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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 0:11:38 GMT -5
You know what bores me about people like Andrew that sit in their armchairs, stroking other people's dogs. There are 36 of his countrymen and women being buried this week because of some fully trained and fully armed gunman's misinterpretation of Allah's words.
And, he hasn't mentioned them once. Any of them.
Don't worry I'm well ready for his 'upper' middle class insipid excuses.
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Post by quinn on Jul 5, 2015 1:06:49 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that, Andrew. At least, it seems to me that questioning government, media, medicine, big business and so on are happening a lot. Of course, some still dig their heels in and write everyone off as delusional (I have family members like that!) but mostly there's a growing suspicion of those in authority. I followed the conspiracy theorists for quite a while years ago and I'll tell you the conclusion I finally came to at that time: All anyone can do (and by anyone, I mean those not in the power position) is to be as clear as possible about what can be known and find our own authority. Unless that's done, we're lambs to the slaughter. And that applies to lizard-people among us, aliens, forces on the dark planes, Illuminati, the Koch Brothers and Merck Pharmaceuticals. Yes, that's well said. Some of the agenda's -- in terms of common consensus -- of those with power are pretty obvious to anyone who wants to look, but there's no need to feel powerless about them just because you can't personally make the distortions in the media stop. I don't know the source of this, but someone once expressed how I take your sentence to read with the idea: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". In terms of non-duality of course, "standing for something" implies identification with form. We could replace the word "something" with the word "nothing", and this, in my opinion, might divide the forum members between those who would read it as advocating apathy, and those who would understand otherwise.  Yeah, I was actually thinking earlier today about how that original conclusion I came to back then has morphed a bit. Getting clear isn't just about fact-finding - it's about becoming clear internally first. And finding our own authority isn't just about standing up for something - it's finding our own source of authority first, grounding in our own truth. Then if we're moved to act, it's coming from a much stronger place. |
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Post by quinn on Jul 5, 2015 1:22:00 GMT -5
You know what bores me about people like Andrew that sit in their armchairs, stroking other people's dogs. There are 36 of his countrymen and women being buried this week because of some fully trained and fully armed gunman's misinterpretation of Allah's words. And, he hasn't mentioned them once. Any of them. Don't worry I'm well ready for his 'upper' middle class insipid excuses. I'm so sorry, Wren. So much pain. I just got back from the wedding of an American woman and an English man. Half of the party had flown in from England in support of the couple's commitment - lovely people, wonderful evening. And atrocities happening all over the world, every minute. You do realize that that picture of Andrew was one second of time and one facet of his life, just as these forum conversations also don't tell a whole story? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 1:30:27 GMT -5
You know what bores me about people like Andrew that sit in their armchairs, stroking other people's dogs. There are 36 of his countrymen and women being buried this week because of some fully trained and fully armed gunman's misinterpretation of Allah's words. And, he hasn't mentioned them once. Any of them. Don't worry I'm well ready for his 'upper' middle class insipid excuses. I'm so sorry, Wren. So much pain. I just got back from the wedding of an American woman and an English man. Half of the party had flown in from England in support of the couple's commitment - lovely people, wonderful evening. And atrocities happening all over the world, every minute. You do realize that that picture of Andrew was one second of time and one facet of his life, just as these forum conversations also don't tell a whole story? I know, though he so fixated with what the internet tells him that he's lost sight of his own doorstep. I do truly believe that. It's Sunday now, and although we are in the middle of a beautiful heatwave, bear in mind that Summer's are usually quite short in England, due the the rainforest climate of old. He will still post in here, all day, every hour. I'm glad that you enjoyed the company of true Brits, we are a comical and sincere race. The self-depreciation that accompanies our humour, is balanced with a true solidity that innately recognises good people, wherever they meet them. ** I bow to you** |
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Post by andrew on Jul 5, 2015 3:29:27 GMT -5
You know what bores me about people like Andrew that sit in their armchairs, stroking other people's dogs. There are 36 of his countrymen and women being buried this week because of some fully trained and fully armed gunman's misinterpretation of Allah's words. And, he hasn't mentioned them once. Any of them. Don't worry I'm well ready for his 'upper' middle class insipid excuses. I'm not sure what you would have had me say, though actually I did implicitly mention them when I spoke of ISIS being government funded. The loss of any life in that manner seems wrong, but thousands of lives are lost in wrong ways every day and are far less media hyped than this event. You sound very much like you have class issues. You also sound like the popular media has got you well and truly on its string. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 5:44:18 GMT -5
Everyone knows 9/11 was Oswald and Elvis doing the secret bidding of the koolaide lobby. Peeps taste better to the reptillians the more of that stuff they drink -- especially the purple flavor. Kant for the life of me yet figure out the connection between the drink and the dastardly deed though. Maybe some of the other truthers here can enlighten me. blah, blah, blah... get it together man  in other news: if you were Greek, which vote would you cast today? nai or oxi? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 5:52:28 GMT -5
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Post by quinn on Jul 5, 2015 9:54:52 GMT -5
I'm so sorry, Wren. So much pain. I just got back from the wedding of an American woman and an English man. Half of the party had flown in from England in support of the couple's commitment - lovely people, wonderful evening. And atrocities happening all over the world, every minute. You do realize that that picture of Andrew was one second of time and one facet of his life, just as these forum conversations also don't tell a whole story? I know, though he so fixated with what the internet tells him that he's lost sight of his own doorstep. I do truly believe that. It's Sunday now, and although we are in the middle of a beautiful heatwave, bear in mind that Summer's are usually quite short in England, due the the rainforest climate of old. He will still post in here, all day, every hour. I'm glad that you enjoyed the company of true Brits, we are a comical and sincere race. The self-depreciation that accompanies our humour, is balanced with a true solidity that innately recognises good people, wherever they meet them. ** I bow to you** I just experienced what Poppee wrote about in the other thread. Hit the quote button and my mind came up with NADA. *** returns bow gratefully *** |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 13:16:15 GMT -5
Given the content offered on Shawn's homepage it's not surprising that people with an interest in non duality (or ending suffering) would congregate here. But you are certainly free to talk about any other topics as you desire.
"Instead of indulging in mere speculation, devote yourself here and now to the search for the Truth that is ever within you." – Ramana Maharshi (from the homepage) ;-) is the ultimate double-bind, and it's one that I do so adore. All I tried to do last year was provide an environment free of acrimonious debate over in GSD -- an alternative user experience -- and it actually worked for awhile. During that time I was called "a suck-azz squirt", a control freak, an a$$hole, a brown bear, yadda, yadda -- more names that I care to remember, honestly -- but I never banned anyone for the act of dissent. Free speech is a very hard concept to live by and eventually created it's opposite, but it really is the ultimate double-bind for peeps who constantly generate angry rhetoric directed at the forum in general. well that was then and this is now btw - your tenure was marred by one bad day, and that's all they want to remember you by... lols |
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Post by silver on Jul 5, 2015 14:00:18 GMT -5
Excuse me? One bad day?!  (I luvs dis lady.)  |
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Post by jay17 on Jul 5, 2015 14:06:17 GMT -5
Who can know for sure. It's just interesting to speculate every now and then. "Instead of indulging in mere speculation, devote yourself here and now to the search for the Truth that is ever within you." – Ramana Maharshi It seems to me you're out of context. You seem to be under the impression that all i do is speculate, or that all i possess are speculations. Regarding Ramana Maharshi's quote, he does not say what is Truth, he simply expressed his opinion that Truth is found within, and he speaks of a journey to discover it. I think one journeys towards answers\Truth by first speculating\theorizing, which sets a path to explore, and you continue on that path seeking out more information as you endeavor to find answers. I prefer Buddha's way of expressing things. "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." - Buddha |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 14:51:06 GMT -5
Excuse me? One bad day?! (I luvs dis lady.) yer right, that one day really wasn't all that bad. I felt for the guy though, I could hear the the pot boiling from here, but I was helpless to do anything about it ;-) |
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Post by silver on Jul 5, 2015 14:58:34 GMT -5
Ha ha, yer right! All you could do was send him a jar of your wife's tomato sauce. (Some pal you turned out to be!)  |
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Post by jay17 on Jul 5, 2015 15:08:14 GMT -5
Like you, I think a big resistance for many folks is the idea that our governments would be deceiving us so much. And 9/11 really is just the tip of an iceberg. I think this is also why folks reject the alternative views, there is a sense of just how deep it all goes, right down to questioning the ancestral roots of humanity, why we are here, and who we are. In a way, it is just easier to turn a blind eye and laugh at the alternative views. It is changing though for sure, and I appreciate the fact that some celebrities speak out these days. I watched this Matt Damon video yesterday and liked it.... Will be downloading and watching a whole bunch of Howard Zinn vids now, so thanks for the link andrew.( Matt Damon was reading an excerpt from one of his speeches.) I imagine he(Howard) will articulate in far more clear detail the thoughts i have about these issues. One of the big keys for me, a crucial one is independent thought, the ability to critically analyze for oneself, to be confident in one's conclusions and thus act on them, regardless of how many agree with you. I have always been out of sync\harmony with society. It was painful when i was younger, and i developed a complex that the world was sane and i was the crazy one, but as i matured and my confidence in what i saw and reasoned grew, i began to change my opinion that it was the world that was crazy and i was the sane one. Matt speaks of the problem of civil obedience, and i read decades ago about the "Father" of modern western public education, and how it's main purpose was to keep the common folk dumb and obedient to the higher classes, to maintain a labour force so the rich could keep their lifestyles. Another way of expressing it, as many researchers have, is the way to control people is to teach them what to think and not to teach them how to think. So this is also another reason why many refuse to accept alternative ideas, because they have been conditioned, they've accepted the years of conditioning they were subject to within the education system. Part of that conditioning is to accept one set of information as the only facts of the matter, given by experts or people of authority, and to respect, trust and never even entertain the idea to question them. And people do this willingly because they are conditioned from an early age to be obedient to the norms of society. So when a blatantly obvious lie has been said, or the facts clearly do not match the 'official story', many are unable to break free of their programming. Only those that were not 100% hypnotized\brainwashed are able to break free and think for themselves and see there's something wrong. The ones that seek to control others, will give people plenty of situations to feel autonomous, there is vast diversity to choose from in most material things that allows a person to express their individuality, and thus feel like an autonomous individual, but when it comes to thought, they do not want people to make up their own minds. Before 9\11, and not that awakened or interested in global issues as i had a ton of inner problems to deal with, i used to watch Bush.jr and think, how did he become president, he's really stupid, not as an insulting, but biologically he must have a really low IQ. And it was contemplating this guy and the high office he had that it began to dawn on me that a scam of huge proportions was taking place. He consistently said really dumb things, and due to my limited access to information, it seemed no one was bothered by this, and people seemed to respect him. Of course it turned out that mainstream media is part of the propaganda machine that is used to influence\control what people think. And that brings me to the other main issue, willingly giving up one's responsibility of oneself. No need to do the hard work of thinking and figuring out things for oneself, the experts and those elected into office can do all that. I do not have to concern myself with these important issues, that's what the government people are for, they want to dedicate themselves to those hard issues, and anyways, i have movies and tv shows to watch and other things i enjoy that i seek to experience. Let the others deal with the problems of earth so i can have a life of leisure to enjoy myself in. And thus another reason why many don't do something about the problems or they ignore them or deny them, is as long as their life is reasonably comfortable, with only minor problems or complaints, they have no incentive to rise and do something about them. They accept a mediocre life because it takes little effort to have one, and as long as the material pleasures are freely accessible or affordable, then why bother. Thus another reason why more people are actively speaking up and opposing the status quo is the crazy controlling people, who themselves have lost self control and are imbalanced with greed, are taking too much away and it's causing too much harm for many to remain inactive. |
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Post by jay17 on Jul 5, 2015 15:36:33 GMT -5
The whole thing is a can of worms in the sense that if we truly look closely at what's going on, we might have to start questioning the choices we have made....off the top of my head examples might be.....why do I work for who I work for? Why do I have a mortgage? Why do I want to send my kids to a certain school? As I said to jay, it can threaten our whole sense of identity. That's a big issue. Being accepted by others, fitting into society. For if you fit in and you do not cause trouble\get on well with others, you feel good about yourself, you unconsciously think, "Oh, i am normal, i am the same as everyone else, people will accept me, i am a good person\member of society, i have not caused harm to anyone, people accept and love me." Ha, i remember when i was in my early 20's, newly married, only just begun my spiritual\inner journey via christianity, though coming from a 20 year history of social awkwardness and alienation because the majority of human social interaction simply did not make sense to me...and my parents did not explain anything like that, and i was not a reader\researcher till my mid 20's... ...me and the ex went to the neighbour's bbq, and i was amazed to see people behaving just like in a comedy movie or sit-com. The blokes were all hanging out at the bbq, beers n smokes in hand, talking blokey stuff, it was difficult to remain interested in the surface issues they were discussing. All the shelias were sitting at the table, so i went and sat with me missus and tried to join in. I was ignored by all of them, including the missus. It seems i had violated the social protocols of aussie backyard bbqs, blokes do not hang out with the shelias. I then hung out with the kids of various ages and joined in their game of cricket. They seemed ok for a little while, and either it was me perceiving it or they actually did not like an adult joining them. So after an excruciatingly 30-40 minutes all up, i did not say a word to anyone and just walked back home to grab a feed and do something i enjoyed. Even though i was aware i was messed up, that i has self worth issues due to not being accepted by society, deeper in i was extremely joyful and peaceful that i did not want or need to conform to other's standards. Thus one of the main battles within was between thinking my self worth was dependent on others, and actually loving and appreciating my unique individuality that did not require acceptance from others. Thus i am confident that the individual development of self love and acceptance is part of the global change we are seeing. People who have no fear of challenging the status quo, who are not adversely affected by being ridiculed or rejected by X number of peers. Who are secure in themselves and are lovingly motivated to resolving the problems we humans cause. |
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