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Post by bluey on Feb 8, 2017 18:27:13 GMT -5
I don't doubt for a second that G was a man of integrity and based his stuff on direct experience. So you're saying that G had direct experience of beingness or whatever after the body had expired? No, I don't think so. Everything we know of his stuff is from when his body was still ticking, right? Becoming stabilized in what remains in deep sleep, nirvalkpa samadhi, after the I Am is "axed," is proposed to be the test for 'surviving the death of the body.' I don't dispute that there are lots of practices and models and philosophy bound up in that proposal. I'm just wondering what it is based on other than speculation. It's an age-old question, answered by the religious and believers and atheists, and wondered about by agnostics. I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. He talked of speaking 18 languages there's no evidence to back this up. He talked of meeting a brotherhood who looked after humanity the Sarmoung monestry which he said taught him mysteries from 2,500 bc but he was never specific about on their whereabouts. When questioned by ouspensky on this he said he travelled with a group of specialists but he did not vouchsafe their names. What's interesting is when gurdjieff managed to get transport from the provincial government by spreading a rumour and from Bennetts account where gurdjieff spread a rumour that he knew of rich deposits of gold and platinum in the Caucasian mountains. Bennett wrote. In all this, he was also demonstrating to his pupils the power of suggestion and the ease with people could be made to believe any old tale. ...... this is gurdjieff. The mystic salesman. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 8, 2017 18:40:14 GMT -5
I don't doubt for a second that G was a man of integrity and based his stuff on direct experience. So you're saying that G had direct experience of beingness or whatever after the body had expired? No, I don't think so. Everything we know of his stuff is from when his body was still ticking, right? Becoming stabilized in what remains in deep sleep, nirvalkpa samadhi, after the I Am is "axed," is proposed to be the test for 'surviving the death of the body.' I don't dispute that there are lots of practices and models and philosophy bound up in that proposal. I'm just wondering what it is based on other than speculation. It's an age-old question, answered by the religious and believers and atheists, and wondered about by agnostics. I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. Yes, I hate Gurdjieff. But ATST, I love Gurdjieff. (I would not wish on anyone what I have been through the last forty years, but ATST I would not trade them, and now, for ANYTHING). Ouspensky definitely distanced himself from Gurdjieff (but not the teaching). Why do you say Bennett distanced himself from Gurdjieff? About the middle 20's Bennett was faced with a choice, he could stay with Gurdjieff, or go do certain life-stuff he felt it was necessary to do (but it was really a choice). Gurdjieff told him then, if you stay with me two years, then you can work alone (IOW, without external directions). As always Bennett had to decide, he was completely free to decide. He decided to leave Gurdjieff. Then twenty years later after ~life~ happening to Bennett ("Life is one darn thing after another, and then you die"), after WWII, in Paris, Bennett came back to Gurdjieff. He worked very closely with Gurdjieff until Gurdjieff's death in 1949. He had places in England where he worked with people. But he did throw in some other teachings, Subud for one, so he was not a Gurdjieff "purist", so to speak. But I don't think you can say Bennett left Gurdjieff. Metaphorically, the only way to get ~stronger~ is by opposing your own muscles, you increase the "weight" you are lifting. IOW, opposition is necessary, this is called second force or passive force or negative force. The other two primary forces are 1st force, active-positive force and 3rd force, neutralizing-reconciling-balancing force. Gurdjieff as teacher knew when to bring which force to the student, for their advancement. Ouspensky never understood this, until maybe the last days of his life (account given by Rodney Collin, his student). .............. In Witness (autobiography), Bennett gives the account of meeting Gurdjieff again after 20 years. He said Gurdjieff picked up the conversation virtually precisely where it had been discontinued 20 years earlier. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 8, 2017 18:56:10 GMT -5
I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. He talked of speaking 18 languages there's no evidence to back this up. He talked of meeting a brotherhood who looked after humanity the Sarmoung monestry which he said taught him mysteries from 2,500 bc but he was never specific about on their whereabouts. When questioned by ouspensky on this he said he travelled with a group of specialists but he did not vouchsafe their names. What's interesting is when gurdjieff managed to get transport from the provincial government by spreading a rumour and from Bennetts account where gurdjieff spread a rumour that he knew of rich deposits of gold and platinum in the Caucasian mountains. Bennett wrote. In all this, he was also demonstrating to his pupils the power of suggestion and the ease with people could be made to believe any old tale. ...... this is gurdjieff. The mystic salesman. In the ~old~ days a would-be (Zen) student would be kept waiting outside before being let in, IOW, they had to prove that they really wanted to be a student. Huike asked to be the student of Bodhidharma, who said no. Then the story is told that Huike cut off an arm and presented it to Bodhidharma as proof that he was sincere in wanting to be a student. So he was then accepted as student and eventually became the second Patriarch of Zen. In life each individual has to choose their own path. This is directed by your goals, your aim. The hardest thing in life is to be sincere with oneself. And eventually you will be faced with values, what is it you value most in life and what are you willing to give up to attain that? All this boils down to the question, Who am I? self is the greatest obstacle (small s self). Yes, Gurdjieff deliberately offended people (that is, prospective students or other people who wanted something from him). But if you knew he had something you needed, you would not be put off. But ATST he was exceptionally kind to ordinary people, especially children. |
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Post by bluey on Feb 8, 2017 19:07:06 GMT -5
I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. Yes, I hate Gurdjieff. But ATST, I love Gurdjieff. Ouspensky definitely distanced himself from Gurdjieff (but not the teaching). Why do you say Bennett distanced himself from Gurdjieff? About the middle 20's Bennett was faced with a choice, he could stay with Gurdjieff, or go do certain life-stuff he felt it was necessary to do (but it was really a choice). Gurdjieff told him then, if you stay with me two years, then you can work alone (IOW, without external directions). As always Bennett had to decide, he was completely free to decide. He decided to leave Gurdjieff. Then twenty years later after ~life~ happening to Bennett ("Life is one darn thing after another, and then you die"), after WWII, in Paris, Bennett came back to Gurdjieff. He worked very closely with Gurdjieff until Gurdjieff's death in 1949. He had places in England where he worked with people. But he did throw in some other teachings, Subud for one, so he was not a Gurdjieff "purist", so to speak. But I don't think you can say Bennett left Gurdjieff. Metaphorically, the only way to get ~stronger~ is by opposing your own muscles, you increase the "weight" you are lifting. IOW, opposition is necessary, this is called second force or passive force or negative force. The other two primary forces are 1st force, active-positive force and 3rd force, neutralizing-reconciling-balancing force. Gurdjieff as teacher knew when to bring which force to the student, for their advancement. Ouspensky never understood this, until maybe the last days of his life (account given by Rodney Collin, his student). .............. In Witness (autobiography), Bennett gives the account of meeting Gurdjieff again after 20 years. He said Gurdjieff picked up the conversation virtually precisely where it had been discontinued 20 years earlier. Bennett was a close disciple of ouspensky. They both questioned gurdjieffs accounts his travels. Bennett frequently saw gurdjieff in his last two years but distanced himself to pursue the teachings of idries shah. Many students ended up as psychiatric patients from both gurdjieff and Bennetts pursuit of what they termed the work. Gurdjieff was the Andrew Cohen of his times. |
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Post by bluey on Feb 8, 2017 19:10:53 GMT -5
He talked of speaking 18 languages there's no evidence to back this up. He talked of meeting a brotherhood who looked after humanity the Sarmoung monestry which he said taught him mysteries from 2,500 bc but he was never specific about on their whereabouts. When questioned by ouspensky on this he said he travelled with a group of specialists but he did not vouchsafe their names. What's interesting is when gurdjieff managed to get transport from the provincial government by spreading a rumour and from Bennetts account where gurdjieff spread a rumour that he knew of rich deposits of gold and platinum in the Caucasian mountains. Bennett wrote. In all this, he was also demonstrating to his pupils the power of suggestion and the ease with people could be made to believe any old tale. ...... this is gurdjieff. The mystic salesman. In the ~old~ days a would-be (Zen) student would be kept waiting outside before being let in, IOW, they had to prove that they really wanted to be a student. Huike asked to be the student of Bodhidharma, who said no. Then the story is told that Huike cut off an arm and presented it to Bodhidharma as proof that he was sincere in wanting to be a student. So he was then accepted as student and eventually became the second Patriarch of Zen. In life each individual has to choose their own path. This is directed by your goals, your aim. The hardest thing in life is to be sincere with oneself. And eventually you will be faced with values, what is it you value most in life and what are you willing to give up to attain that? All this boils down to the question, Who am I? self is the greatest obstacle (small s self). Yes, Gurdjieff deliberately offended people (that is, prospective students or other people who wanted something from him). But if you knew he had something you needed, you would not be put off. But ATST he was exceptionally kind to ordinary people, especially children. I don't feel ouspensky would agree, he knew gurdjieff had his faults. Awakened yes but disliked the man he was. Why he distanced himself from him. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 9, 2017 9:28:02 GMT -5
Yes, I hate Gurdjieff. But ATST, I love Gurdjieff. Ouspensky definitely distanced himself from Gurdjieff (but not the teaching). Why do you say Bennett distanced himself from Gurdjieff? About the middle 20's Bennett was faced with a choice, he could stay with Gurdjieff, or go do certain life-stuff he felt it was necessary to do (but it was really a choice). Gurdjieff told him then, if you stay with me two years, then you can work alone (IOW, without external directions). As always Bennett had to decide, he was completely free to decide. He decided to leave Gurdjieff. Then twenty years later after ~life~ happening to Bennett ("Life is one darn thing after another, and then you die"), after WWII, in Paris, Bennett came back to Gurdjieff. He worked very closely with Gurdjieff until Gurdjieff's death in 1949. He had places in England where he worked with people. But he did throw in some other teachings, Subud for one, so he was not a Gurdjieff "purist", so to speak. But I don't think you can say Bennett left Gurdjieff. Metaphorically, the only way to get ~stronger~ is by opposing your own muscles, you increase the "weight" you are lifting. IOW, opposition is necessary, this is called second force or passive force or negative force. The other two primary forces are 1st force, active-positive force and 3rd force, neutralizing-reconciling-balancing force. Gurdjieff as teacher knew when to bring which force to the student, for their advancement. Ouspensky never understood this, until maybe the last days of his life (account given by Rodney Collin, his student). .............. In Witness (autobiography), Bennett gives the account of meeting Gurdjieff again after 20 years. He said Gurdjieff picked up the conversation virtually precisely where it had been discontinued 20 years earlier. Bennett was a close disciple of ouspensky. They both questioned gurdjieffs accounts his travels. Bennett frequently saw gurdjieff in his last two years but distanced himself to pursue the teachings of idries shah. Many students ended up as psychiatric patients from both gurdjieff and Bennetts pursuit of what they termed the work. Gurdjieff was the Andrew Cohen of his times. I'm glad for you that you can have your own opinion. Yes, I already said Bennett always had an interest in Sufism. And yes, I'm sure there are people who ended up as psychiatric patients, that's why I mention Spiritual Emergency when the subject of 'the dangers of the path' come up here. In work and generally any true spiritual practice, you alter your own psychology, and yes, many if not most people are not prepared for this. In this work I have already mentioned there is a stage when moving from personality to essence, there is a very great possibility one cannot function during this period. But people are warned of these things, before they might occur. You might not win if you run 'in the race', but you cannot win if you don't run (metaphorically speaking). We have to calculate risks, and second force (opposition). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 9, 2017 9:33:11 GMT -5
In the ~old~ days a would-be (Zen) student would be kept waiting outside before being let in, IOW, they had to prove that they really wanted to be a student. Huike asked to be the student of Bodhidharma, who said no. Then the story is told that Huike cut off an arm and presented it to Bodhidharma as proof that he was sincere in wanting to be a student. So he was then accepted as student and eventually became the second Patriarch of Zen. In life each individual has to choose their own path. This is directed by your goals, your aim. The hardest thing in life is to be sincere with oneself. And eventually you will be faced with values, what is it you value most in life and what are you willing to give up to attain that? All this boils down to the question, Who am I? self is the greatest obstacle (small s self). Yes, Gurdjieff deliberately offended people (that is, prospective students or other people who wanted something from him). But if you knew he had something you needed, you would not be put off. But ATST he was exceptionally kind to ordinary people, especially children. I don't feel ouspensky would agree, he knew gurdjieff had his faults. Awakened yes but disliked the man he was. Why he distanced himself from him. Ouspensky would not agree with what? All of that is pretty clear cut. And Ouspensky did not leave Gurdjieff just because he did not like him. But find and read the account of the last few days of Ouspensky's life (this again, by one of his primary students, Rodney Collin). He realized that he had not achieved his aim. That's a very sad thing to realize when you know you life is ending very shortly. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Feb 9, 2017 10:22:26 GMT -5
I don't doubt for a second that G was a man of integrity and based his stuff on direct experience. So you're saying that G had direct experience of beingness or whatever after the body had expired? No, I don't think so. Everything we know of his stuff is from when his body was still ticking, right? Becoming stabilized in what remains in deep sleep, nirvalkpa samadhi, after the I Am is "axed," is proposed to be the test for 'surviving the death of the body.' I don't dispute that there are lots of practices and models and philosophy bound up in that proposal. I'm just wondering what it is based on other than speculation. It's an age-old question, answered by the religious and believers and atheists, and wondered about by agnostics. I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. did not know that! |
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Post by maxdprophet on Feb 9, 2017 10:25:10 GMT -5
I don't feel gurdjieff was a man of integrity. He impregnated many of his students, lied much of the time. Why I feel Ouspensky and Bennett distanced themselves from him. He was a salesman mystic. Don't believe the hype. He talked of speaking 18 languages there's no evidence to back this up. He talked of meeting a brotherhood who looked after humanity the Sarmoung monestry which he said taught him mysteries from 2,500 bc but he was never specific about on their whereabouts. When questioned by ouspensky on this he said he travelled with a group of specialists but he did not vouchsafe their names. What's interesting is when gurdjieff managed to get transport from the provincial government by spreading a rumour and from Bennetts account where gurdjieff spread a rumour that he knew of rich deposits of gold and platinum in the Caucasian mountains. Bennett wrote. In all this, he was also demonstrating to his pupils the power of suggestion and the ease with people could be made to believe any old tale. ...... this is gurdjieff. The mystic salesman. sounds like my current president  |
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Post by bluey on Feb 9, 2017 16:37:24 GMT -5
Bennett was a close disciple of ouspensky. They both questioned gurdjieffs accounts his travels. Bennett frequently saw gurdjieff in his last two years but distanced himself to pursue the teachings of idries shah. Many students ended up as psychiatric patients from both gurdjieff and Bennetts pursuit of what they termed the work. Gurdjieff was the Andrew Cohen of his times. I'm glad for you that you can have your own opinion. Yes, I already said Bennett always had an interest in Sufism. And yes, I'm sure there are people who ended up as psychiatric patients, that's why I mention Spiritual Emergency when the subject of 'the dangers of the path' come up here. In work and generally any true spiritual practice, you alter your own psychology, and yes, many if not most people are not prepared for this. In this work I have already mentioned there is a stage when moving from personality to essence, there is a very great possibility one cannot function during this period. But people are warned of these things, before they might occur. You might not win if you run 'in the race', but you cannot win if you don't run (metaphorically speaking). We have to calculate risks, and second force (opposition). Yes that's a fair point stardust. It's also the role of any sage to point out the trappings of past and present sages and where they may not serve. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 9, 2017 19:14:16 GMT -5
I'm glad for you that you can have your own opinion. Yes, I already said Bennett always had an interest in Sufism. And yes, I'm sure there are people who ended up as psychiatric patients, that's why I mention Spiritual Emergency when the subject of 'the dangers of the path' come up here. In work and generally any true spiritual practice, you alter your own psychology, and yes, many if not most people are not prepared for this. In this work I have already mentioned there is a stage when moving from personality to essence, there is a very great possibility one cannot function during this period. But people are warned of these things, before they might occur. You might not win if you run 'in the race', but you cannot win if you don't run (metaphorically speaking). We have to calculate risks, and second force (opposition). Yes that's a fair point stardust. It's also the role of any sage to point out the trappings of past and present sages and where they may not serve. Sure, no problem. But Gurdjieff was always concerned more for the teaching than the Teacher (himself). Obstacles are a necessary part of the teaching. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 10, 2017 10:11:23 GMT -5
I'm glad for you that you can have your own opinion. Yes, I already said Bennett always had an interest in Sufism. And yes, I'm sure there are people who ended up as psychiatric patients, that's why I mention Spiritual Emergency when the subject of 'the dangers of the path' come up here. In work and generally any true spiritual practice, you alter your own psychology, and yes, many if not most people are not prepared for this. In this work I have already mentioned there is a stage when moving from personality to essence, there is a very great possibility one cannot function during this period. But people are warned of these things, before they might occur. You might not win if you run 'in the race', but you cannot win if you don't run (metaphorically speaking). We have to calculate risks, and second force (opposition). Yes that's a fair point stardust. It's also the role of any sage to point out the trappings of past and present sages and where they may not serve.
"October 30, 1949...I shall never be able to describe the noble beauty of his dead face. ...Jane's English group had arrived in the night, direct from the gare. At four a.m. the French group took over. Streams of people came and went all night, as they did all day. I can't imagine what the American Hospital thought of all this, the hundreds of pilgrims who came and went away, all through the icy, frosty night.
Tuesday. I'm just back from the chapel. I sat by his side, near his face, for two hours. A small choir came from the Russian church and sang the responses. The chief priest in the old tradition-robe, silver cross and a chain, long black hair and beard, liquid black eyes and honey voice. ...Gurdjieff's face today was greyer and the skin is tighter over the immense intelligence of his skull. Wednesday. Un froid de loup. Oh, never to see that smile again, never to hear him say-well, no matter what... The mise en biere. I couldn't quite go to the hospital to see him put into the box... I went to the Russian church at four and waited there til nearly six before he was brought. ...The church was crowded. Not a sound ever issues from any gathering of his people-neither a footstep, a cough, a rustle or a breath. A remarkable quality of silence which is so rare as to be noted as unique.
Last day. This morning at eleven-thirty the high mass at the Russian cathedral. There had been no veille permitted last night, so he had been alone until the church opened. Candles, flowers, the voices of five white-and-gold robed priests, a cantor with a divine breaking voice. How beautiful is the Russian language! The church was packed-not only with those we know, but by hundreds of his followers whom we never saw, whom I had never seen in all my years near him. ...for an hour everyone passed by his coffin, one by one, from the right. Each mourner, streaming with tears, made a genuflection at his head, stepped up to the icon at his feet, kissed it, and walked to the left. Each, un-self-conscious, took his or her private and sorrowful farewell to him with a ceremonious simplicity that tore one's heart open even wider than before, if possible. ...The crowds stood along the street to watch him brought out and put in the great funeral carriage... The family rode with him. The hundreds of others rode behind in the cortege in many private cars and four enormous autobuses. The streets were jammed, closed to traffic for blocks around the Russian church, and other crowds gathered to watch the spectacle. I went with some of the rich silent English, old followers of Ouspensky's. (who had died two years previously. After Ouspensky died, many asked Madame Ouspensky {who had always remained a student of Gurdjieff}, who lived at Franklin Farms, NJ, what tf do we do now? Madame Ouspensky told them, go to Gurdjieff in Paris. And it was Madame Ouspensky who sent the [then unpublished] manuscript to Gurdjieff, Fragments of an Unknown Teaching, which he approved, called it objective reporting, and approved publication of it, which the publishers called, In Search of the Miraculous. It was published virtually simultaneously with Gurdjieff's own All and Everything: First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, added note sdp) ...we walked by the hundreds through the cemetery gates, following him to the family plot. I saw the grave open...the porters put him down into it. A great sigh came from the people-the only sound they had made, when they were together, since he died. The priest came to the rescue with his chanting. Later everyone passed by the terrible hole... It was over. He had disappeared from us forever. Later. Two days before he was taken to the hospital he called in four people who happened to be sitting in the salon through the night and just looked at them fro a long time, saying not one word. They believed he was saying good-bye. The priest at the Russian church stated that there has never been such a funeral before, except Chaliapin's; that he had never seen such mass grief, or such a concentration of attitude on the part of the mourners. Even the undertaker who had never seen Gurdjieff before he saw him dead, broke down at the grave and wept". ........ The Unknowable Gurdjieff, MA, 1962 |
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Post by bluey on Feb 10, 2017 11:30:11 GMT -5
Yes that's a fair point stardust. It's also the role of any sage to point out the trappings of past and present sages and where they may not serve.
"October 30, 1949...I shall never be able to describe the noble beauty of his dead face. ...Jane's English group had arrived in the night, direct from the gare. At four a.m. the French group took over. Streams of people came and went all night, as they did all day. I can't imagine what the American Hospital thought of all this, the hundreds of pilgrims who came and went away, all through the icy, frosty night.
Tuesday. I'm just back from the chapel. I sat by his side, near his face, for two hours. A small choir came from the Russian church and sang the responses. The chief priest in the old tradition-robe, silver cross and a chain, long black hair and beard, liquid black eyes and honey voice. ...Gurdjieff's face today was greyer and the skin is tighter over the immense intelligence of his skull. Wednesday. Un froid de loup. Oh, never to see that smile again, never to hear him say-well, no matter what... The mise en biere. I couldn't quite go to the hospital to see him put into the box... I went to the Russian church at four and waited there til nearly six before he was brought. ...The church was crowded. Not a sound ever issues from any gathering of his people-neither a footstep, a cough, a rustle or a breath. A remarkable quality of silence which is so rare as to be noted as unique.
Last day. This morning at eleven-thirty the high mass at the Russian cathedral. There had been no veille permitted last night, so he had been alone until the church opened. Candles, flowers, the voices of five white-and-gold robed priests, a cantor with a divine breaking voice. How beautiful is the Russian language! The church was packed-not only with those we know, but by hundreds of his followers whom we never saw, whom I had never seen in all my years near him. ...for an hour everyone passed by his coffin, one by one, from the right. Each mourner, streaming with tears, made a genuflection at his head, stepped up to the icon at his feet, kissed it, and walked to the left. Each, un-self-conscious, took his or her private and sorrowful farewell to him with a ceremonious simplicity that tore one's heart open even wider than before, if possible. ...The crowds stood along the street to watch him brought out and put in the great funeral carriage... The family rode with him. The hundreds of others rode behind in the cortege in many private cars and four enormous autobuses. The streets were jammed, closed to traffic for blocks around the Russian church, and other crowds gathered to watch the spectacle. I went with some of the rich silent English, old followers of Ouspensky's. (who had died two years previously. After Ouspensky died, many asked Madame Ouspensky {who had always remained a student of Gurdjieff}, who lived at Franklin Farms, NJ, what tf do we do now? Madame Ouspensky told them, go to Gurdjieff in Paris. And it was Madame Ouspensky who sent the [then unpublished] manuscript to Gurdjieff, Fragments of an Unknown Teaching, which he approved, called it objective reporting, and approved publication of it, which the publishers called, In Search of the Miraculous. It was published virtually simultaneously with Gurdjieff's own All and Everything: First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, added note sdp) ...we walked by the hundreds through the cemetery gates, following him to the family plot. I saw the grave open...the porters put him down into it. A great sigh came from the people-the only sound they had made, when they were together, since he died. The priest came to the rescue with his chanting. Later everyone passed by the terrible hole... It was over. He had disappeared from us forever. Later. Two days before he was taken to the hospital he called in four people who happened to be sitting in the salon through the night and just looked at them fro a long time, saying not one word. They believed he was saying good-bye. The priest at the Russian church stated that there has never been such a funeral before, except Chaliapin's; that he had never seen such mass grief, or such a concentration of attitude on the part of the mourners. Even the undertaker who had never seen Gurdjieff before he saw him dead, broke down at the grave and wept". ........ The Unknowable Gurdjieff, MA, 1962 Yes he did a great job of creating students not those who abided in the Self. It must have been a very emotional day for them. I'm sure there were students to dig his hole. He loved to make students work, sweat in self inquiry. He knew he would have a grand sending off. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 10, 2017 16:07:57 GMT -5
"October 30, 1949...I shall never be able to describe the noble beauty of his dead face. ...Jane's English group had arrived in the night, direct from the gare. At four a.m. the French group took over. Streams of people came and went all night, as they did all day. I can't imagine what the American Hospital thought of all this, the hundreds of pilgrims who came and went away, all through the icy, frosty night.
Tuesday. I'm just back from the chapel. I sat by his side, near his face, for two hours. A small choir came from the Russian church and sang the responses. The chief priest in the old tradition-robe, silver cross and a chain, long black hair and beard, liquid black eyes and honey voice. ...Gurdjieff's face today was greyer and the skin is tighter over the immense intelligence of his skull. Wednesday. Un froid de loup. Oh, never to see that smile again, never to hear him say-well, no matter what... The mise en biere. I couldn't quite go to the hospital to see him put into the box... I went to the Russian church at four and waited there til nearly six before he was brought. ...The church was crowded. Not a sound ever issues from any gathering of his people-neither a footstep, a cough, a rustle or a breath. A remarkable quality of silence which is so rare as to be noted as unique.
Last day. This morning at eleven-thirty the high mass at the Russian cathedral. There had been no veille permitted last night, so he had been alone until the church opened. Candles, flowers, the voices of five white-and-gold robed priests, a cantor with a divine breaking voice. How beautiful is the Russian language! The church was packed-not only with those we know, but by hundreds of his followers whom we never saw, whom I had never seen in all my years near him. ...for an hour everyone passed by his coffin, one by one, from the right. Each mourner, streaming with tears, made a genuflection at his head, stepped up to the icon at his feet, kissed it, and walked to the left. Each, un-self-conscious, took his or her private and sorrowful farewell to him with a ceremonious simplicity that tore one's heart open even wider than before, if possible. ...The crowds stood along the street to watch him brought out and put in the great funeral carriage... The family rode with him. The hundreds of others rode behind in the cortege in many private cars and four enormous autobuses. The streets were jammed, closed to traffic for blocks around the Russian church, and other crowds gathered to watch the spectacle. I went with some of the rich silent English, old followers of Ouspensky's. (who had died two years previously. After Ouspensky died, many asked Madame Ouspensky {who had always remained a student of Gurdjieff}, who lived at Franklin Farms, NJ, what tf do we do now? Madame Ouspensky told them, go to Gurdjieff in Paris. And it was Madame Ouspensky who sent the [then unpublished] manuscript to Gurdjieff, Fragments of an Unknown Teaching, which he approved, called it objective reporting, and approved publication of it, which the publishers called, In Search of the Miraculous. It was published virtually simultaneously with Gurdjieff's own All and Everything: First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, added note sdp) ...we walked by the hundreds through the cemetery gates, following him to the family plot. I saw the grave open...the porters put him down into it. A great sigh came from the people-the only sound they had made, when they were together, since he died. The priest came to the rescue with his chanting. Later everyone passed by the terrible hole... It was over. He had disappeared from us forever. Later. Two days before he was taken to the hospital he called in four people who happened to be sitting in the salon through the night and just looked at them fro a long time, saying not one word. They believed he was saying good-bye. The priest at the Russian church stated that there has never been such a funeral before, except Chaliapin's; that he had never seen such mass grief, or such a concentration of attitude on the part of the mourners. Even the undertaker who had never seen Gurdjieff before he saw him dead, broke down at the grave and wept". ........ The Unknowable Gurdjieff, MA, 1962 Yes he did a great job of creating students not those who abided in the Self. It must have been a very emotional day for them. I'm sure there were students to dig his hole. He loved to make students work, sweat in self inquiry. He knew he would have a grand sending off. If you knew anything at all about Gurdjieff you would know he did not desire adulation, in fact went out of his way to insure others would not have any kind of false admiration for him. He taught people how to become conscious, and if anyone did not work towards that or did not serve a purpose concerning that, he chased them away, drove them away. Students stayed with him at their own choice and this usually wasn't easy. He created conditions whereby a student was faced to see what they were, some could not stand to see self as is, and then anything could happen, personality/ego/cultural self run amok. But if they could stand to see themselves, they could become something else, if and only if they practiced the inner work. But also at some point for every student, in some manner, at a time right for them, maybe even after years, he asked them to leave, and if they wouldn't, he forced them to leave, he didn't want followers, he taught people to stand on their own, to find their own way. People loved him because of what they gained from his teaching, for Gurdjieff it was all about the teaching, not himself, the teaching that came through him, not from him. |
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Post by bluey on Feb 10, 2017 16:43:57 GMT -5
Yes he did a great job of creating students not those who abided in the Self. It must have been a very emotional day for them. I'm sure there were students to dig his hole. He loved to make students work, sweat in self inquiry. He knew he would have a grand sending off. If you knew anything at all about Gurdjieff you would know he did not desire adulation, in fact went out of his way to insure others would not have any kind of false admiration for him. He taught people how to become conscious, and if anyone did not work towards that or did not serve a purpose concerning that, he chased them away, drove them away. Students stayed with him at their own choice and this usually wasn't easy. He created conditions whereby a student was faced to see what they were, some could not stand to see self as is, and then anything could happen, personality/ego/cultural self run amok. But if they could stand to see themselves, they could become something else, if and only if they practiced the inner work. But also at some point for every student, in some manner, at a time right for them, maybe even after years, he asked them to leave, and if they wouldn't, he forced them to leave, he didn't want followers, he taught people to stand on their own, to find their own way. People loved him because of what they gained from his teaching, for Gurdjieff it was all about the teaching, not himself, the teaching that came through him, not from him. You carry on. I would never point any one in the direction of gurdjieff. It's one of the reasons why you have not awakened to your true self. Carry on as you are. |
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