSD and TPTPAU? I don't know. What's your take on this? As requested, here is what chatbot said about it: From a non-dual perspective, the essence of reality is seen as a unified, undivided whole, where distinctions between the personal self and the universal Self dissolve. In this view, a realized non-dual teacher who comes down with PTSD can still be considered the embodiment of the peace that surpasses all understanding, because their true nature remains unchanged by the condition of the mind or body. Here are a few points to consider: Non-Identification with the Mind and Body: Non-dual realization often involves the recognition that one's true nature is not limited to the mind or body. While the body and mind may experience conditions like PTSD, the underlying awareness or consciousness remains untouched and at peace. Paradox of Manifestation: In the non-dual framework, the relative and the absolute coexist. A realized teacher may manifest symptoms of PTSD at the relative level, while simultaneously embodying the absolute peace at the level of pure consciousness. This paradox highlights the non-dual understanding that reality encompasses both the changing and the unchanging. Compassion and Humanity: Realized beings often retain their human characteristics and may experience suffering, which can deepen their compassion and connection with others. Their realization doesn’t necessarily imply immunity from human conditions, but it does imply a different relationship with those conditions. Embracing All Experiences: Non-duality encourages embracing all experiences, pleasant or painful, as expressions of the same underlying reality. A teacher with PTSD might exemplify how even challenging experiences are held within the vast, undisturbed space of awareness. In summary, from a non-dual perspective, a realized teacher with PTSD can indeed be seen as both experiencing the condition and simultaneously embodying the peace that surpasses all understanding. This reflects the non-dual insight that the essence of being is unchanging and ever-present, regardless of the fluctuations in the mind and body. Okay, thanks.
PTSD is the perspective of being separated from Source. But TPTPAU is the perspective of being at one with Source, or being Source. But that's not Adya's experience right now and probably hasn't been his experience for a long time. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 8, 2024 9:25:11 GMT -5
From Reefs link: he also alludes to needing to step away from teaching due to suffering from intense PTSD caused by episodes of debilitating pain earlier in his career. While he does not explicitly say what caused this, I happen to know, not just because I’m dope, but because I’ve binged all his shit, including random interviews. Adya had a debilitating and rare condition in his bladder that brought him mind-splitting pain. Fifteen years later, after almost two decades of brutal pain, he discovered the cause of this condition—an allergic reaction to the aluminum in his deodorant. With that deodorant in the dustbin, his condition was immediately resolved. Pretty neat. Yet the intense trauma from those years stayed with him and lingered as PTSD.Imagine the headlines in the non-dual tabloids:
"Famous Zen/Advaita Guru Knocked Out of Enlightened State by Toxic Deodorant, Now Treated for PTSD With Anti-depressants!"
Now, doesn't PTSD presuppose a total identification with the body-mind?
There's a comparable example, close by. I went to a TAT quarterly meeting about 25 years ago. Richard Rose was still alive, but was in some kind of care facility, he had Alzheimer's. I'd say just the body was defective. Consciousness can't function through a defective wet-computer. PTSD is the response of the body to an unbearable event, or continuing unbearable events. I think the statistics are 22 veterans kill themselves every day, our body-psychology was not made for the horrors of war. If you subject a child to this type of horror (beaten for no reason, verbal abuse, etc.), that's how serial killers are made, psychopaths. There are literally thousands of brain-processing-occurrences happening every second, all subconscious. Chronic pain can do nasty things to our brain-processing/psychology. "Neurons that fire together wire together." Donald Hebb I'd say it's complicated, one size does not fit all. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 8, 2024 9:38:37 GMT -5
Imagine the headlines in the non-dual tabloids:
"Famous Zen/Advaita Guru Knocked Out of Enlightened State by Toxic Deodorant, Now Treated for PTSD With Anti-depressants!"
Now, doesn't PTSD presuppose a total identification with the body-mind?
There's a comparable example, close by. I went to a TAT quarterly meeting about 25 years ago. Richard Rose was still alive, but was in some kind of care facility, he had Alzheimer's. I'd say just the body was defective. Consciousness can't function through a defective wet-computer. PTSD is the response of the body to an unbearable event, or continuing unbearable events. I think the statistics are 22 veterans kill themselves every day, our body-psychology was not made for the horrors of war. If you subject a child to this type of horror (beaten for no reason, verbal abuse, etc.), that's how serial killers are made. There are literally thousands of brain-processing-occurrences happening every second, all subconscious. I'd say it's complicated, one size does not fit all. Yes, the body keeps score. But the body and the mind are one unit. So a mind at ease will result in a body at ease. No matter what history, because the point of power is always in the now. And Adya didn't serve in a war zone or something. He just took the wrong deodorant.  Somehow I think that's not the whole story though. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 8, 2024 10:18:08 GMT -5
There's a comparable example, close by. I went to a TAT quarterly meeting about 25 years ago. Richard Rose was still alive, but was in some kind of care facility, he had Alzheimer's. I'd say just the body was defective. Consciousness can't function through a defective wet-computer. PTSD is the response of the body to an unbearable event, or continuing unbearable events. I think the statistics are 22 veterans kill themselves every day, our body-psychology was not made for the horrors of war. If you subject a child to this type of horror (beaten for no reason, verbal abuse, etc.), that's how serial killers are made. There are literally thousands of brain-processing-occurrences happening every second, all subconscious. I'd say it's complicated, one size does not fit all. Yes, the body keeps score. But the body and the mind are one unit. So a mind at ease will result in a body at ease. No matter what history, because the point of power is always in the now. And Adya didn't serve in a war zone or something. He just took the wrong deodorant. Somehow I think that's not the whole story though. I added a couple of things: Chronic pain can do nasty things to our brain-processing/psychology. "Neurons that fire together wire together." Donald Hebb Yes, the body and mind are one unit, but there is a distinction between the mind and the conscious mind. Probably conservatively, 99% of the mind is subconscious, below conscious level brain processing. Have you ever got a cramp? Not just an ordinary cramp, but one where the muscle just locks down in a knot. How long can you stand that? A few minutes and you'll find something to stop it. Pain can screw up the circuits where the mind-can't-reach. I've never heard of physical pain tied to PTSD, but it makes sense. Added note, relaxing the muscles regularly is one of the best things you can do all-round. (A body at ease will result in a mind at ease, it works both ways). |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 8, 2024 11:38:34 GMT -5
Yes, the body keeps score. But the body and the mind are one unit. So a mind at ease will result in a body at ease. No matter what history, because the point of power is always in the now. And Adya didn't serve in a war zone or something. He just took the wrong deodorant. Somehow I think that's not the whole story though. I added a couple of things: Chronic pain can do nasty things to our brain-processing/psychology. "Neurons that fire together wire together." Donald Hebb Yes, the body and mind are one unit, but there is a distinction between the mind and the conscious mind. Probably conservatively, 99% of the mind is subconscious, below conscious level brain processing. Have you ever got a cramp? Not just an ordinary cramp, but one where the muscle just locks down in a knot. How long can you stand that? A few minutes and you'll find something to stop it. Pain can screw up the circuits where the mind-can't-reach. I've never heard of physical pain tied to PTSD, but it makes sense. Added note, relaxing the muscles regularly is one of the best things you can do all-round. (A body at ease will result in a mind at ease, it works both ways). Again, there are warnings signs along the way before you end up with chronic pain, first very subtle, then not so subtle and then hard to ignore and then almost impossible to ignore. If you only notice it when you it is impossible to ignore, then you've been on autopilot most of the time. And so yes, pain gets your attention, that's the whole point of pain, isn't it?
Yes, one unit, so it works both ways. That's why EFT works. Just ask Andrew. However, the leverage is with the non-physical part (mind), not the physical part. That's how instant healing happens, by dealing with the mind, not with the body. If you only work on the body, once you stop working on it and don't work on the mind as well, you're back to square one after each session. Working on the body is also very time intensive. There's just no leverage.
I noticed that once when I had to edit some important documents which took about a week. Apparently there was tension because it was important and I had to get it done as soon as possible. So I had chronic pain in my shoulder. Now, I was able to manage it, did some yoga, stretching and all kinds of things and it really helped. But the next day I was back at square one again. Also, the time I spent on these exercises made me realize that this is not the right approach. Anyway, literally the moment I finished those documents the pain disappeared. No exercise or stretching necessary. That's how simple that is. You see, the easier route would have been to not take the whole project all too seriously etc. but when you are under time constraints and in full action mode, those options don't even occur to you. That's why it is so important to seek alignment first and only then get into action mode. So that was a good lesson in LOA and inner guidance again. But physical pain always tends to get people's attention eventually. It's just a question of when people feel that they have suffered enough. Because when they have decided that they have suffered enough, they actually do something about it and look for real solutions. In Adya's case he apparently waited 20 years. Totally unnecessary. Now, if Adya finds it cool that he can tolerate extreme pain for two decades, that's fine for him. But his followers will now glorify him for his ability to tolerate pain, they will probably conclude that stoically tolerating extreme pain is actually a main an indicator of sagehood. And this is where this goes all wrong. They will follow in his footsteps and end up the same way as he did.
That's why you should only trust your inner guidance, and never let it be replaced by outer guidance, no matter how enlightened your favorite guru appears or how logical your theories. You don't need any go-to guys. If you rely on your go-to guys, you're in trouble sooner or later.
Not having or recommending any go-to guys doesn't mean that you think that you are better than everybody else. Quite the contrary. We are all equals among equals, we all are Buddhas, and we all have inner guidance. The only difference is that some know it that they are Buddhas and that they can trust their inner guidance and others don't know it yet and don't trust their inner guidance anymore. There's no reason for any one-upmanship or sour grapes moralism. No one has any reason to feel superior and no one has any reason to feel inferior either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2024 12:31:17 GMT -5
The apparent confusion clears up nicely if you stop believing ideas from some lady with a cringy fake accent, who claimed that she was "channeling" an entity. Not sure why that is considered a source of truth. Most of us here could produce the same kind of idea stream, by simply journaling. But we wouldn't think to elevate it to a kind of religion.
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Post by laughter on Jun 8, 2024 13:21:32 GMT -5
The apparent confusion clears up nicely if you stop believing ideas from some lady with a cringy fake accent, who claimed that she was "channeling" an entity. Not sure why that is considered a source of truth. Most of us here could produce the same kind of idea stream, by simply journaling. But we wouldn't think to elevate it to a kind of religion. u mean Roberts? Hicks? both?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2024 13:32:47 GMT -5
The apparent confusion clears up nicely if you stop believing ideas from some lady with a cringy fake accent, who claimed that she was "channeling" an entity. Not sure why that is considered a source of truth. Most of us here could produce the same kind of idea stream, by simply journaling. But we wouldn't think to elevate it to a kind of religion. u mean Roberts? Hicks? both? I guess it was Hicks that Andrew posted and I listened to some. But my comment could apply to Roberts as well. |
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(.. all them medicine peeps, QUACKS! every single one 'o 'em! ..).
