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Post by enigma on Apr 9, 2018 22:49:13 GMT -5
I know you know, but just to clarify in case there is any question, this wasn't a choice or request on my part at all. There are two main issues here, a minor one that isn't about violation of forum rules (he said/she said) and a major one that is about violation of forum rules (giraffing and potential crusading). The major issue is pretty clear-cut and doesn't involve you personally. But the minor issue is still a bit messy and it does involve you personally. There have been some misunderstandings on both ends (myself included). I hope I can clear that up later. But it will take some time for me to sort this all out and bring it back into chronological order. So stay tuned. I hope we can at least resolve the minor issue amicably. I'm going to be upfront here. I don't understand the whole giraffe issue, and repeating over and over that everybody has pointed them out to me and I must be this or that for continuing to giraffe is not helping me. It's going to be the reason for my banning and I'm never going to understand what you're talking about. That whole scenario strikes me as insane. You should be aware that in my mind I haven't done one blessed thing wrong, so as hard as I try, it seems unlikely that I'll be able to get with the rehab program. On the issue of avoiding the discussion, I need clarity. Am I to avoid the CC issue, or the subject of points of perception, or all of it including subtopics? I'm not sure what the goal is here. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 9, 2018 23:40:09 GMT -5
There are two main issues here, a minor one that isn't about violation of forum rules (he said/she said) and a major one that is about violation of forum rules (giraffing and potential crusading). The major issue is pretty clear-cut and doesn't involve you personally. But the minor issue is still a bit messy and it does involve you personally. There have been some misunderstandings on both ends (myself included). I hope I can clear that up later. But it will take some time for me to sort this all out and bring it back into chronological order. So stay tuned. I hope we can at least resolve the minor issue amicably. I'm going to be upfront here. I don't understand the whole giraffe issue, and repeating over and over that everybody has pointed them out to me and I must be this or that for continuing to giraffe is not helping me. It's going to be the reason for my banning and I'm never going to understand what you're talking about. That whole scenario strikes me as insane. You should be aware that in my mind I haven't done one blessed thing wrong, so as hard as I try, it seems unlikely that I'll be able to get with the rehab program. On the issue of avoiding the discussion, I need clarity. Am I to avoid the CC issue, or the subject of points of perception, or all of it including subtopics? I'm not sure what the goal is here. Okay, now it seems you've changed your mind and are choosing option #4? Yes, I'm well aware that you consider yourself above reproach and as the authority on all realization related issues. And it is precisely this high opinion of yourself that got you into trouble this time. That's why you can't see the giraffes. It also explains why you didn't choose option #1 or option #2 and are struggling with option #3 right now. So I agree, the way it looks right now, you are heading for a ban. The momentum is just too strong and your opinion of yourself too inflated in order to see WIBIGO. I'll address the avoiding issue later. That takes a little more time. ETA: And please stop calling those who disagree with you insane. It's not helping. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 10, 2018 10:13:53 GMT -5
I'm going to be upfront here. I don't understand the whole giraffe issue, and repeating over and over that everybody has pointed them out to me and I must be this or that for continuing to giraffe is not helping me. It's going to be the reason for my banning and I'm never going to understand what you're talking about. That whole scenario strikes me as insane. You should be aware that in my mind I haven't done one blessed thing wrong, so as hard as I try, it seems unlikely that I'll be able to get with the rehab program. On the issue of avoiding the discussion, I need clarity. Am I to avoid the CC issue, or the subject of points of perception, or all of it including subtopics? I'm not sure what the goal is here. Okay, now it seems you've changed your mind and are choosing option #4? Yes, I'm well aware that you consider yourself above reproach and as the authority on all realization related issues. And it is precisely this high opinion of yourself that got you into trouble this time. That's why you can't see the giraffes. It also explains why you didn't choose option #1 or option #2 and are struggling with option #3 right now. So I agree, the way it looks right now, you are heading for a ban. The momentum is just too strong and your opinion of yourself too inflated in order to see WIBIGO. I'll address the avoiding issue later. That takes a little more time. ETA: And please stop calling those who disagree with you insane. It's not helping.I didn't. I called the scenario insane. There's a rule against giraffing here. I'm not choosing option 4, I'm trying to understand what your issue is. I originated the giraffe label and I know what it means. It refers to reading things that were never written. It doesn't refer to offering an opinion that differs from what is said. The fact that my opinion disturbs you doesn't make it a giraffe. Refusing to surrender my opinions is also not giraffing. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 10, 2018 10:18:21 GMT -5
Okay, now it seems you've changed your mind and are choosing option #4? Yes, I'm well aware that you consider yourself above reproach and as the authority on all realization related issues. And it is precisely this high opinion of yourself that got you into trouble this time. That's why you can't see the giraffes. It also explains why you didn't choose option #1 or option #2 and are struggling with option #3 right now. So I agree, the way it looks right now, you are heading for a ban. The momentum is just too strong and your opinion of yourself too inflated in order to see WIBIGO. I'll address the avoiding issue later. That takes a little more time. ETA: And please stop calling those who disagree with you insane. It's not helping.I didn't. I called the scenario insane. There's a rule against giraffing here. I'm not choosing option 4, I'm trying to understand what your issue is. I originated the giraffe label and I know what it means. It refers to reading things that were never written. It doesn't refer to offering an opinion that differs from what is said. The fact that my opinion disturbs you doesn't make it a giraffe. Refusing to surrender my opinions is also not giraffing. Check your PM. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 10, 2018 18:56:36 GMT -5
I didn't. I called the scenario insane. There's a rule against giraffing here. I'm not choosing option 4, I'm trying to understand what your issue is. I originated the giraffe label and I know what it means. It refers to reading things that were never written. It doesn't refer to offering an opinion that differs from what is said. The fact that my opinion disturbs you doesn't make it a giraffe. Refusing to surrender my opinions is also not giraffing. Check your PM. I did. It doesn't address any of those issues. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 10, 2018 20:16:21 GMT -5
Okay, now it seems you've changed your mind and are choosing option #4? Yes, I'm well aware that you consider yourself above reproach and as the authority on all realization related issues. And it is precisely this high opinion of yourself that got you into trouble this time. That's why you can't see the giraffes. It also explains why you didn't choose option #1 or option #2 and are struggling with option #3 right now. So I agree, the way it looks right now, you are heading for a ban. The momentum is just too strong and your opinion of yourself too inflated in order to see WIBIGO. I'll address the avoiding issue later. That takes a little more time. ETA: And please stop calling those who disagree with you insane. It's not helping.I didn't. I called the scenario insane. There's a rule against giraffing here. I'm not choosing option 4, I'm trying to understand what your issue is. I originated the giraffe label and I know what it means. It refers to reading things that were never written. It doesn't refer to offering an opinion that differs from what is said. The fact that my opinion disturbs you doesn't make it a giraffe. Refusing to surrender my opinions is also not giraffing. Thanks for that, I never knew what giraffe meant. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 10, 2018 22:28:00 GMT -5
I didn't. I called the scenario insane. There's a rule against giraffing here. I'm not choosing option 4, I'm trying to understand what your issue is. I originated the giraffe label and I know what it means. It refers to reading things that were never written. It doesn't refer to offering an opinion that differs from what is said. The fact that my opinion disturbs you doesn't make it a giraffe. Refusing to surrender my opinions is also not giraffing. Thanks for that, I never knew what giraffe meant. I thought everybody knew. It's typically an unconscious process of seeing what one wants to see rather than seeing what is there (mistaking a tree for a giraffe). It happens here when one is too motivated to find errors in another's argument. Since it is unconscious, it really makes no sense to make a rule that giraffing isn't allowed. The giraffer would not be able to follow that rule, and the accuser would not know if he was the giraffer mistakenly seeing somebody giraffing. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 11, 2018 4:54:01 GMT -5
Thanks for that, I never knew what giraffe meant. I thought everybody knew. It's typically an unconscious process of seeing what one wants to see rather than seeing what is there (mistaking a tree for a giraffe). It happens here when one is too motivated to find errors in another's argument. Since it is unconscious, it really makes no sense to make a rule that giraffing isn't allowed. The giraffer would not be able to follow that rule, and the accuser would not know if he was the giraffer mistakenly seeing somebody giraffing. That's why I say check it with the archive. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 11, 2018 4:58:32 GMT -5
I did. It doesn't address any of those issues. Well, then we are basically done here and I've been just wasting my time. Thanks for letting me know. And don't slam the door on your way out!  |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 11, 2018 21:47:29 GMT -5
All,
I would appreciate it in general if everyone would stay out of ongoing moderation issues that don't concern you directly. Especially, please don't contact me via PM telling me about your opinions on the matter. Keep in mind that what's coming out in public is only half the story and in such a case, optics are usually worse and the situation seems more grave than it actually is in reality.
We are negotiating. It's just none of anyone's business. There's no need to go into drama mode. There are still a lot of misunderstandings that have to be cleared out and I feel that these are better discussed in private because I realize that discussing this matter publicly has been playing a big part in creating most of these misunderstandings. So let me make this clear: No one is getting banned today or tomorrow. And if Enigma should survive this week then he'll probably never get banned. At the moment the ball is in his court though. Which means the pace and direction this is going to take is in his control.
So please continue with your regular conversation.
R
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