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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2017 21:12:34 GMT -5
We're talking about happiness, not peace. Dualistic peace is useful when needed, but soon becomes boring. To have meaning in your life is one of the things that currently makes you happy. The cause may change but your goal is always to be happy. That's what interests you. I would say that any person who has a aim in life to be happy, does not know themselves well enough, nor life. So you don't Know yourself well enough?
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2017 21:19:13 GMT -5
Ultimately, what you do matters to everyone on the planet. Your freedom would open the door wider to freedom for all. That's the evolution of consciousness and why we honor the sages and not the seeker. Understanding is the drug that makes you happy. Lets not hear any more about how you're not interested in happiness. Second sentence is just not true. Every person has to face themselves. Others can aid you in this, others are necessary, but nobody can take one step for you, that has to be taken alone. Happiness is always inevitably, temporary. As is the high one gets from a drug. My point is it's not true you're not interested in happiness.
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2017 21:24:17 GMT -5
Ultimately, what you do matters to everyone on the planet. Your freedom would open the door wider to freedom for all. That's the evolution of consciousness and why we honor the sages and not the seeker. Understanding is the drug that makes you happy. Lets not hear any more about how you're not interested in happiness. Interconnectedness 101? Yup.
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2017 21:26:22 GMT -5
I would say that any person who has a aim in life to be happy, does not know themselves well enough, nor life. You want to be happy when you log out of this forum don't you? Or in, for that matter.
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Post by laughter on Oct 1, 2017 22:06:46 GMT -5
Well that's just too obvious. They should be required to read and respond to every post on this forum until they've learned the error of their ways. That's cruel and unusual punishment. Would you consider Siberian work camps as a more human alternative?? Such a softy. Ok, I'll go along with it, but only if they're required to memorize the complete works and correspondence of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Marx, Ouspenskii and Ann Rand while they're there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 2:02:14 GMT -5
Yes, ego (personality) is the fictitious consciousness, AKA imaginary I. I was surprised ZD disagreed. The dynamic forming of individuality is a necessary and healthy aspect of living, well. For a man of your age to be able to write that there is no maturation of individuality, is at best laughable..
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Post by Reefs on Oct 2, 2017 2:51:15 GMT -5
There's always culture involved in trying to relate understandings. Reefs pointed this out years ago about the koans. The baseball game koan is a timely example because there are a good percentage of adult American men these days with very different gender-role conditioning than in your generation. It's one of the ironies of Zen -- it's a culture supporting pointing toward transcending culture -- that some minds might make into a paradox. Yeah, in a way, those koan collections like The Blue Cliff Record or The Gateless Gate are basically a collection of inside jokes, haha.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2017 13:43:05 GMT -5
Yes, ego (personality) is the fictitious consciousness, AKA imaginary I. I was surprised ZD disagreed. The dynamic forming of individuality is a necessary and healthy aspect of living, well. For a man of your age to be able to write that there is no maturation of individuality, is at best laughable.. I've NEVER said that. Ego is the false sense of self. Our essence is our true individuality. Ego cannot evolve or grow, ego is a dead end. I've only been saying this for eight years here. Our essence is the living-growing part of us. Why do you dialogue with me if you can't remember my view?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2017 13:45:39 GMT -5
Second sentence is just not true. Every person has to face themselves. Others can aid you in this, others are necessary, but nobody can take one step for you, that has to be taken alone. Happiness is always inevitably, temporary. As is the high one gets from a drug. My point is it's not true you're not interested in happiness. I didn't say I wasn't interested in happiness, I said it wasn't my primary goal. Happiness happens, when you pursue the genuine.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2017 14:07:00 GMT -5
No, this is what I surmise from the "nondual" posting, here. ....If there is no doer, ever, if all "doing" is merely a part of the flow of the universe, what difference does the question make anyway? Even I remember having had this conversation before. I'm not understanding how you get from "there is no doer" to "it doesn't matter how life was lived". All the "nondualists" here have a double standard. OTOH they say, nobody does anything, the "person" is merely a flow of the whole universe (or some such). But then OTOH they say you have to live as if you are a doer. In one or the other there is delusion, nobody can believe both and live as if both are true. So it's not me you have a problem, it's yourself and the others. I'm saying the question makes no sense because it can't be both ways. You (plural) can't be striving to live in a certain way, IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE OR SEE IT TO BE TRUE THAT THERE ISN'T A ~DOING~ sELF. If you lived from both you would be living constantly in laughter's double-bind. (There is no doer, yet I am doing). {But yes, people live this way daily. There is an ~appliance~ that allows this, they're called buffers. They allow one to live in contradictions. They allow one to not-see the contradictions}. That's the (final) point I was making. The two (expressed above), together, must necessarily mean it can't matter how life is lived, because any doing-self is illusory, just isn't. And all this must necessarily mean the guy who killed 50+ and wounded 400+ people last night in LV was merely a natural flow of the universe at that moment. But somebody here is going to say, Oh, no!, no!, no!, that's not what we're saying (always happens when I raise this point). You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2017 14:10:38 GMT -5
I would say that any person who has a aim in life to be happy, does not know themselves well enough, nor life. So you don't Know yourself well enough? That's a reply to me from within your paradigm. Otherwise, your logic is obviously faulty. (Don't you see your logic is faulty?) .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 14:50:29 GMT -5
The dynamic forming of individuality is a necessary and healthy aspect of living, well. For a man of your age to be able to write that there is no maturation of individuality, is at best laughable.. I've NEVER said that. Ego is the false sense of self. Our essence is our true individuality. Ego cannot evolve or grow, ego is a dead end. I've only been saying this for eight years here. Our essence is the living-growing part of us. Why do you dialogue with me if you can't remember my view? Has your ego's view of itself evolved in the last eight years? Or let's write it another way.. does your ego understand itself more now than it did in 2009?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 2, 2017 15:48:25 GMT -5
I've NEVER said that. Ego is the false sense of self. Our essence is our true individuality. Ego cannot evolve or grow, ego is a dead end. I've only been saying this for eight years here. Our essence is the living-growing part of us. Why do you dialogue with me if you can't remember my view? Has your ego's view of itself evolved in the last eight years? Or let's write it another way.. does your ego understand itself more now than it did in 2009? Ego doesn't see, ego doesn't understand. (Ego is what is seen).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 16:16:50 GMT -5
Has your ego's view of itself evolved in the last eight years? Or let's write it another way.. does your ego understand itself more now than it did in 2009? Ego doesn't see, ego doesn't understand. (Ego is what is seen). If it doesn't see or understand then how can it be very Wile E? If it doesn't see or understand then how can it play the bait and switch? If it doesn't see or understand then how can it play hide and seek? If it doesn't see or understand then how can it play the shell game? If it doesn't see or understand then how can it play spiritual materialism with the best?
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Post by laughter on Oct 2, 2017 20:04:15 GMT -5
There's always culture involved in trying to relate understandings. Reefs pointed this out years ago about the koans. The baseball game koan is a timely example because there are a good percentage of adult American men these days with very different gender-role conditioning than in your generation. It's one of the ironies of Zen -- it's a culture supporting pointing toward transcending culture -- that some minds might make into a paradox. Yeah, in a way, those koan collections like The Blue Cliff Record or The Gateless Gate are basically a collection of inside jokes, haha. Of cosmic proportions.
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