Teacher Ratings

[larryyinger]

How does David Scoma appear so high in the ratings (at spiritualteachers.org) when other known and deserving people are nowhere to be found? Why no Bart Marshall for example? Why no Paul Constant or Michael Hall?
And I don't understand how newcomers like D. Scoma and L. Clair are suddenly more "invaluable" than Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti.
I understand that "subjectivity" is like an exclusive club, but if there are known recognized treasures, why would they be excluded altogether?

[zendancer]

Larry: Those of us who are familiar with a wide range of past and current teachers would probably have our own unique list of ratings. I, too, would place Tolle and Adyashanti in a higher category, but this is Shawn's website, and he explains his perspective concerning each teacher pretty well. Read his introduction to the site and then read a few of his reviews. Certain teachers resonate with each of us differently, and that affects how we respond to them. Most of us would agree that teachers like Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta should be given the highest rating possible and most of us would agree with Shawn concerning folks in the lowest rating. It's the teachers in between these two extremes that we would have less agreement about. Nevertheless, regardless of how various teachers are perceived and rated, this website gives people a chance to discuss them all, and also to discuss the path of non-duality. If you, yourself, were going to rate the top ten living teachers that you are familiar with, who would be on your list and why? Cheers and welcome to the board.

[larryyinger]

To Senior Member Zendancer
I’ve only been intensively reading, listening to, and (rather incredibly) personally meeting Advaita-type teachers for approx. 18 months. Exceptions are Eckhart Tolle’s books and Nisargadatta’s - I Am That beginning in 2001.
I don’t claim to have expertise, but I do have an intricate and long personal ‘story’ of practicing ‘spiritual work’. After reading hundreds of books and meeting+listening-to hundreds of “teachers” the best I can say is: “I know the “masters” when I see/read them.” Admittedly, this isn’t much and it’s completely subjective, but it’s all I got. If I was capable of “rating” teachers I’d have categories something like: (a) Sages, (b) Master Teachers, (c) Masters, (d) Teachers of Interest, and (e) Not Recommended.
Thankfully, since you only asked for my personal and ‘layperson’ list of top ten teachers …. here it is at the moment: Nisargadatta, Richard Rose, Alfred Pulyan, Bart Marshall, Bob Cergol, Bob Ferguson, Eckhart Tolle,
Art Ticknor, Sean Nevins, Adyashanti, F. Merrell-Wolff, Ramana Maharshi, and Douglas Harding. (Like the ‘Big Ten’ sports conference, I hope that math is not involved in this test.)

[larryyinger]

Second reply to Zendancer-

OOPs… something I forgot to reply to in my last post to Zendancer. Yes I did read the introduction and explanation to the Teacher site before posting my questions. However, I didn’t come up with an understanding. It could be me or it could be the explanation. Probably it’s me, but I still don’t understand (know) the answer(s) which is why I seek teachers in the first place.

[zendancer]

Larry: Good answer, but I think the same logic would apply to anyone else who made up a list of recommended teachers. It would depend upon who best resonated with each person and the evaluation (totally subjective) of which teachers were deemed most effective in pointing to the truth and waking people up.

If I were making up a list, I would probably only have two categories--recommended and not-recommended--and my recommended list would be twenty times longer than my not-recommended list. Whoa! What a list it would be! Most of the people you mentioned would be on the list plus Tony Parsons, Gangaji, Poonjaji, Seung Sahn, Dogen, Suzuki, Rinzai, Layman Pang, Obaku, Hui Ke, Seng Stan, Ikkyu, Hanshan, Wayne Liquorman, Sailor Bob, Ramesh Balsekar, Byron Katie, Ryokan, Rumi, Kabir, Tae Heng Su Nim, Jacobsen, Kornfield, Bankei, Pai-Chang, Thich Nhat Hanh, Achaan Chah, Meister Eckhart, and hundreds more. There are so many great teachers all pointing in their unique ways to the same thing. Sufi, Buddhist, Taoist, Advaita Vedantist, Mystical Christian, Kabirpanthi, Sikh, or those unaffiliated with any kind of tradition--all pointing to the unimaginable everyday isness of who we are beyond name and form.

So, why are the teachers on this website rated as they are? I hold up one finger in playful silence. You already understand. Cheers, and hopefully you'll find enough interesting stuff here to hang around and join the fun.

[zendancer]

Larry: Oops. I put "Hui-ke" (the second patriarch of Chinese Zen) on my list, but I meant to put "Hui-neng" (the sixth patriarch of Chinese Zen). I haven't read about Hui-ke's teaching. He was good enough to wake up Seng stan (the third patriarch), but I don't know if any of his teachings are recorded. Seng stan qualifies for the list simply because his "Verses on the Faith Mind," is one of the clearest expositions of the truth ever written. The translation by Richard Clarke is one of the best. Here are just a few lines excerpted from the treatise:

The more you talk and think about it,
the further astray you wander from the truth.
Stop talking and thinking,
and there is nothing you will not be able to know.
________________
If you wish to move in the One Way
do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas.
Indeed, to accept them fully
is identical with true Enlightenment.
______________________________
To seek Mind with the (discriminating) mind
is the greatest of all mistakes.
________________________
When dualities cease to exist
Oneness itself cannot exist.
To this ultimate finality
no law or description applies.
________________________
All is empty, clear, self-illuminating,
with no exertion of the mind's power.
Here thought, feeling, knowledge, and imagination
are of no value.
In this world of Suchness
there is neither self nor other-than-self.
_______________________________

Emptiness here, Emptiness there,
but the infinite universe stands
always before your eyes.
Infinitely large and infinitely small;
no difference, for definitions have vanished
and no boundaries are seen.
So too with Being and non-Being.
_________________________

Words!
The Way is beyond language,
for in it there is
no yesterday
no tomorrow
no today.

[lightmystic]

Wow, those verses were brilliant! Thanks for posting that ZD.

It reminds me of the clear pointing of two people not on the lists above: Pantanjali's yoga sutras as translated by Alistair Shearer) (that translation I would consider, in my opinion to be even as clear as what you have posted above ZD), and David Carse, whose has some very clear pointings on Advaita. Others may disagree, but I find his way of talking to be similar to Nisagadarta Maharaj, but even a bit clearer in my opinion...

[Shawn]

Hey Larry, I know you! What are you doing giving me grief?

I did add Bart to the site, but those other guys... what a shady crew.

[anonymous]

the guru is inside you,it's better to listen to your own intuition than to compare which teacher is better than others

[Micah Forsberg]

Why is Eckhart Tolle only rated at a three? He is very good. He has helped millions and has been at this work for decades. His teachings lead swiftly to the experience of the Divine. Stillness. It.