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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 10:03:05 GMT -5
I'm just a nuts & bolts guy, a pragmatist. I'd say it's quite telling, sharon's posting the new Jeff Foster video. He just spoke from experience, he said he had spent personal time with numerous nondual teachers, time apart from the stage. He said every one, no exceptions, do not live what they preach. So he said he just stopped being a ND teacher. He's either advancing or reverting. Seems the video touched a raw nerve here. I don't look down on anybody, I think most everyone is doing the best they can. People get stuck, and don't see they're stuck. A nondual realization is fine, CC is fine. But they are an invitation to explore the territory, swim in it. There is no end to those possibilities. Some people live on the cutting edge of that exploration. I'd put lolly there, zazeniac, sharon plays her cards very tight. someNOTHING seems to have a foot in both worlds. andrew is very honest, no guile. Some freely admit that's just not where they're at, exploring, the exploration is done. I try to stay out of the accusing business, I've been stuck before. But Zen sickness seems to apply, sometimes. It just hit me in the midst of writing, I didn't recall Reefs ever recommending anyone as his unqualified top go-to. So I asked. ...Life is a hall of mirrors. You are trying too hard to prove your point. And I think it's time you give it a rest. It has become an obsession. And it is not doing your or the forum any good. Do you remember Arisha? You remind me of her.
You also seem to be unable to distinguish between fact (what's actually been written and what is in the archives) and fiction (your favorite pet theory in your own mind). You've become an expert giraffe herder.
Now, let me address some of your giraffes:
First, I regularly recommend books and teachings of other spiritual teachers.
Secondly, I've specifically made it clear that RM's or Niz' shortcomings in the physical human context do not devalue their realization status at all. Thirdly, there are no levels of SR. And SR or what is seen or realized in the event of SR is, has been and always will be the exact same realization for everyone, no matter what epoch, culture, or personal history or personal life circumstances.
Fourthly, you have made it abundantly clear that you have no reference for CC, SR or what non-duality is pointing to. So most of what you say about other people's realization status (or lack thereof) is therefore speculation, and most of the time actually mere projection. Fifthly, can you tell me who RM's or Niz or RK's or Bodhidharma's go-to guy was?
Sixthly, I sense a strong dose of what Nietzsche called "Moralin" in everything you write. He actually called moralism a form of cowardice. Maybe something to contemplate for you.
I want to ask about a potential grey area with the bolded, though this is not a criticism of either of them. In your view, what would one have to believe (either consciously or subconsciously) to manifest cancer? And would I be correct that this belief has zero bearing/relation to 'realization' or 'realization status'? Or another recent example....Adyashanti is retiring from teaching due to PTSD/anxiety. What belief would he have to hold to manifest/experience this? And again, does this have any bearing on realization or realization status? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 7, 2024 10:19:56 GMT -5
OK, I didn't you had changed your view. But this leaves out completely, conditioning. In my view, you have to account for individual conditioning/programming. And this is what accounts for murder, rape, terrorism, genocide, the nasty side of life. Do they occur outside of all that is? No. There are two flows within all that is. One flow accounts for the nastiness (the other flow, you describe). I've never changed my view regarding ND, and this does not leave out conditioning. Humans are culturally conditioned to imagine separateness. This is true for all humans. They think that they are separate volitional entities living in a world of separate things and other separate entities like themselves. They continue to believe this unless they penetrate that illusion. As such, they develop self-centeredness, tribal affiliations, and "negative" personality attributes that are based upon the idea of a "me" with personal needs/desires interacting with "others" who can be used to satisfy those needs/desires. People who wake up detach from those kinds of thoughts and see other people as manifestations of the same unified field of being that they are. This changes their understanding and way of life. In short, Jesus and Hitler were both manifestations of THIS because THIS is all there is. For most of planet Earth, it's the conditioning that's operating. I don't know why that's not apparent. Yes, within the Whole, but it's not the Whole operating in 8 billion people. The conditioning has the priority. That's why purification is necessary, to eliminate, in a single person, the primary influence, self-circuit-programmed-patterns. The conditioning itself is not imaginary, but it causes 'what is like unto itself'. Conditioning causes distortions in seeing what is. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 10:38:53 GMT -5
I've never changed my view regarding ND, and this does not leave out conditioning. Humans are culturally conditioned to imagine separateness. This is true for all humans. They think that they are separate volitional entities living in a world of separate things and other separate entities like themselves. They continue to believe this unless they penetrate that illusion. As such, they develop self-centeredness, tribal affiliations, and "negative" personality attributes that are based upon the idea of a "me" with personal needs/desires interacting with "others" who can be used to satisfy those needs/desires. People who wake up detach from those kinds of thoughts and see other people as manifestations of the same unified field of being that they are. This changes their understanding and way of life. In short, Jesus and Hitler were both manifestations of THIS because THIS is all there is. For most of planet Earth, it's the conditioning that's operating. I don't know why that's not apparent. Yes, within the Whole, but it's not the Whole operating in 8 billion people. The conditioning has the priority. That's why purification is necessary, to eliminate, in a single person, the primary influence, self-circuit-programmed-patterns. The conditioning itself is not imaginary, but it causes 'what is like unto itself'. Conditioning causes distortions in seeing what is. That all sounds pretty inarguable to me. But here's a question.. I'd say purification engenders a subtle and slight arguing with 'what is'. That's not to say that one shouldn't 'purify', after all, most folks are already arguing with 'what is'. Might as well argue in a useful way. Now let's take your average SR 'individual', that's 'done', and so is basically no longer arguing/resisting what is, but it still humanly imperfect, and so there's room for more purification. If these SR folks had the interest, or capacity, to purify further, is it possible that the arguing that is implicit to the process of purification, would create a lower state of consciousness than they already have? |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 7, 2024 10:46:05 GMT -5
I've never changed my view regarding ND, and this does not leave out conditioning. Humans are culturally conditioned to imagine separateness. This is true for all humans. They think that they are separate volitional entities living in a world of separate things and other separate entities like themselves. They continue to believe this unless they penetrate that illusion. As such, they develop self-centeredness, tribal affiliations, and "negative" personality attributes that are based upon the idea of a "me" with personal needs/desires interacting with "others" who can be used to satisfy those needs/desires. People who wake up detach from those kinds of thoughts and see other people as manifestations of the same unified field of being that they are. This changes their understanding and way of life. In short, Jesus and Hitler were both manifestations of THIS because THIS is all there is. For most of planet Earth, it's the conditioning that's operating. I don't know why that's not apparent. Yes, within the Whole, but it's not the Whole operating in 8 billion people. The conditioning has the priority. That's why purification is necessary, to eliminate, in a single person, the primary influence, self-circuit-programmed-patterns. The conditioning itself is not imaginary, but it causes 'what is like unto itself'. Conditioning causes distortions in seeing what is. Why would anyone think that the Whole is NOT operating in all 8 billion people as well as every other creature? The definition of "Whole" is" all-that-is," "totality," "the entire field of all being." Conditioning is a fact of life, and no one is denying this. A sage is also subject to conditioning and manifests his/her conditioning. A sage may become free of tribalistic conditioning, and identification as a SVP, but if a sage bumps his/her leg repeatedly upon a projection from a piece of furniture, s/he will modify behavior to avoid the projection. If the projection is removed, the sage's body will continue to avoid that area for a period of about two weeks until the body learns that the projection is no longer there, and quits responding to past conditioning. I remember one time when Zen Master Seung Sahn made a statement that offended certain members of his audience, and they called him on it. He responded with a laugh. and said, in essence,, "If that offends you, just ignore it because it just comes from my cultural conditioning. In my country (Korea) people eat dogs, and that's highly offensive to people in various other countries." The important point that people on this forum make is that seeing through the illusion of the SVP radically changes one's way of life, understanding of reality, understanding of the mind's limitations, and one's sense of goundedness, freedom, and equanimity. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2024 10:53:28 GMT -5
I would just ignore nonduality if you think it's BS. Some of what I'm reading here gives nonduality a bad name. Just follow your own path. Or if interested, stick with a classic like I Am That. Jesus said something about not praying in public, or you "have your reward". In modern times that advice might be: don't post about it on forums. Pray/practice in private. There is a competition mind-state here. If people use something sacred to try to one-up others, they "have their reward". Careful. Some people think energy vampires are real things in the astral plane.... maybe. Two questions for you: 1) Do you know a non-comparative/non-competitive spiritual forum? 2) Are you a reincarnation of robertk/robertc? 1) Yes, though they were in the past. 2) No, but you're right I was here before, a long time ago. I'll de-anonymize myself right after you do. I think I know the reason for a few recent new users, but I don't want to de-anonymize them either. There was a discussion, and maybe some people came to check it out. I doubt I'm sticking around either; I should be out of your hair soon enough. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 10:54:52 GMT -5
For most of planet Earth, it's the conditioning that's operating. I don't know why that's not apparent. Yes, within the Whole, but it's not the Whole operating in 8 billion people. The conditioning has the priority. That's why purification is necessary, to eliminate, in a single person, the primary influence, self-circuit-programmed-patterns. The conditioning itself is not imaginary, but it causes 'what is like unto itself'. Conditioning causes distortions in seeing what is. Why would anyone think that the Whole is NOT operating in all 8 billion people as well as every other creature? The definition of "Whole" is" all-that-is," "totality," "the entire field of all being." Conditioning is a fact of life, and no one is denying this. A sage is also subject to conditioning and manifests his/her conditioning. A sage may become free of tribalistic conditioning, and identification as a SVP, but if a sage bumps his/her leg repeatedly upon a projection from a piece of furniture, s/he will modify behavior to avoid the projection. If the projection is removed, the sage's body will continue to avoid that area for a period of about two weeks until the body learns that the projection is no longer there, and quits responding to past conditioning. I remember one time when Zen Master Seung Sahn made a statement that offended certain members of his audience, and they called him on it. He responded with a laugh. and said, in essence,, "If that offends you, just ignore it because it just comes from my cultural conditioning. In my country (Korea) people eat dogs, and that's highly offensive to people in various other countries." The important point that people on this forum make is that seeing through the illusion of the SVP radically changes one's way of life, understanding of reality, understanding of the mind's limitations, and one's sense of goundedness, freedom, and equanimity. Actually, even though I said I found what sdp said pretty inarguable, I seem to have overlooked that question, which is a good one. Yes, surely the 'Whole' couldn't exclude anyone or anything...coz it's....'the Whole'. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 10:56:50 GMT -5
Two questions for you: 1) Do you know a non-comparative/non-competitive spiritual forum? 2) Are you a reincarnation of robertk/robertc? 1) Yes, though they were in the past. 2) No, but you're right I was here before, a long time ago. I'll de-anonymize myself right after you do. I think I know the reason for a few recent new users, but I don't want to de-anonymize them either. There was a discussion, and maybe some people came to check it out. I doubt I'm sticking around either; I should be out of your hair soon enough. That sounds interesting, was it a public discussion i.e we can see it? Edit: It sometimes seems a shame that we push people away, as the longtimers here generally already know what we each think. What do you think would push people away less? |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2024 11:00:31 GMT -5
You are trying too hard to prove your point. And I think it's time you give it a rest. It has become an obsession. And it is not doing your or the forum any good. Do you remember Arisha? You remind me of her.
You also seem to be unable to distinguish between fact (what's actually been written and what is in the archives) and fiction (your favorite pet theory in your own mind). You've become an expert giraffe herder.
Now, let me address some of your giraffes:
First, I regularly recommend books and teachings of other spiritual teachers.
Secondly, I've specifically made it clear that RM's or Niz' shortcomings in the physical human context do not devalue their realization status at all. Thirdly, there are no levels of SR. And SR or what is seen or realized in the event of SR is, has been and always will be the exact same realization for everyone, no matter what epoch, culture, or personal history or personal life circumstances.
Fourthly, you have made it abundantly clear that you have no reference for CC, SR or what non-duality is pointing to. So most of what you say about other people's realization status (or lack thereof) is therefore speculation, and most of the time actually mere projection. Fifthly, can you tell me who RM's or Niz or RK's or Bodhidharma's go-to guy was?
Sixthly, I sense a strong dose of what Nietzsche called "Moralin" in everything you write. He actually called moralism a form of cowardice. Maybe something to contemplate for you.
I want to ask about a potential grey area with the bolded, though this is not a criticism of either of them. In your view, what would one have to believe (either consciously or subconsciously) to manifest cancer? And would I be correct that this belief has zero bearing/relation to 'realization' or 'realization status'? Or another recent example....Adyashanti is retiring from teaching due to PTSD/anxiety. What belief would he have to hold to manifest/experience this? And again, does this have any bearing on realization or realization status? I didn't know Adya was suffering from PTSD, I thought he was suffering from some kind of allergy that left him in physical pain for 20 years? Interesting. PTSD is overthinking, monkey-mind, SVP stuff, isn't it? If that's true, then Adya would be just another Jeff. Interesting who physical ailments keep humbling these teachers of lofty truths about the end of suffering etc, isn't it?
But good question. Keep in mind that there is conditional peace as there is unconditional peace. Conditional peace depends on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). Unconditional peace does not depend on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is not subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). I don't think you have to identify one specific belief. You see, when you don't understand what emotions are and what negative emotion means, when you instead ignore or learn to tolerate negative emotions, at some point it takes its toll on the body. And advaita teaching is an open invitation to that, I'm afraid. So the specific belief doesn't seem to matter, the placement of your predominant mood on the emotional scale is what matters. And that can show up in many different bogus beliefs.
Now, assuming what you say is correct about Adya, then he must have neither conditional nor unconditional peace. RM and Niz though, they seem firmly rooted in unconditional peace, but it seems to me they were totally oblivious to their inner guidance. At that may be due to some religious beliefs like the body is just a collection of dirt etc.
Also notice how RM and Niz never played the "I'm just human and weak and fallible like everybody else" card. Jeff likes to play that card. It resonates with others who are suffering. Not sure if Adya has played that card lately. But if you start playing that card, you're back to seeker status.
But I'd like to see some proof, some actual link to a public statement from Adya that he suffers from PTSD before I believe that. Because Adya has been one of the clearest and most consistent voices out there. His realization always seemed genuine. However, he could have just been speaking from memory for the last 20 years.
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 11:03:39 GMT -5
I want to ask about a potential grey area with the bolded, though this is not a criticism of either of them. In your view, what would one have to believe (either consciously or subconsciously) to manifest cancer? And would I be correct that this belief has zero bearing/relation to 'realization' or 'realization status'? Or another recent example....Adyashanti is retiring from teaching due to PTSD/anxiety. What belief would he have to hold to manifest/experience this? And again, does this have any bearing on realization or realization status? I didn't know Adya was suffering from PTSD, I thought he was suffering from some kind of allergy that left him in physical pain for 20 years? Interesting. PTSD is overthinking, monkey-mind, SVP stuff, isn't it? If that's true, then Adya would be just another Jeff. Interesting who physical ailments keep humbling these teachers of lofty truths about the end of suffering etc, isn't it?
But good question. Keep in mind that there is conditional peace as there is unconditional peace. Conditional peace depends on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). Unconditional peace does not depend on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is not subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). I don't think you have to identify one specific belief. You see, when you don't understand what emotions are and what negative emotion means, when you instead ignore or learn to tolerate negative emotions, at some point it takes its toll on the body. And advaita teaching is an open invitation to that, I'm afraid. So the specific belief doesn't seem to matter, the placement of your predominant mood on the emotional scale is what matters. And that can show up in many different bogus beliefs.
Now, assuming what you say is correct about Adya, then he must have neither conditional nor unconditional peace. RM and Niz though, they seem firmly rooted in unconditional peace, but it seems to me they were totally oblivious to their inner guidance. At that may be due to some religious beliefs like the body is just a collection of dirt etc.
Also notice how RM and Niz never played the "I'm just human and weak and fallible like everybody else" card. Jeff likes to play that card. It resonates with others who are suffering. Not sure if Adya has played that card lately. But if you start playing that card, you're back to seeker status. But I'd like to see some proof, some actual link to a public statement from Adya that he suffers from PTSD before I believe that. Because Adya has been one of the clearest and most consistent voices out there. His realization always seemed genuine. However, he could have just been speaking from memory for the last 20 years.
I'll read the rest of what you said more slowly, but I saw it on reddit, and then here. I also say the PTSD described as anxiety en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyashanti#:~:text=In%20April%202014%2C%20he%20appeared%20in%20an%20interview,a%20very%20long%20period%20of%20intense%20physical%20pain. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2024 11:12:50 GMT -5
Two questions for you: 1) Do you know a non-comparative/non-competitive spiritual forum? 2) Are you a reincarnation of robertk/robertc? 1) Yes, though they were in the past. 2) No, but you're right I was here before, a long time ago. I'll de-anonymize myself right after you do. I think I know the reason for a few recent new users, but I don't want to de-anonymize them either. There was a discussion, and maybe some people came to check it out. I doubt I'm sticking around either; I should be out of your hair soon enough. 1) i.e. you can't prove it? 2) Have you been banned from here? I don't get this incognito reincarnation thing of some members here. You are not the only one, btw. I do get that some might want a fresh start at some point. But usually they fall back into old habits quickly and battle the same old people over the same old arguments again and thereby reveal their true identity again. And then they get frustrated again and disappear again. And after a while, usually several months, something pulls them back here again and the cycle starts again...
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
I want to ask about a potential grey area with the bolded, though this is not a criticism of either of them. In your view, what would one have to believe (either consciously or subconsciously) to manifest cancer? And would I be correct that this belief has zero bearing/relation to 'realization' or 'realization status'? Or another recent example....Adyashanti is retiring from teaching due to PTSD/anxiety. What belief would he have to hold to manifest/experience this? And again, does this have any bearing on realization or realization status? I didn't know Adya was suffering from PTSD, I thought he was suffering from some kind of allergy that left him in physical pain for 20 years? Interesting. PTSD is overthinking, monkey-mind, SVP stuff, isn't it? If that's true, then Adya would be just another Jeff. Interesting who physical ailments keep humbling these teachers of lofty truths about the end of suffering etc, isn't it?
But good question. Keep in mind that there is conditional peace as there is unconditional peace. Conditional peace depends on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). Unconditional peace does not depend on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is not subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). I don't think you have to identify one specific belief. You see, when you don't understand what emotions are and what negative emotion means, when you instead ignore or learn to tolerate negative emotions, at some point it takes its toll on the body. And advaita teaching is an open invitation to that, I'm afraid. So the specific belief doesn't seem to matter, the placement of your predominant mood on the emotional scale is what matters. And that can show up in many different bogus beliefs.
Now, assuming what you say is correct about Adya, then he must have neither conditional nor unconditional peace. RM and Niz though, they seem firmly rooted in unconditional peace, but it seems to me they were totally oblivious to their inner guidance. At that may be due to some religious beliefs like the body is just a collection of dirt etc.
Also notice how RM and Niz never played the "I'm just human and weak and fallible like everybody else" card. Jeff likes to play that card. It resonates with others who are suffering. Not sure if Adya has played that card lately. But if you start playing that card, you're back to seeker status. But I'd like to see some proof, some actual link to a public statement from Adya that he suffers from PTSD before I believe that. Because Adya has been one of the clearest and most consistent voices out there. His realization always seemed genuine. However, he could have just been speaking from memory for the last 20 years.
Well, let me say up front that my view of 'self-realization' is a bit different to yours. I see 'self-realization' and 'enlightenment' as two slightly different things. So I wouldn't necessarily say that Adya's realization isn't 'genuine', on the basis of anxiety/PTSD. Or physical pain. I see self-realization as transformative, and there's no way back from it. It changes everything about our way of experiencing/perceiving. But it doesn't necessarily eliminate all 'negative' conditioning, nor lower vibrational movements of energy. So for me, there's an 'ambiguity' to self-realization. In a sense, I see 'self-realization' as more a theme that some folks share, more than an end-point. So I'd agree that there was potential room for growth in Niz/Ramana's 'focus' or 'emotional states', and as you say, perhaps some kind of leftover religious beliefs were part of that. I'm not sure I'd agree they were ignoring their inner guidance, because inner guidance can only point us to what is potentially available for us, given our life context. So in the case of Niz/Ramana's life context, it probably wasn't ever appropriate or possible for them to address their leftover beliefs. It's why I said some pages ago, that there are life forces that are as powerful as LOA e.g 'soul contracts'. To be clear, I don't want to be setting myself up as better than any of the people I mentioned. I have aches and pains, a dodgy back, I have problematic beliefs, poor focus etc lol...I can see it all for what it is, and am also aware that there is a divine timing to change/growth. I try to nudge things along sometimes, but 'pushing' is not useful. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 7, 2024 11:27:50 GMT -5
Why would anyone think that the Whole is NOT operating in all 8 billion people as well as every other creature? The definition of "Whole" is" all-that-is," "totality," "the entire field of all being." Conditioning is a fact of life, and no one is denying this. A sage is also subject to conditioning and manifests his/her conditioning. A sage may become free of tribalistic conditioning, and identification as a SVP, but if a sage bumps his/her leg repeatedly upon a projection from a piece of furniture, s/he will modify behavior to avoid the projection. If the projection is removed, the sage's body will continue to avoid that area for a period of about two weeks until the body learns that the projection is no longer there, and quits responding to past conditioning. I remember one time when Zen Master Seung Sahn made a statement that offended certain members of his audience, and they called him on it. He responded with a laugh. and said, in essence,, "If that offends you, just ignore it because it just comes from my cultural conditioning. In my country (Korea) people eat dogs, and that's highly offensive to people in various other countries." The important point that people on this forum make is that seeing through the illusion of the SVP radically changes one's way of life, understanding of reality, understanding of the mind's limitations, and one's sense of goundedness, freedom, and equanimity. Actually, even though I said I found what sdp said pretty inarguable, I seem to have overlooked that question, which is a good one. Yes, surely the 'Whole' couldn't exclude anyone or anything...coz it's....'the Whole'. I've tried to be very careful with language. It's a matter of proximity. Would the Whole cause a man to murder his wife? No, but jealousy might. Would the Whole cause Israel to try to wipe out Hamas? (And likewise, Hamas want to eliminate Israel?) No. But conditioned hate, would. Proximity is everything. But again, it's not happening outside the Whole. The Moon's gravity exerts influence and causes the tides. The Sun, not so much. Analogy, proximity. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 7, 2024 11:32:44 GMT -5
Actually, even though I said I found what sdp said pretty inarguable, I seem to have overlooked that question, which is a good one. Yes, surely the 'Whole' couldn't exclude anyone or anything...coz it's....'the Whole'. I've tried to be very careful with language. It's a matter of proximity. Would the Whole cause a man to murder his wife? No, but jealousy might. Would the Whole cause Israel to try to wipe out Hamas? (And likewise, Hamas want to eliminate Israel?) No. But conditioned hate, would. Proximity is everything. But again, it's not happening outside the Whole. The Moon's gravity exerts influence and causes the tides. The Sun, not so much. Analogy, proximity. I think I see the distinction you've made. So nothing that happens is outside the 'Whole', but the 'Whole' isn't just a 'container' (sorry, horrible word), it can also be a 'cause'? If I've got that right, what would you say is the cause of conditioned hate, if not the 'Whole'? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 7, 2024 11:35:13 GMT -5
I want to ask about a potential grey area with the bolded, though this is not a criticism of either of them. In your view, what would one have to believe (either consciously or subconsciously) to manifest cancer? And would I be correct that this belief has zero bearing/relation to 'realization' or 'realization status'? Or another recent example....Adyashanti is retiring from teaching due to PTSD/anxiety. What belief would he have to hold to manifest/experience this? And again, does this have any bearing on realization or realization status? I didn't know Adya was suffering from PTSD, I thought he was suffering from some kind of allergy that left him in physical pain for 20 years? Interesting. PTSD is overthinking, monkey-mind, SVP stuff, isn't it? If that's true, then Adya would be just another Jeff. Interesting who physical ailments keep humbling these teachers of lofty truths about the end of suffering etc, isn't it?
But good question. Keep in mind that there is conditional peace as there is unconditional peace. Conditional peace depends on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). Unconditional peace does not depend on what you do with your focus, where you put your attention, i.e. this is not subject to LOA (or the gunas or karma). I don't think you have to identify one specific belief. You see, when you don't understand what emotions are and what negative emotion means, when you instead ignore or learn to tolerate negative emotions, at some point it takes its toll on the body. And advaita teaching is an open invitation to that, I'm afraid. So the specific belief doesn't seem to matter, the placement of your predominant mood on the emotional scale is what matters. And that can show up in many different bogus beliefs.
Now, assuming what you say is correct about Adya, then he must have neither conditional nor unconditional peace. RM and Niz though, they seem firmly rooted in unconditional peace, but it seems to me they were totally oblivious to their inner guidance. At that may be due to some religious beliefs like the body is just a collection of dirt etc.
Also notice how RM and Niz never played the "I'm just human and weak and fallible like everybody else" card. Jeff likes to play that card. It resonates with others who are suffering. Not sure if Adya has played that card lately. But if you start playing that card, you're back to seeker status. But I'd like to see some proof, some actual link to a public statement from Adya that he suffers from PTSD before I believe that. Because Adya has been one of the clearest and most consistent voices out there. His realization always seemed genuine. However, he could have just been speaking from memory for the last 20 years.
All I saw was a statement from him. It seemed to indicate some kind of physical disability. I thought maybe dementia of some sort, but that was speculation. Seems like kind of a professional athlete, retiring, as he's not at the peak of performance. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 7, 2024 11:37:35 GMT -5
I've tried to be very careful with language. It's a matter of proximity. Would the Whole cause a man to murder his wife? No, but jealousy might. Would the Whole cause Israel to try to wipe out Hamas? (And likewise, Hamas want to eliminate Israel?) No. But conditioned hate, would. Proximity is everything. But again, it's not happening outside the Whole. The Moon's gravity exerts influence and causes the tides. The Sun, not so much. Analogy, proximity. I think I see the distinction you've made. So nothing that happens is outside the 'Whole', but the 'Whole' isn't just a 'container' (sorry, horrible word), it can also be a 'cause'? If I've got that right, what would you say is the cause of conditioned hate, if not the 'Whole'? Hurt people hurt people. Conditiong comes from conditioned people. It's a self-perpetuating problem. Again, local influences predominate. |
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