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Post by laughter on May 10, 2016 22:27:27 GMT -5
It's one of them "ya' kinda' had to be there" thingies.  Ya mean, Andrew can't just trust me 'er sumthin? Aaah man, I thought we was gettin' somewhere an all.   |
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Post by lolly on May 11, 2016 5:26:52 GMT -5
Well, you just say it's the basis of self honesty... I don't know who rastapimp is. I really don't know what seeking answers to existential implies - I can't remember ever asking anyone about that before. Well yeah I say that 'cause it seems obvious to me that self-deception is, subjectively speaking, the height of personal irresponsibility. :D rastapimp bee 'dis dude mon'  he rent out de' rastaphants ye know. .. and as far as this goes maybe you've never asked butt, like ..  .. you do read the forum, like, right??  Ok, so honesty is responsibility. |
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Post by lolly on May 11, 2016 5:30:22 GMT -5
You sign up for the job understanding the responsibilities of duty of care and so on, which is all legally liable and insurance and the rest if it. I really don't make a 'free-will' debate out of it at all. I only say if people can't keep up the responsibility then they do something about it, because there's ramifications. Apart from the risk of harm, it's bad for the profession, disrupts trust, leads to people not seeking help = less opportunity to benefit - not to mention the worker becoming overwhelmed and stressed out. People burn out and become jaded and can't go on with it, but we don't say 'get your act together' or anything. We talk about it and have supervisory and support mechanisms to draw on, peer networks that can lighten the load and so on. Sometimes a life change changes what you can do as well. For example one woman I know worked in child protection for years (which is tough) and she was was fine, but when she had her own baby she simply couldn't do it anymore. We really don't frame our ethics on free will, or individualism. It's all about the person in their set of circumstances, personal, social, environmental, cultural, historical - everything. Well no there's no debate 'cause it's just assumed. :D Don't worry, it's not like I'm singling you out on this point you know.  I'd never assumed it and haven't heard any mention of it but we have a big thing called self-determination, but it's not conceived of as free will. It's basically in terms of empowerment and self determination. |
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Post by andrew on May 11, 2016 5:30:56 GMT -5
It's one of them "ya' kinda' had to be there" thingies. Ya mean, Andrew can't just trust me 'er sumthin? Aaah man, I thought we was gettin' somewhere an all. I actually find you to be very consistent in your perspective, approach and general manner. |
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Post by laughter on May 12, 2016 2:54:38 GMT -5
Well yeah I say that 'cause it seems obvious to me that self-deception is, subjectively speaking, the height of personal irresponsibility. rastapimp bee 'dis dude mon' he rent out de' rastaphants ye know. .. and as far as this goes maybe you've never asked butt, like .. .. you do read the forum, like, right?? Ok, so honesty is responsibility. No, but they're related in that self-deception can't stand in the face of someone taking responsibility for their thoughts. The way Tolle put it and lot's of other's followed suit is that resistance to life can't stand the light of conscious awareness. The trick to this is that if one also assumes ownership of the source of those thoughts they're going to reinforce their false sense of personality. It's a self-reinforcing trap of self-recrimination. |
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Post by laughter on May 12, 2016 2:55:45 GMT -5
Well no there's no debate 'cause it's just assumed. Don't worry, it's not like I'm singling you out on this point you know. I'd never assumed it and haven't heard any mention of it but we have a big thing called self-determination, but it's not conceived of as free will. It's basically in terms of empowerment and self determination. A rose by any other name dude.  |
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Post by lolly on May 12, 2016 3:03:12 GMT -5
Ok, so honesty is responsibility. No, but they're related in that self-deception can't stand in the face of someone taking responsibility for their thoughts. The way Tolle put it and lot's of other's followed suit is that resistance to life can't stand the light of conscious awareness. The trick to this is that if one also assumes ownership of the source of those thoughts they're going to reinforce their false sense of personality. It's a self-reinforcing trap of self-recrimination. Ok, so people are responsible for what they think, but they don't have ownership of the source of thoughts. The idea that resistance can't withstand conscious awareness is probably more to the point, and honesty is essential, too. |
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Post by lolly on May 12, 2016 3:09:24 GMT -5
I'd never assumed it and haven't heard any mention of it but we have a big thing called self-determination, but it's not conceived of as free will. It's basically in terms of empowerment and self determination. A rose by any other name dude. ;) I can assure you that self-determination isn't a concept about free-will, and I remind you that it isn't me who obsesses with that notion. Self determination is about what can be made possible by both removing social barriers and by providing the right resources. For example, a wheel-chair is at the bottom of the stairs, and there's no way to go up them. We resource the place with a gradual ramp, and the wheelchair person is enabled. Being able to navigate the environment through this empowerment enables a greater scope of self-determination. |
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Post by laughter on May 12, 2016 3:12:43 GMT -5
A rose by any other name dude. I can assure you that self-determination isn't a concept about free-will, and I remind you that it isn't me who obsesses with that notion. Self determination is about what can be made possible by both removing social barriers and by providing the right resources. For example, a wheel-chair is at the bottom of the stairs, and there's no way to go up them. We resource the place with a gradual ramp, and the wheelchair person is enabled. Being able to navigate the environment through this empowerment enables a greater scope of self-determination. Fine, then get in touch with a broader perspective in terms of societal consensus in a whole host of other circumstances. The idea of a person responsible for their intent is just taken for granted in all sorts of situations, some mundane, others institutional |
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Post by enigma on May 13, 2016 0:57:37 GMT -5
I know that. What I don't know is what in blazes Tenka is talking about. I suspect there a 'truth competition' involved and people are striving for that trophy. Maybe ambiguity reflects the absence of what the trophy claims to represent? I think ambiguity reflects confusion. |
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Post by lolly on May 13, 2016 2:18:14 GMT -5
I suspect there a 'truth competition' involved and people are striving for that trophy. Maybe ambiguity reflects the absence of what the trophy claims to represent? I think ambiguity reflects confusion. Well I didn't get the impression that Tenka was confused and I found what he was saying pretty easy to understand. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 16, 2016 15:27:10 GMT -5
Ya mean, Andrew can't just trust me 'er sumthin? Aaah man, I thought we was gettin' somewhere an all. I actually find you to be very consistent in your perspective, approach and general manner. And yet, you know not from where it all arises, and then proceed place your imagined self above. Keep climbing,,, if you must. I remember, it's hard exhausting work.  |
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Post by andrew on May 16, 2016 15:29:08 GMT -5
I actually find you to be very consistent in your perspective, approach and general manner. And yet, you know not from where it all arises, and then proceed place your imagined self above. Keep climbing,,, if you must. I remember, it's hard exhausting work. yep, that was consistent. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 16, 2016 15:31:22 GMT -5
And yet, you know not from where it all arises, and then proceed place your imagined self above. Keep climbing,,, if you must. I remember, it's hard exhausting work. yep, that was consistent. But, are you comfortable seeing things how you see them, and understanding peeps how you understand them? |
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Post by andrew on May 16, 2016 15:34:38 GMT -5
yep, that was consistent. But, are you comfortable seeing things how you see them, and understanding peeps how you understand them? I would say that to at least some extent, everyone is. |
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