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Post by inavalan on Feb 22, 2024 13:59:42 GMT -5
link- Chinese researchers have developed a new 3D optical data storage architecture that reaches petabit level capacity.
Nature, February 21, 2024
This can store 24 times the data of most advanced hard disk drives, paving way for energy efficient, cost-effective exabit data centers.
Exabit: a unit of information equal to 1000 petabits or 10^18 bits.
A research team in China says it has developed a technology that allows a massive data set – equal to about 5.8 billion indexed web pages – to be stored in a device the size of a desktop computer.
For perspective, if the data was stored using 1-terabyte hard drives, the devices would cover an area about the size of an average playground.
The good, the bad and the ugly.
Basically, this technology will likely revolutionize virtual reality, robotics, AI, human augmentation (transhumanism), self driving vehicles, space travel and data center storage. It will change our world in ways that we can’t imagine or conceive of. This is going to come at us fast folks and the ethical issues are enormous.
This is a typical example of technological progress based on intelligence, that lacks intuition; for many reasons. A less obvious one is that innerly and innately we are all connected, and could access an infinite amount of information, instantly. What we lack, and apparently little effort is made to overcome the lack of, is the mindset to do it. Then surely we are distributed on a bell-curve in regard to intellectual abilities. The knowledge how to overcome this is more or less described by ancient knowledge, like the chapter 3 of the Yoga Sutras, and can be individually accessed innerly, once you brake through conditioning. If this were happening at mass level, not just at isolated individual level, a leap ahead would happen. Breaking through conditioning can be done, and I'm sure it is done in some probable realities. Surely there are probable realities that are much worse than ours, but we should do our best, individually and en masse, to join the frontrunners not the losers. I read a book a while back by Peter Thiel. It was about businesses, startups. He said: if you know something other people don't know, you can build on that – it's an advantage. So if you have a way to draw upon terabytes of information without the help from silicon transistors, you can use it. Eventually people notice you're kicking ass, and they want to copy you, the secret would get out. To me, the more important thing is: what I am here to achieve / do. That can't be answered intellectually, but only intuitively, and subscribing to any others' beliefs is most likely counterproductive. I believe that asking yourself (impersonal use here) "what am I here to achieve / do?" is the first quantum leap in your understanding. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2024 15:14:57 GMT -5
I read a book a while back by Peter Thiel. It was about businesses, startups. He said: if you know something other people don't know, you can build on that – it's an advantage. So if you have a way to draw upon terabytes of information without the help from silicon transistors, you can use it. Eventually people notice you're kicking ass, and they want to copy you, the secret would get out. To me, the more important thing is: what I am here to achieve / do. That can't be answered intellectually, but only intuitively, and subscribing to any others' beliefs is most likely counterproductive. I believe that asking yourself (impersonal use here) "what am I here to achieve / do?" is the first quantum leap in your understanding. That's how it is for me. In counselling in my mid 20s, I had a sudden overwhelming sense that 'healing' was part of what I was here to do. It was such a bizarre thing for me to think at the time, I had no background in it in any sense. I would have mocked it a year earlier. And I didn't even really understand what 'healing' meant. Was I supposed to put on a robe, stand on a street and do something? I did nothing with it at first, but that sense did initially lead me to explorations into Reiki and 'reconnective' healing and other modalities in the following years. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 22, 2024 15:21:46 GMT -5
It could be a matter of degree. For example, plants can register a human threat i.e they respond in such that that could be interpreted as 'fear' when they see a human wielding a weapon. But what's interesting is that when the human has the weapon and pretends to be a threat (i.e has no intention of damaging the plant), the plant doesn't respond and register the threat i.e it's not scared. Which suggests that plants have awareness of our 'intent'. Yes, consciousness is clearly self-preserving, self-protecting. Life wants to live. Even single cell animals will flee danger. But does that make them aware that they are aware? I don't know. I only know what humans beings are capable of...awakening to awareness of awareness. It is the very reason teachers teach, and preachers preach, to awaken others. I won't rule out rocks awakening on some other level because, as L. said recently, god moves in mysterious ways, and in a cosmos of infinite possibilites it would be a bad bet to do so. :-) Yes, I'm slightly inclined to think that rocks can experience an awakening in their own 'rockish consciousness' way. I'm currently working closely with 2 dogs to train them, and one of them is being asked to awaken from a particular kind of 'trance' state, in order that he can walk sensibly. It's to his benefit, because when we first met him, he was literally unwalkable. Totally insane. Witnessing the challenge he's experiencing in his consciousness in the last few weeks is quite interesting really (he's walking much better now, but still some way to go). |
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Post by inavalan on Feb 22, 2024 19:02:02 GMT -5
To me, the more important thing is: what I am here to achieve / do. That can't be answered intellectually, but only intuitively, and subscribing to any others' beliefs is most likely counterproductive. I believe that asking yourself (impersonal use here) "what am I here to achieve / do?" is the first quantum leap in your understanding. That's how it is for me. In counselling in my mid 20s, I had a sudden overwhelming sense that 'healing' was part of what I was here to do. It was such a bizarre thing for me to think at the time, I had no background in it in any sense. I would have mocked it a year earlier. And I didn't even really understand what 'healing' meant. Was I supposed to put on a robe, stand on a street and do something? I did nothing with it at first, but that sense did initially lead me to explorations into Reiki and 'reconnective' healing and other modalities in the following years. I love dogs. There are no "bad" dogs. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2024 2:10:41 GMT -5
That's how it is for me. In counselling in my mid 20s, I had a sudden overwhelming sense that 'healing' was part of what I was here to do. It was such a bizarre thing for me to think at the time, I had no background in it in any sense. I would have mocked it a year earlier. And I didn't even really understand what 'healing' meant. Was I supposed to put on a robe, stand on a street and do something? I did nothing with it at first, but that sense did initially lead me to explorations into Reiki and 'reconnective' healing and other modalities in the following years. I love dogs. There are no "bad" dogs. Agree  |
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Post by justlikeyou on Feb 23, 2024 7:53:50 GMT -5
Yes, consciousness is clearly self-preserving, self-protecting. Life wants to live. Even single cell animals will flee danger. But does that make them aware that they are aware? I don't know. I only know what humans beings are capable of...awakening to awareness of awareness. It is the very reason teachers teach, and preachers preach, to awaken others. I won't rule out rocks awakening on some other level because, as L. said recently, god moves in mysterious ways, and in a cosmos of infinite possibilites it would be a bad bet to do so. :-) Yes, I'm slightly inclined to think that rocks can experience an awakening in their own 'rockish consciousness' way. I'm currently working closely with 2 dogs to train them, and one of them is being asked to awaken from a particular kind of 'trance' state, in order that he can walk sensibly. It's to his benefit, because when we first met him, he was literally unwalkable. Totally insane. Witnessing the challenge he's experiencing in his consciousness in the last few weeks is quite interesting really (he's walking much better now, but still some way to go). I once watched my dog standing by the porch door single-mindedly intent on going outside and waiting for me to come open the door. As I walked over to let him out he suddenly snapped out of his eagerness, turned and ran back onto the house only to come back a few moments later with a toy in his mouth. In some way the "thought" to get his toy occurred to him out of the blue. Living with dogs can be quite fun. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Feb 23, 2024 7:58:37 GMT -5
Question: What is Advaita Vendanta (non-duality) and how does it view the cosmos and the human being's place in it?
ChatGPT: Advaita Vedanta is a school of Hindu philosophy that specifically emphasizes the non-dualistic nature of reality. The term "Advaita" means non-duality, and Advaita Vedanta teaches that the ultimate reality, Brahman, is devoid of any distinctions or dualities. In the context of Advaita Vedanta, the human being and the entire cosmos are considered manifestations of this non-dual, ultimate reality.
Key points of Advaita Vedanta in relation to the human being and the cosmic order include:
Non-Duality (Advaita): Advaita Vedanta teaches that there is only one ultimate reality, Brahman, and that the perceived multiplicity and diversity in the world are ultimately illusory. The individual soul (Atman) is considered identical to Brahman in its true nature.
Maya (Illusion): The diversity and differentiation observed in the world are explained through the concept of Maya, which is an illusory power that veils the true nature of reality. The world, including individual identities and distinctions, is considered a temporary and therefore unreal manifestation.
Self-Realization (Atma-jnana): The primary goal in Advaita Vedanta is the realization of one's true nature as identical to Brahman. This self-realization involves transcending the illusion of individual identity and recognizing the underlying unity of Atman and Brahman.
Liberation (Moksha): Liberation (Moksha) is the ultimate aim in Advaita Vedanta. It is the state of realizing the non-dual nature of reality and being free from the cycle of birth and death (samsara). This liberation is achieved through knowledge (jnana) and the direct experience of one's identity with Brahman.
Question: Does Maya suggest that the world is a complete illusion or suggest that Reality is hidden from view behind the temporarily manifesting?
ChatGPT: In Advaita Vedanta, the concept of Maya is complex and can be understood in different ways. It does not necessarily assert that the world is a complete illusion in the sense of being non-existent. Instead, Maya is often described as a power or principle that veils the true nature of reality, creating an appearance of diversity and multiplicity.
Maya is considered a mysterious and elusive force that conceals the underlying unity of Brahman. It is not an absolute reality but rather a relative and temporary aspect of the ultimate truth. The world, including individual identities and distinctions, is seen as a projection or manifestation of Maya.
There are two main aspects to the understanding of Maya in Advaita Vedanta:
Veiling Power (Avarana): Maya has the power to veil or cover the true nature of Brahman. It hides the oneness and non-dual nature of reality, leading individuals to perceive the world as a diverse and differentiated entity.
Projecting Power (Vikshepa): Maya also has the power to project or create the appearance of the world. It is the creative aspect that manifests the apparent diversity and multiplicity of the phenomenal world.
While the world is not considered absolutely real in Advaita Vedanta, it is not dismissed as mere illusion either. The term often used is "mithya," which means neither absolutely real (sat) nor absolutely unreal (asat). The world has a relative reality, and its existence is acknowledged as long as one is within the realm of empirical experience.
The goal in Advaita Vedanta is to pierce through the veil of Maya through self-realization and knowledge. By understanding the illusory nature of the world and recognizing the underlying non-dual reality of Brahman, one can attain liberation (Moksha) and be free from the cycle of birth and death. The emphasis is on transcending the illusions created by Maya rather than denying the existence of the world altogether.
Question: Why would Brahman seemingly allow itself to be hidden by a superimposition?
ChatGPT: In the Advaita Vedanta philosophy, Brahman is considered beyond attributes, limitless, and unchanging. The question of why Brahman allows itself to be seemingly hidden by Maya, a superimposition, involves exploring the nature of the ultimate reality and the purpose of the empirical world.
Lila or Divine Play: One interpretation in Hindu philosophy is that the apparent concealment of Brahman by Maya is part of a divine play or cosmic drama (Lila). The concept suggests that Brahman voluntarily participates in the creative process, allowing the unfoldment of the universe with all its diversity and experiences. This perspective sees the manifestation of the world as a dynamic expression of the divine, undertaken for the sake of joy and self-expression.
Potential for Self-Realization: The superimposition of Maya serves as a test or challenge for individual souls within the manifested world. By navigating through the illusions of Maya, individuals have the opportunity to evolve spiritually, gain self-awareness, and ultimately realize their true nature as identical to Brahman. The challenges posed by Maya create the conditions for the journey toward self-realization.
Freedom of Will: Another perspective is that Brahman, being limitless, grants a certain degree of freedom or free will to individual souls within the realm of Maya. This allows for the diversity of experiences and choices within the empirical world. The concealment by Maya is a consequence of the play of free will within the created universe.
Path to Liberation: The superimposition of Maya provides the context for the spiritual journey and the pursuit of liberation (Moksha). The challenges and illusions presented by Maya create the conditions for individuals to seek deeper understanding, overcome ignorance, and realize their essential oneness with Brahman. The process of self-realization, in this context, involves lifting the veil of Maya.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 7, 2024 5:57:38 GMT -5
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Post by justlikeyou on Mar 18, 2024 20:32:08 GMT -5
Nisargadatta said stones were conscious, like It was looking through stones and trees and everything else Not sure that rocks are on the same level as higher life forms. Below is a good example of consciousness alive and aware but not yet aware that it is aware.  "I am now 74 years old. And yet I feel that I am an infant. I feel clearly that in spite of all the changes I am a child. My Guru told me: that child, which is you even now, is your real self (swarupa). Go back to that state of pure being, where the ‘I am’ is still in its purity before it got contaminated with ‘this I am’ or ‘that I am’. Your burden is of false self-identifications — abandon them all" -Nisargadatta |
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Post by justlikeyou on Mar 23, 2024 8:34:22 GMT -5
Question: Are the Marathi words awareness and aliveness similar?
ChatGPT: Yes, in Marathi, the words "awareness" and "aliveness" have similarities in meaning but are used in slightly different contexts:
Awareness: In Marathi, "जागरूकता" (jagrukata) or "जाण" (jan) are commonly used for "awareness." It refers to being conscious, alert, or knowledgeable about something.
Aliveness: The term for "aliveness" in Marathi could be "जीवंतता" (jeevantata) or "जिवंतपणा" (jivantpana), which denotes the state of being alive or vibrant, full of life and energy.
While both words convey a sense of being conscious and active, "awareness" typically relates more to understanding or being cognizant of something, while "aliveness" emphasizes vitality and being lively or animated.
Question: The following is the English translation of Nisargadatta's statement in Marathi:
"Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience."
Is it possible that Nisargadatta could be using the word awareness in a similar way to the word aliveness?
ChatGPT: Yes, Nisargadatta's use of the word "awareness" aligns more closely with the concept of "aliveness" rather than the English term "awareness." In his teachings, Nisargadatta often emphasizes the primordial and unchanging nature of awareness, which is akin to the liveliness or aliveness that pervades existence. This understanding of awareness goes beyond mere cognitive awareness or consciousness as typically understood in English.
So, when Nisargadatta speaks of awareness as primordial, beginningless, endless, and without change, he is pointing to a state of being that is akin to aliveness or vitality, which is intrinsic to existence itself. This is in contrast to consciousness, which he describes as a dualistic state that arises through contact and is relative to its content, always being of something and subject to change.
Therefore, it is possible to interpret Nisargadatta's use of the word "awareness" in a similar way to the word "aliveness," as both concepts point to a fundamental, unchanging aspect of existence that is beyond the fluctuations of consciousness and experience.
Task: Restate Nisargadatta's statement using the word aliveness rather than awareness
ChatGPT: "Aliveness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without aliveness, but there can be aliveness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Aliveness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, aliveness is total, changeless, calm, and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience."
Question: So in this sense, when Nisargadatta says that as in deep sleep there is awareness but no consciousness he could be pointing to a state of being alive yet unconscious of being alive? Or, said in another way, there is the "I am" or "Beingness" but without the conscious awareness of "I am" or "Beingness"?
ChatGPT: Yes, that interpretation aligns with Nisargadatta's teachings. When he speaks of deep sleep as a state where there is aliveness but no consciousness, he is pointing to a profound aspect of our experience. In this state, there is a sense of existence, a fundamental "I am" or Beingness, but without the conscious awareness or recognition of this state.
This idea is often emphasized in Advaita Vedanta and other non-dual philosophies, where the essence of being (aliveness) is considered primary, even when not consciously experienced. It suggests that our true nature is beyond the fluctuations of consciousness and mental activity, existing as a silent, changeless background.
So, in Nisargadatta's perspective, deep sleep illustrates the presence of aliveness or Beingness without the active awareness or conscious recognition of it. This highlights the distinction between the fundamental state of aliveness and the relative nature of consciousness, which is always tied to specific contents or experiences.
Question: You said "In this state, there is a sense of existence, a fundamental "I am" or Beingness, but without the conscious awareness or recognition of this state." in what way is there a "sense of" anything when one is unconscious? Could it just be a case of pure beingness minus any sense of anything at all?
ChatGPT: You're correct in pointing out that the term "sense of existence" in the context of deep sleep might be misleading. In deep sleep, there is indeed a state of pure beingness or aliveness without any conscious awareness or recognition of that state. It's not that there is a "sense of existence" as we commonly understand it during waking consciousness, where there's a felt experience of self and the world. Instead, it's more accurate to describe it as a state of pure beingness without any subjective experience or awareness of that beingness.
In deep sleep, there is no mental activity, no thoughts, perceptions, or awareness of the external world or even of oneself as an individual entity. It's a state of profound rest where the usual boundaries of self and other, subject and object, dissolve. From this perspective, one could say it's pure beingness devoid of any sense or content, including a sense of existence as we know it in waking consciousness.
So, to rephrase, deep sleep represents a state of pure beingness or aliveness without any conscious awareness, recognition, or subjective experience associated with that beingness.
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Post by justlikeyou on May 7, 2024 13:38:01 GMT -5
Question: Can the principles and understanding of non-duality lead to the seeing through of any type of human personality?
ChatGPT: One of the key insights in non-duality is the recognition that the sense of a separate and fixed personality is a construct of the mind, a collection of thoughts, beliefs, memories, and conditioning that creates the illusion of a distinct and enduring self. Through practices like self-inquiry, meditation, and contemplation, individuals may come to realize that this sense of a separate self is not the ultimate truth but rather a mental fabrication.
Question: Is narcissism one of the many forms a human personality can take?
ChatGPT: Yes, narcissism is indeed one of the many forms that human personality can take.
Question: Is avoidance of acknowledging a mistake or error a narcissistic trait?
ChatGPT: Avoidance of acknowledging a mistake or error can be a trait associated with narcissism, especially when it stems from a need to maintain a facade of perfection, superiority, or infallibility.
Question: How well do narcissists handle being wrong when it is pointed out to them?
ChatGPT: Narcissists typically struggle with admitting they are wrong or accepting criticism. They may react defensively, deflect blame onto others, or minimize their mistakes to protect their self-image. Acknowledging fault can be challenging for them, as it may threaten their sense of superiority or perfection.
Task: Restate with more detail and more clinical.
ChatGPT: In clinical terms, narcissists often exhibit a pattern of behaviors known as narcissistic defenses when confronted with being wrong:
Denial: Narcissists may flatly deny any wrongdoing or refuse to acknowledge evidence that contradicts their beliefs or actions. This denial can be rigid and persistent, even in the face of overwhelming proof.
Projection: Instead of accepting responsibility, narcissists may project their faults onto others. They might accuse others of the same behavior they're being accused of, deflecting attention away from their own mistakes.
Minimization: When confronted with their errors, narcissists may downplay the significance of their actions or the impact they have had. They might say things like, "It's not a big deal" or "Everyone does this."
Blame-Shifting: Narcissists are skilled at shifting blame onto others or external circumstances. They might blame their upbringing, their environment, or specific people for their behavior, avoiding personal accountability.
Gaslighting: In more manipulative situations, narcissists may use gaslighting techniques to distort reality and make others doubt their own perceptions. They might say things like, "You're imagining things" or "That never happened."
These defensive mechanisms serve to protect the narcissist's fragile self-esteem and maintain their self-perceived superiority. They struggle with genuine introspection and self-awareness, which can make it challenging for them to acknowledge and learn from their mistakes.
Question: In what other ways will they minimize being discovered in error?
ChatGPT: Narcissists may employ several strategies to minimize being discovered in error beyond the ones previously mentioned:
Justification: They may provide justifications or rationalizations for their actions to make them seem acceptable or justified. For example, they might say, "I had to do it because..." or "It was the only option available."
Selective Memory: Narcissists may conveniently forget or distort details of the situation to suit their narrative. They might remember events in a way that portrays them in a positive light or omits their mistakes entirely.
Deflection with Compliments: When confronted with their errors, they might deflect criticism by offering insincere compliments or praise to distract from the issue at hand. For instance, they might say, "You're just jealous of my success" or "You're too sensitive."
Intellectualization: Some narcissists use intellectualization to distance themselves emotionally from their mistakes. They may analyze the situation in a detached, academic manner, focusing on abstract concepts rather than taking personal responsibility.
Victimization: In certain situations, narcissists may play the victim card to garner sympathy and avoid accountability. They might portray themselves as misunderstood or unfairly targeted, shifting the focus away from their errors.
Manipulative Apologies: When forced to acknowledge wrongdoing, narcissists may offer apologies that lack sincerity. These apologies are often manipulative, designed to appease others or manipulate them into forgiving or forgetting the issue.
These tactics serve the narcissist's need to maintain their self-image as flawless or superior while avoiding feelings of shame or inadequacy. They are adept at using various psychological strategies to minimize the impact of being discovered in error and protect their fragile ego.
Question: Nisargadatta suggested that meditation can have a profound transformative effect on the personality, did he not?
ChatGPT: Yes, Nisargadatta Maharaj did indeed suggest that meditation can have a profound transformative effect on the personality. In his teachings, he emphasized the importance of self-inquiry, mindfulness, and meditation as means to realize one's true nature and transcend the limitations of the egoic mind. Nisargadatta believed that regular meditation practice could lead to profound shifts in consciousness, clarity of perception, and a deeper understanding of the self and reality.
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Post by laughter on May 8, 2024 17:20:25 GMT -5
I agreed with tenka recently that some conditioning is bound to fall away after realizing the truth. I can't imagine how a narcissistic personality could still exist on the other side of the gateless gate, but then again, perhaps that's just a failure of imagination on my part.  .. even allowing for that, I'd discount the "realization status" of anyone exhibiting those sorts of characteristics. But these "DSM" type abstractions are always a matter of degree, and situational / relational (someone might be perfectly normal with certain specific exceptions based on topic or individual/group  ). |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2024 10:42:26 GMT -5
If sentience, or consciousness, is mysterious, then how can you say anything beyond "I don't know" to the question of whether some entity is conscious or sentient? Do you "know" for sure that humans will never create a system that is ... like a human? I agree that some of the technical people seem oblivious and full of hubris. But is it also hubris to think you know for sure in the other direction? Ie, that it cannot happen? A particular realization makes this obvious. It happened to Federico Fa grin as he contemplated how to design a sentient computer, but it can happen as a result of contemplating ymany other existential questions. People look at two trees, but never realize that the space between the two trees is also what the trees ARE and is also what is looking at the trees. As Pope wrote, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian Spring." The intelligence of THIS is incomprehensible to the intellect, but the intellect can be informed of that incomprehensibility by a realization of what lies beyond the capacity of the intellect. I read Federico's book, and he doesn't say that humans can't create a truly intelligent system. He said he thinks that our current computer systems won't do it, because they operate by the rules of classical mechanics [*] and a classical system (according to him) can't be truly intelligent or creative like a human. But he doesn't preclude the possibility of constructing an artificial system that taps into the quantum realm, in the same way that he thinks true human intelligence also does. [*] by classical, he means that while the circuits have quantum properties and effects, they don't effect the outputs -- the overall behavior of the circuit follows completely deterministic rules, of the macroscopic world, without quantum "weirdness". |
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Post by zendancer on May 10, 2024 11:21:55 GMT -5
A particular realization makes this obvious. It happened to Federico Fa grin as he contemplated how to design a sentient computer, but it can happen as a result of contemplating ymany other existential questions. People look at two trees, but never realize that the space between the two trees is also what the trees ARE and is also what is looking at the trees. As Pope wrote, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian Spring." The intelligence of THIS is incomprehensible to the intellect, but the intellect can be informed of that incomprehensibility by a realization of what lies beyond the capacity of the intellect. I read Federico's book, and he doesn't say that humans can't create a truly intelligent system. He said he thinks that our current computer systems won't do it, because they operate by the rules of classical mechanics [*] and a classical system (according to him) can't be truly intelligent or creative like a human. But he doesn't preclude the possibility of constructing an artificial system that taps into the quantum realm, in the same way that he thinks true human intelligence also does. [*] by classical, he means that while the circuits have quantum properties and effects, they don't effect the outputs -- the overall behavior of the circuit follows completely deterministic rules, of the macroscopic world, without quantum "weirdness". Humans have already created intelligent machines, and in the future they'll be super-intelligent compared to the existing machines. No argument there. I think Federico's point is that we'll never create a computer that is conscious. The issue is that there's nothing separate from All There Is, or THIS, and although THIS can do anything, can it create anything equivalent to Itself without being Itself--a thingless thing that is incomprehensible to the human mind and beyond space and time? Federico talks about seeing a light come out of his chest and realizing that the light was pure love and that all of reality was composed of that love and light. Any human who sees into the true nature of THIS will come away in a state of awe because it will be immediately obvious that no microscopic aspect of THIS will ever come close to creating anything remotely equivalent to THIS. I suspect that this has to be directly seen to be fully appreciated. It would be like asking, "Can a human create anything that is beyond space and time and not dependent upon anything physical?" A particular realization makes it obvious that awareness would still exist even if the manifested universe disappeared. How would a human create something like that? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2024 12:43:09 GMT -5
I read Federico's book, and he doesn't say that humans can't create a truly intelligent system. He said he thinks that our current computer systems won't do it, because they operate by the rules of classical mechanics [*] and a classical system (according to him) can't be truly intelligent or creative like a human. But he doesn't preclude the possibility of constructing an artificial system that taps into the quantum realm, in the same way that he thinks true human intelligence also does. [*] by classical, he means that while the circuits have quantum properties and effects, they don't effect the outputs -- the overall behavior of the circuit follows completely deterministic rules, of the macroscopic world, without quantum "weirdness". Humans have already created intelligent machines, and in the future they'll be super-intelligent compared to the existing machines. No argument there. I think Federico's point is that we'll never create a computer that is conscious. The issue is that there's nothing separate from All There Is, or THIS, and although THIS can do anything, can it create anything equivalent to Itself without being Itself--a thingless thing that is incomprehensible to the human mind and beyond space and time? Federico talks about seeing a light come out of his chest and realizing that the light was pure love and that all of reality was composed of that love and light. Any human who sees into the true nature of THIS will come away in a state of awe because it will be immediately obvious that no microscopic aspect of THIS will ever come close to creating anything remotely equivalent to THIS. I suspect that this has to be directly seen to be fully appreciated. It would be like asking, "Can a human create anything that is beyond space and time and not dependent upon anything physical?" A particular realization makes it obvious that awareness would still exist even if the manifested universe disappeared. How would a human create something like that? I'm pretty sure he thinks they can be conscious. I could dig up some quotes if you're interested, but they get a bit dense. It wouldn't be "creating" consciousness like creating another God or Universe or "THIS", as you say. Yes, I agree, that is impossible, or absurd. It would be more like the artificial system becomes connected somehow, like humans are, to this Ground of "quantum consciousness" or Awareness or Love or ??. In other words, humans might be able to build something "artificial" that has the same status of spirit/consciousness/intelligence as a "natural" human being. Perhaps you never denied that idea, that possibility. But there are people who do deny it -- they are convinced that humans have a kind of magic ingredient that no artificial system could ever have or participate in. |
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.. even allowing for that, I'd discount the "realization status" of anyone exhibiting those sorts of characteristics. But these "DSM" type abstractions are always a matter of degree, and situational / relational (someone might be perfectly normal with certain specific exceptions based on topic or individual/group 
).