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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 8:32:58 GMT -5
Hello everyone. My name is Rob, I'm from England.
I got into this stuff almost by accident at the end of the nineties when I took up meditation as a means of trying to get some balance in my, then, chaotic life. After my second or third attempt at meditation something unexpected and remarkable happened; I fell out of the picture just leaving the fullness of the present moment - it was as if there was no 'me' in opposition to everything else - there was just simply everything - a sense of utter present-ness and completeness. It felt totally peaceful and the natural way to be - it also felt as if I'd known this state before, perhaps from very early childhood. Suffice to say, I continued with a regular meditation practice and glimpsed this state on many occasions. These days it's not so much of a jolt anymore - but it comes as a gentle reminder like the memory of some good news… this is it… there is ONLY Life/Being doing its thing.
This seems like a good natured forum with quite a bit of diversity. I'm not sure that I'll be a prolific poster but I look forward to joining in now and then.
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Post by silver on May 22, 2015 10:35:45 GMT -5
Hi Rob!
Nice to have you here.
I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
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Post by jay17 on May 22, 2015 20:58:49 GMT -5
- I fell out of the picture just leaving the fullness of the present moment - it was as if there was no 'me' in opposition to everything else - there was just simply everything - a sense of utter present-ness and completeness. Hello Rob from England. 1. That is definitely one way a human being can look at it. Another way is to remain in the picture and perceive the fullness of the present moment. Here's some observations of your descriptions that do not add up to me. - If you exist, and 'the picture' is 'the fullness'\'everything else'...then the picture can no longer have those qualities because a part of the whole, you, are no longer in it. The picture can no longer be called 'fullness'\'everything'. - If you do not exist, then who is observing the picture after they fell out of it? - If the picture is fullness\everything...then what is this space you exist in that is separate from the picture where you observe it from? - Perhaps sensing no more opposition to everything else, signifies the self is no longer present to sense the opposition. - But just as equally, perhaps it signifies the self is present, but simply no longer senses any opposition. - For how can there be an awareness of 'no more opposition', unless there is a self to experience this? - If the self is no longer present, then who is sensing the cessation of opposition? An analogy: If existence, everything in it, is a lake of pure clear water, and the individual self is a drop of this water existing in it, and this drop of water is made of the same substance as the rest of the lake, then it might be very difficult to see\perceive the individual drop of water(the self) in this clear still lake, even though the lake is comprised of millions of drops. But as self observes from their position in this lake(the picture), because they are intimately connected to the lake, no opposition to the rest of the lake, and self sees their is no distinction between their self(the drop) and the rest of the lake, thus self perceives\concludes they are the whole lake. But if self is made unique from all the other drops in the lake, say injected with an oil based paint, then when put back into the lake, self can now distinguish itself from all the other drops, from the whole lake of water, due to the individuality of itself. Yet the individual drop is still intimately connected to the lake, still part of the lake, still made of the same substance. But there is now a boundary that defines the one drop from the rest of the lake. There is the awareness of individuality, the one drop of water is partially different to all the other drops, yet it is still made of the same substance as everything else. I think this difference is in how a human thinks and feels. And the only time a difference becomes a problem, is when someone cannot accept a person's individuality, when a person is in opposition to another. |
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Post by laughter on May 23, 2015 2:03:33 GMT -5
Hello everyone. My name is Rob, I'm from England. I got into this stuff almost by accident at the end of the nineties when I took up meditation as a means of trying to get some balance in my, then, chaotic life. After my second or third attempt at meditation something unexpected and remarkable happened; I fell out of the picture just leaving the fullness of the present moment - it was as if there was no 'me' in opposition to everything else - there was just simply everything - a sense of utter present-ness and completeness. It felt totally peaceful and the natural way to be - it also felt as if I'd known this state before, perhaps from very early childhood. Suffice to say, I continued with a regular meditation practice and glimpsed this state on many occasions. These days it's not so much of a jolt anymore - but it comes as a gentle reminder like the memory of some good news… this is it… there is ONLY Life/Being doing its thing. This seems like a good natured forum with quite a bit of diversity. I'm not sure that I'll be a prolific poster but I look forward to joining in now and then. Hey Rob, welcome to the st forum.  Great description and one that's similar to the experience and understandings of several members here. I look forward to seeing where your interests lie should you wind up engaging.  Do you still meditate? Did you ever incorporate a waking/moving version of your practice into daily life, similar to say, mindfulness? |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 7:57:26 GMT -5
Hi Rob! Nice to have you here. I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Hi Silver, thanks for the welcome. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 8:13:19 GMT -5
Hi Jay, you make some good points.
Firstly, I can't be truly certain of what the implications of my experience/insight is, I can only report (in the language that is available to me) the actual experience - and then, perhaps, attempt an analysis.
Secondly, I'm not sure that (too much) analysis does justice to the actual experience. The analysis is strictly a left hemispheric procedure which abstracts and carves existence/experience up and then proceeds to make inferences based on what is now, in a sense, distorted data. (It misses the mark simply because the experience is strictly context dependent - the present moment mode of cognition is crucial.)
Having said that, I think that your lake analogy is quite helpful - here's my variation: we grow up and go about our business believing that we are separate, inherently existing waves. One day we glimpse something that we had overlooked - we get the deep sense that ALL there is is the ocean… and that what I am (what the wave is) is a modulation of this great torrent. It's in this sense that the 'me' falls away. In fact it doesn't fall away, there is simply a powerful shift of context in which the 'me' is re-framed.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 8:19:00 GMT -5
Hey Rob, welcome to the st forum. Great description and one that's similar to the experience and understandings of several members here. I look forward to seeing where your interests lie should you wind up engaging. Do you still meditate? Did you ever incorporate a waking/moving version of your practice into daily life, similar to say, mindfulness? Hi Laughter, thanks for the welcome. Yes I enjoy meditation and sit (actually, lie down these days) for 45 minutes almost every morning. But even more powerful for me is being outdoors in the countryside - there's nothing quite like it for thinning out repetitive thought junk and reconnecting with (re-cognising) the great event of existence. |
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Post by laughter on May 23, 2015 11:48:40 GMT -5
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Post by jay17 on May 23, 2015 19:26:04 GMT -5
Hi Jay, you make some good points. Firstly, I can't be truly certain of what the implications of my experience/insight is, I can only report (in the language that is available to me) the actual experience - and then, perhaps, attempt an analysis. By what means do you create your structured verbal report of your experience, if not by analysis? Secondly, I'm not sure that (too much) analysis does justice to the actual experience. The analysis is strictly a left hemispheric procedure which abstracts and carves existence/experience up and then proceeds to make inferences based on what is now, in a sense, distorted data. (It misses the mark simply because the experience is strictly context dependent - the present moment mode of cognition is crucial.) How do you determine when you have analyzed too much...what data do you take as evidence you are now "missing the mark"? What does your right hemisphere do? Why don't you combine them into one when you experience existence, seeing as they are intimately connected to each other? Having said that, I think that your lake analogy is quite helpful - here's my variation: we grow up and go about our business believing that we are separate, inherently existing waves. One day we glimpse something that we had overlooked - we get the deep sense that ALL there is is the ocean… and that what I am (what the wave is) is a modulation of this great torrent. It's in this sense that the 'me' falls away. In fact it doesn't fall away, there is simply a powerful shift of context in which the 'me' is re-framed. Then i simply do not follow your reasoning...for you say your self falls away, then you say you do not. If you now say your self does not disappear, but has only been re-framed, then self still exists? Another analogy from my dreamstate last night. You are standing still on the beach. There is a steady 4kph wind blowing to the east. You feel the wind because you are standing still. You are opposed to it, you are in opposition to it. There is a resistance to be blown away from your position. The wind exists...you exist. Then, you start walking to the east, at 4kph. You no longer feel the wind blowing against you. Has the wind disappeared? Have you disappeared? 'No' to both. The wind still exists, the self still exists. What has disappeared is the resistance, the opposition, the adversarial relationship between two. It has been replaced with perfect harmony. You and the wind are moving as one. You are not the wind, the wind is not you. There are two, but they are united as one. From the other direction: You are in a floatation tank. The tank being 'all of existence'. The water is constantly set at 40°. Your body temp is 37°. You sense, are aware of the divide between the water and your body due to difference in temperature. Via your sense of touch, you are aware of the boundary of yourself, the outer perimeter of your skin as it comes into contact with the form of another, the water. But as your body temp rises to also become 40°, you no longer can sense where your body ends and the water starts, and you now have the sensation that you no longer have a body, that you now perceive\feel\conclude\reason you are now just 'conscious awareness' floating in formless space...you are the water. Has the body disappeared? Has the water disappeared? 'No' to both. Your body(your self) still exists...the water still exists. All that has disappeared is the sensation of separateness due to both body and water(temperature) being the same. The 'difference' has been removed and replaced with 'sameness'. Then perhaps both Duality and Non-Duality are mental constructs derived from sensory input, and each individual chooses what makes the most sense to themselves, according to their personal experiences within existence. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 8:17:58 GMT -5
Hi Jay
For an illuminating read on the latest research regarding the roles of the cerebral hemispheres I would highly recommend 'The Master and His Emissary' by Iain McGilchrist.
Here's an example of too much (or inappropriate) analysis: Imagine that you've come to Earth from Mars and tasted cheesecake for the first time. Later a mate joins you (from Mars) and you go on and on about this wonderful cheesecake. Now, your mate who lives on a diet of potatoes (at the risk of offending any Martians on the forum, let's say that potatoes are their only food source) is a bit bewildered by your descriptions and is unable to get his head around the concept. At this point, further descriptions and analysis would be pointless. The best course of action is to tell him when the cafe opens, how to get there, what to ask for… and so on.
The present moment is the key. When you are present with what is as it is, it might be sensed that existence is a dynamic event presenting itself and that nothing is separate from or other than this event. But seeing this is a living seeing - it's a real-time (so to speak) apperception.
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Post by jay17 on May 24, 2015 12:58:14 GMT -5
Hi Jay For an illuminating read on the latest research regarding the roles of the cerebral hemispheres I would highly recommend 'The Master and His Emissary' by Iain McGilchrist. Here's an example of too much (or inappropriate) analysis: Imagine that you've come to Earth from Mars and tasted cheesecake for the first time. Later a mate joins you (from Mars) and you go on and on about this wonderful cheesecake. Now, your mate who lives on a diet of potatoes (at the risk of offending any Martians on the forum, let's say that potatoes are their only food source) is a bit bewildered by your descriptions and is unable to get his head around the concept. At this point, further descriptions and analysis would be pointless. The best course of action is to tell him when the cafe opens, how to get there, what to ask for… and so on. The present moment is the key. When you are present with what is as it is, it might be sensed that existence is a dynamic event presenting itself and that nothing is separate from or other than this event. But seeing this is a living seeing - it's a real-time (so to speak) apperception. I will enter into my data base that you are another who, for reasons unknown to me, does not answer questions about themself or their thoughts. It seems to me you do not wish to clarify or examine them, but merely wish to share with others the value they are to you. One example: I asked you about yourself... How do you determine when you have analyzed too much...what data do you take as evidence you are now "missing the mark"? ..and you offer some imaginary tale about Martians. But i will ask two more in order to increase my understanding of what you are saying, so that i may see if they are of worth to me also. RE: underlined: By what faculties do you know "what is as it is"? By what faculties do you conclude "existence is a dynamic event presenting itself and that nothing is separate from or other than this event"? As for the book recommendation, of which i know nothing about so decided to have a gander and come across this site. I have added it to my short list of books to read, though it will be at least a year before i get to it. My point still stands though, that if you are citing there is imbalance due to (excessive)thinking, then why can you not simply be balanced when contemplating existence? Reading his reply to Stephen Kosslyn & Wayne Miller... "The problem of hemisphere conflict is not primarily about the individual’s day to day experience, but about the way individuals conceive – and in the end a culture comes to conceive – the nature of the world in which we live. It is about two ‘takes’ on the world, one of which, to put it simply and briefly, is concerned with closing down to a certainty and the other concerned with opening up to a possibility. One, therefore (the left), aims to reach one correct answer (‘either/or’): the other (the right) is more able to live with ambivalence and the possibility of two apparently incompatible possibilities being true (‘both/and’). In an era which prizes consistency within a system of thinking above fidelity to the sometimes irresoluble complexities of the real world, one of these ‘takes’ can become comparatively neglected." |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 13:26:39 GMT -5
Hi Jay, you make some good points. what is your understanding of "good points"? welcome to the forum, regardless ;-) |
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Post by zendancer on May 24, 2015 14:06:31 GMT -5
Hello everyone. My name is Rob, I'm from England. I got into this stuff almost by accident at the end of the nineties when I took up meditation as a means of trying to get some balance in my, then, chaotic life. After my second or third attempt at meditation something unexpected and remarkable happened; I fell out of the picture just leaving the fullness of the present moment - it was as if there was no 'me' in opposition to everything else - there was just simply everything - a sense of utter present-ness and completeness. It felt totally peaceful and the natural way to be - it also felt as if I'd known this state before, perhaps from very early childhood. Suffice to say, I continued with a regular meditation practice and glimpsed this state on many occasions. These days it's not so much of a jolt anymore - but it comes as a gentle reminder like the memory of some good news… this is it… there is ONLY Life/Being doing its thing. This seems like a good natured forum with quite a bit of diversity. I'm not sure that I'll be a prolific poster but I look forward to joining in now and then. Hi Rob. Welcome to the forum. FWIW, some of us understand precisely what you're talking about, and some of us don't. It's just the varied nature of how we roll. |
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Post by jay17 on May 24, 2015 14:09:48 GMT -5
Hi Jay, you make some good points. what is your understanding of "good points"? welcome to the forum, regardless ;-) What is your understanding of people having personal preferences that you do not agree with so you choose to voice your disapproval of? |
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Post by jay17 on May 24, 2015 14:11:13 GMT -5
Hello everyone. My name is Rob, I'm from England. I got into this stuff almost by accident at the end of the nineties when I took up meditation as a means of trying to get some balance in my, then, chaotic life. After my second or third attempt at meditation something unexpected and remarkable happened; I fell out of the picture just leaving the fullness of the present moment - it was as if there was no 'me' in opposition to everything else - there was just simply everything - a sense of utter present-ness and completeness. It felt totally peaceful and the natural way to be - it also felt as if I'd known this state before, perhaps from very early childhood. Suffice to say, I continued with a regular meditation practice and glimpsed this state on many occasions. These days it's not so much of a jolt anymore - but it comes as a gentle reminder like the memory of some good news… this is it… there is ONLY Life/Being doing its thing. This seems like a good natured forum with quite a bit of diversity. I'm not sure that I'll be a prolific poster but I look forward to joining in now and then. Hi Rob. Welcome to the forum. FWIW, some of us understand precisely what you're talking about, and some of us don't. It's just the varied nature of how we roll. Understand or agree? |
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