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Post by alertpeaceeternal on Feb 4, 2017 17:36:31 GMT -5
There's plenty of traditional names for it. Brahman, the Tao, That, the Unborn, the Christ, give it whatever name you like. As long as it's understood that we are naming the unameable for the sake of conversation, rather than actually defining it. Because it's indefinable. Anything that is precisely definable isn't That. right, The unborn is my fave name for it. Why? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 17:44:05 GMT -5
right, The unborn is my fave name for it. Why? It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. |
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Post by alertpeaceeternal on Feb 4, 2017 17:57:52 GMT -5
It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 18:06:52 GMT -5
It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. Thanks. de nada, the unborn is very potent, right now just think of who you are as the unborn? It can put you in the witness state with only a thought. |
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Post by alertpeaceeternal on Feb 4, 2017 18:09:17 GMT -5
de nada, the unborn is very potent, right now just think of who you are as the unborn? It can put you in the witness state with only a thought. Y A W N Okay. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 18:40:47 GMT -5
de nada, the unborn is very potent, right now just think of who you are as the unborn? It can put you in the witness state with only a thought. Y A W N Okay. Thanks. What! No yawn, it was Niz and Apte The unborn Niz that gave me my 3 day CC experience where I lost totally my own identity. Powerful stuff man. going to make some chai , now |
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Post by alertpeaceeternal on Feb 4, 2017 19:23:46 GMT -5
What! No yawn, it was Niz and Apte The unborn Niz that gave me my 3 day CC experience where I lost totally my own identity. Powerful stuff man. going to make some chai , now If Sri Niz has given you just 3 days, then that's what he thought would be good enough for you. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2017 21:19:23 GMT -5
You don't equate I Am of the first paragraph with I Am in the second paragraph? Why wouldn't you? (If you did, this is just incorrect, if you didn't, I would suggest for the second paragraph you use I am [small a] instead of I Am). Third paragraph. The "I"-thought is imaginary, based on an illusion. So for me, I would merely say the "I"-thought collapses (meaning it doesn't collapse into the heart, the heart being more-real, not imaginary. I would even say the heart is real). Otherwise, 3rd paragraph, essentially correct. And: why will I not define identification (yet)? (?from your post above; and [see my post] below). Patience. You do not want to follow any clues? (Already gave at least one, saying so, which you totally disregarded. edit sdp, didn't use the word clue, used especially, but just now added clue). Another, in the next to last sentence, why does identification fail to occur? Words and phrases have different meanings depending on the context. The Mahavakya "I Am That" is not a way of giving the "I"-thought something ultimate to identify with. It is a reference to our true nature being That, the infinite and indefinable formless Self, not an entity or person or form. So it is a deliberate break from the conventions of identity and self, even in language. In many Advaitic teachings, such as Ramana's or Nisargadatta's, the "I Am" is a reference to the "I"-thought, so I am referring to that usage. There's a yogic process by which the "I"-thought does literally fall into the heart on the right if it has become sufficiently detached from identification with vasanas and form. Imaginary does not mean "non-existent", it merely means not understood from its root source, and thus improperly seen and experienced, like an optical illusion. The "I"-thought is a reflection in the mind of an illusory contraction in the heart. I consider your middle paragraph simply wrong. Please supply a quote. (Any thought is a mere copy, an abstraction or a representation. For Niz I Am is a living 'real' something). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 4, 2017 21:26:53 GMT -5
It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. That was Zen Master Bankei's name for It, one bad ass no nonsense Master. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 21:30:41 GMT -5
Words and phrases have different meanings depending on the context. The Mahavakya "I Am That" is not a way of giving the "I"-thought something ultimate to identify with. It is a reference to our true nature being That, the infinite and indefinable formless Self, not an entity or person or form. So it is a deliberate break from the conventions of identity and self, even in language. In many Advaitic teachings, such as Ramana's or Nisargadatta's, the "I Am" is a reference to the "I"-thought, so I am referring to that usage. There's a yogic process by which the "I"-thought does literally fall into the heart on the right if it has become sufficiently detached from identification with vasanas and form. Imaginary does not mean "non-existent", it merely means not understood from its root source, and thus improperly seen and experienced, like an optical illusion. The "I"-thought is a reflection in the mind of an illusory contraction in the heart. I consider your middle paragraph simply wrong. Please supply a quote. (Any thought is a mere copy, an abstraction or a representation. For Niz I Am is a living 'real' something). Conradg is 100% correct. |
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Post by alertpeaceeternal on Feb 4, 2017 21:31:47 GMT -5
It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. That was Zen Master Bankei's name for It, one bad ass no nonsense Master. I wonder why and what for even companiero Niz called it the unborn.  Sorry. I was just laughing about a joke that just popped in. "You're the son/daughter of a barren woman". (Niz) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 21:40:22 GMT -5
It's perfect and a long story, I have a amazing history with that phrase. My own realizations came directly from the unborn. That was Zen Master Bankei's name for It, one bad ass no nonsense Master. Thank you sdp do you know of any books that have his writings? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 5, 2017 15:18:34 GMT -5
I consider your middle paragraph simply wrong. Please supply a quote. (Any thought is a mere copy, an abstraction or a representation. For Niz I Am is a living 'real' something). Conradg is 100% correct. For Niz, I Am refers to I-thought? OK, I will go back and look. Thanks. (But it does not for Gurdjieff). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 5, 2017 15:25:10 GMT -5
That was Zen Master Bankei's name for It, one bad ass no nonsense Master. Thank you sdp do you know of any books that have his writings? Yes. The Unborn by Norman Waddell is very good. (I also bought the Peter Haskell book (see in link below), but have not gotten through it, yet. It covers the same territory (I think I remember correctly). Zen Master Bankei was the Zen Master's Zen Master. He didn't mind telling people: You are just ****ing wrong (my words). Or, I'm sorry dude, you are not enlightened. And he was the people's Zen Master also, preached to anybody and everybody. Felt almost anyone was a hairs breadth from discovering the unborn. He traveled a lot and in the process discovered a lot of sham Zen "Masters". He is my favorite Zen Master. Basically, he kicked a$$. www.amazon.com/Unborn-Teachings-Master-Bankei-1622-1693/dp/0865475954 |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 5, 2017 15:36:28 GMT -5
That was Zen Master Bankei's name for It, one bad ass no nonsense Master. I wonder why and what for even companiero Niz called it the unborn. Sorry. I was just laughing about a joke that just popped in. "You're the son/daughter of a barren woman". (Niz) A curious ~parallel story~ in the Old Testament. In Genesis Abraham came across this curious character Mel-chi-zadek (Melchizedek). He is described as, having neither father nor mother, didn't die, wasn't born. (He is also spoken of in the Psalms and the NT book Hebrews, where it is said: Jesus(Messiah/Christ/Annointed) is a Priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek). |
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