sam90
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Post by sam90 on Apr 23, 2016 6:25:17 GMT -5
Another such obvious commonality is that a teaching based on layered levels of attainment is as likely to reinforce what leads the seeker away from the end of the search as not.
Yes, it`s true because as soon as we start thinking about "stages" , we move back into the world of duality.
But I do think it is welcome to have clarity about deepening levels of realisation, as people can clearly get confused, or deluded.
Of course that is just a reflection of the current state of consciousness and lack of spiritual knowledge, in our world. And there are lot of people parading themselves around, as if they have `arrived`.
A lot of people can also get stuck in `inbetween states`. Actually, I know a couple of people who had felt that they had arrived, I wouldn`t describe as `stuck`, but spend a lot of time out of the mind, and one of them was absolutely convinced that he was enlightened, after a large opening. But his clarity obviously would come and go.
Sometimes people get into semi-blissfull states, moving in and out of the One. So it`s obviously for people to get mistaken.
I guess that`s also where a master is really usefull.
As far as Poonja was concerned, if he was telling people that they were enlightened prematurely , and sending them away from him, I can`t really blame these people believing that was their reality.
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2016 6:35:08 GMT -5
Another such obvious commonality is that a teaching based on layered levels of attainment is as likely to reinforce what leads the seeker away from the end of the search as not.
Yes, it`s true because as soon as we start thinking about "stages" , we move back into the world of duality.
But I do think it is welcome to have clarity about deepening levels of realisation, as people can clearly get confused, or deluded.
Of course that is just a reflection of the current state of consciousness and lack of spiritual knowledge, in our world. And there are lot of people parading themselves around, as if they have `arrived`.
A lot of people can also get stuck in `inbetween states`. Actually I have a couple of friends, who I wouldn`t describe as `stuck`, but spend a lot of time out of the mind, and one of them was absolutely convinced that he was enlightened, after a large opening.
Sometimes people get into semi-blissfull states, moving in and out of the One. So it`s obviously for people to get mistaken.
I guess that`s also where a master is really usefull.
As far as Poonja was concerned, if he was telling people that they were enlightened prematurely , and sending them away from him, I can`t really blame these people believing that was their reality.
There's no lack of spiritual knowledge in this world, but despite that, there is this misconceived notion of some sort of collective state of consciousness. Consciousness is an overused idea that people fixate on as some way to understand process and identity. In contrast, the truth is simple, immediate and unchanging. One way to see this is to question any and all assumptions about this idea of consciousness to begin with. |
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sam90
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Post by sam90 on Apr 23, 2016 6:45:28 GMT -5
There`s no lack of spiritual knowledge in this world?
I don`t really see how you can assert that.
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2016 6:47:18 GMT -5
There`s no lack of spiritual knowledge in this world? I don`t really see how you can assert that. What more do you need to point you to the truth? What are you waiting for? Or are you speaking of others? If so, does that they're ignoring it means there's a deficit of it? |
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sam90
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Post by sam90 on Apr 23, 2016 7:39:10 GMT -5
There`s no lack of spiritual knowledge in this world? I don`t really see how you can assert that. What more do you need to point you to the truth? What are you waiting for? Or are you speaking of others? If so, does that they're ignoring it means there's a deficit of it? I guess you mean that there is no lack of "truth" in the world.
But I wouldn`t really equate "truth" with "knowledge".
After all, someone who has realised "the truth" may or may not not have much knowledge, however someone that has not realised may have. If you know what I mean.
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2016 7:46:33 GMT -5
What more do you need to point you to the truth? What are you waiting for? Or are you speaking of others? If so, does that they're ignoring it means there's a deficit of it? I guess you mean that there is no lack of "truth" in the world.
But I wouldn`t really equate "truth" with "knowledge".
After all, someone who has realised "the truth" may or may not not have much knowledge, however someone that has not realised may have. If you know what I mean.
Perhaps we're thinking of knowledge differently then. As far as I'm concerned, there is no knowledge that directly expresses the truth, although there are thousands of years of culture and these days apparently dozens if not hundreds of living people offering similar knowledge that points toward it indirectly. In my opinion, the truth is as simple as the next breath, and it's not something that can be taught, much less explained, quantified or systematized. I'd opine further that much of what people consider knowledge obscures the truth, as it's ultimately only found in mental quiescence. |
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sam90
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Post by sam90 on Apr 23, 2016 13:01:55 GMT -5
Laughter said: "Perhaps we're thinking of knowledge differently then. As far as I'm concerned, there is no knowledge that directly expresses the truth, although there are thousands of years of culture and these days apparently dozens if not hundreds of living people offering similar knowledge that points toward it indirectly. " Yes, but how many of the worlds population are really interested in "the truth" as it is being offered by these people? Only a tiny minority of the worlds population have interest in such things. It's not as if most people watch satsangs on tv or spend their time thinking about the Whole and enlightenment , or logging into spiritualteachers.org on their iphones on their way to work . In India, everyone has heard of "Brahman" , and "Satsang", but these are just dead words to most people. Part of the framework. " In my opinion, the truth is as simple as the next breath, and it's not something that can be taught, much less explained, quantified or systematized. I'd opine further that much of what people consider knowledge obscures the truth, as it's ultimately only found in mental quiescence." The truth may not be explained, but some ancient and modern yogis have made maps of their inner journeys, and some like Patanjali have mapped their growth after their initial understanding, and places this into different types of samadhi. However, I doubt that this growth is like a movement from A to B. More like a growth from A to A1 , A1 to A2, A2 to A3, etc etc etc. * Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4562/marlowe-sands-on-andrew-cohen#ixzz46fJx. the truth, as it's ultimately only found in mental quiescence. " * « Prev * 1 * 2 * 3 |
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2016 15:38:36 GMT -5
Laughter said: "Perhaps we're thinking of knowledge differently then. As far as I'm concerned, there is no knowledge that directly expresses the truth, although there are thousands of years of culture and these days apparently dozens if not hundreds of living people offering similar knowledge that points toward it indirectly. " Yes, but how many of the worlds population are really interested in "the truth" as it is being offered by these people? Only a tiny minority of the worlds population have interest in such things. It's not as if most people watch satsangs on tv or spend their time thinking about the Whole and enlightenment , or logging into spiritualteachers.org on their iphones on their way to work . In India, everyone has heard of "Brahman" , and "Satsang", but these are just dead words to most people. Part of the framework. " In my opinion, the truth is as simple as the next breath, and it's not something that can be taught, much less explained, quantified or systematized. I'd opine further that much of what people consider knowledge obscures the truth, as it's ultimately only found in mental quiescence." The truth may not be explained, but some ancient and modern yogis have made maps of their inner journeys, and some like Patanjali have mapped their growth after their initial understanding, and places this into different types of samadhi. However, I doubt that this growth is like a movement from A to B. More like a growth from A to A1 , A1 to A2, A2 to A3, etc etc etc. * Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4562/marlowe-sands-on-andrew-cohen#ixzz46fJx. the truth, as it's ultimately only found in mental quiescence. " * « Prev * 1 * 2 * 3 Right, just 'cause peeps aren't interested in that knowledge doesn't mean there's a deficit of knowledge, but instead, a deficit of interest in it. Some of those maps are interesting, no doubt -- like the 10 Zen bulls for instance. But the thing is that if someone's interested in realizing the truth expectations can be as much obstruction as not. This segues back to your interest in people who teach before they're ready, or as my friend maxy likes to call it, "premature immaculation"  I don't remember the source of this idea, I really wish I did, but it makes alot of sense to me. It goes that a spiritual teacher has a natural proclivity to project their story onto the student. In a way, how could they not do this? Didn't Niz tell peeps to attend to their sense of being because he was told to do that and because it was part of his path? The teacher teaches what he or she knows, and what they know is partly from their experience. What I like to say is that noone can teach another how to be, because everyone already is -- so that element of the teaching isn't really from experience, and reading Anadi's stuff for instance, it's always central in some way to this sort of knowledge. But the details, whyfore's particulars, style and nature of every teaching bear the fingerprints of the source of the material. So the source I got this idea from went on to relate that the teachers least likely to project or at least to effect their students the least by that projection are the ones that bring the least ego to the interaction with the student. And to use Niz as an example again, in his most widely cited quote he names love the capacity to see and hear with the eyes and ears of the seekers he was speaking with. Now, how to determine who's clear and who isn't is a different matter altogether, but I think we can all agree that someone teaching without clarity as to themselves has the potential to at the very least confuse his or her students. Perhaps I'm wrong about abstraction and systematization and maybe people can wake up by the thousands by applying such ideas. But I'm willing to admit that possibility partially because I'm quite certain that I'm not wrong about the exquisitely unique expression of the truth that every human being embodies.  |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 25, 2016 11:22:42 GMT -5
Richard Rose promoted the idea of Jacob's Ladder -- basically, as I understand it, that all you need is help getting to the next rung. And likewise, why not give a hand to the dude or dudette immediately behind you toiling away? In other words, dharma is everywhere. Seize on any and all opportunities. It's possible that the prematurely immaculated may have just what is right for a certain bloke at a certain moment, eventhough the self-annointed guru (or annointed wrongly by someone else) may get laughed off the guru stage in the Gong Show.
I plead guilty to the cheap sport of prematurely gonging guru performance. I suppose it's fun throwing rotten tomatoes at berobed peaceniks, even though I know not of what I speak, generally.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2022 8:00:46 GMT -5
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