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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 3:54:37 GMT -5
Yeah, so did Marie, in fact me and her spoke about one of hers one time. So I already knew how dominant your view was. When you went to an ER because you were unable to bring your kundalini back to base. Did you also classify that as a 'woo woo experience'? No, that was just energy ravaging my body. Did you realise that the body was just an appearance before entering the ER or upon leaving it? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 3:56:57 GMT -5
I knew that if I occupied the space that said it was only a relative truth, that that would force you to answer his question. (I'll keep the laughter to myself this time) Good, because you're starting to sound a little crazy. Yeah, manipulation will always cause a little craziness. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 4:04:47 GMT -5
It's irritating because I have to then repeat myself! You absolutely do not have to repeat yourself. I don't respond for a reason. Don't make me ignore it again.Wow. You can be made to ignore something by an appearance? You do take this dream metaphor seriously don't you? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 4:06:01 GMT -5
Lol.. I'll find it when I can be bothered. Transcendent does not mean special. Lol.. lol.. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 4:12:06 GMT -5
haha yes I think I was having a similar thought. Well, when it comes down to my conclusion about my realization vs somebody else's conclusion about their realization, yeah mine will likely win. Are you telling me you would be different?... What about you, Pilgrim?.... Anybody?.... That looks like a bat signal to Laughter. Merry Christmas All. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:35:46 GMT -5
Well, I see folks confirming truths (in experience), but not 'Truth'. Do you take it as true that you are conscious, alive, sentient and experiencing, or do you take it as 'True'? I take that to be a transcendent Truth, yes. ZD says those experiences reveal what IS so. Okay, now this IS interesting. So you take it as 'transcendent truth' that you are conscious, alive, sentient, experiencing.....but when ZD, Reefs etc speak of a 'transcendent truth' that they have had....you have challenged it on the basis that it is a 'transcendent truth'!!! So are transcendent truths questionable or not? If they're not questionable, then you have to accept Reefs/ZD's transcendent truth, even though you may not personally yet know what they know. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:38:19 GMT -5
So you were stating 'Truth'? How can 'Truth' be stated? This is what I don't understand. It seems like you have another category that I don't have. Maybe you see 'transcendent Truths' as different to both relative truths and Truth? Oneness is the Truth. There, I just stated a Truth. You're parsing words again, and I don't really have the patience for it. I'm just trying to understand your concepts. It sounds like you consider there to be relative truths (questionable), transcendent truths (not questionable), and then I guess there is 'Truth' itself, which would be a direct pointer. When you say 'Oneness is the Truth', I don't quite know where that fits in. If you said 'Oneness is the case', I would say that fits in to 'transcendent truth'. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:39:12 GMT -5
It's irritating because I have to then repeat myself! You absolutely do not have to repeat yourself. I don't respond for a reason. Don't make me ignore it again. As I said, it's irritating because I then have to repeat myself  |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:42:12 GMT -5
Well, when you say that you know that you are alive, sentient, experiencing, perceiving, conscious...but you don't know if others are, then I would guess that you would say that this is known beyond experience, and that's why you don't question it. Whereas I would say that any knowing that applies only to myself, and which discounts others, is a knowing IN experience and is questionable. It's simply obvious that neither one of us knows. Don't waste your time questioning whether in fact you really don't know something. I think you misunderstood what I said slightly, I was talking about YOUR knowing that you are alive, sentient, conscious etc. I don't know if you consider this to be a knowing IN experience, or a knowing beyond experience. I would assume that you consider relative truths to be knowings IN experience, and transcendent truths to be knowings beyond experience. And 'Truth' itself is obviously beyond experience. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:43:46 GMT -5
And yet there was no expression of concern It's quite possible that I might have been secretly celebrating sN being out of sorts! I guess I'm pleased to see that you at least think that I would be the concerned type. There WAS an expression of concern. Do I need to quote you again? Sure, because I only see an expression of interest, not an expression of concern. You could have projected celebration onto that expression, instead of concern. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:46:07 GMT -5
Okay, so are you okay when others offer conclusions based on their realizations? Everybody does if they're going to talk about it at all. Often, mind doesn't get informed properly, and their conclusion is wrong. That's when it gets really messy. Okay. I thought you had a problem with folks offering conclusions based on realizations, but I guess I am misremembering. It makes sense to me that folks offer conclusions based on their realizations, for the reason you said. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 25, 2018 4:48:48 GMT -5
haha yes I think I was having a similar thought. Well, when it comes down to my conclusion about my realization vs somebody else's conclusion about their realization, yeah mine will likely win. Are you telling me you would be different?... What about you, Pilgrim?....Anybody?.... Well I guess the confusion/debate is twofold. First, some folks know some transcendent truths that others don't. Secondly, perhaps some realizations trump others, so then that creates debate. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 25, 2018 5:46:44 GMT -5
haha yes I think I was having a similar thought. Well, when it comes down to my conclusion about my realization vs somebody else's conclusion about their realization, yeah mine will likely win. Are you telling me you would be different?... What about you, Pilgrim?....Anybody?.... I trust my teacher (which means sometimes I don't trust my teacher, which means sometimes he tests my understanding). But right, nobody else. (And note likes Andrew's post above. {For every "Gopal" below us, *we* are somebody else's "Gopal", no offense intended, Gopal}). Merry Christmas |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 25, 2018 7:25:21 GMT -5
Well, when it comes down to my conclusion about my realization vs somebody else's conclusion about their realization, yeah mine will likely win. Are you telling me you would be different?... What about you, Pilgrim?....Anybody?.... Well I guess the confusion/debate is twofold. First, some folks know some transcendent truths that others don't. Secondly, perhaps some realizations trump others, so then that creates debate. Realizations are never in conflict with each other. |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 25, 2018 7:35:59 GMT -5
I take that to be a transcendent Truth, yes. ZD says those experiences reveal what IS so. Okay, now this IS interesting. So you take it as 'transcendent truth' that you are conscious, alive, sentient, experiencing.....but when ZD, Reefs etc speak of a 'transcendent truth' that they have had....you have challenged it on the basis that it is a 'transcendent truth'!!! So are transcendent truths questionable or not? If they're not questionable, then you have to accept Reefs/ZD's transcendent truth, even though you may not personally yet know what they know. Just for the record, when I talk about CC I am referring to the realization, not the experience. ZD uses the term a lot more loosely. And I basically agree with Enigma about experiences not being realizations, always have. It's better to keep the terms apart and not mix them or else everyone thinks they had a CC. But I also do understand how someone who doesn’t have an actual reference for this realization would dismiss it as a spectacular woo-woo experience even though there’s nothing woo-woo about a CC. And there’s nothing I can do or say to change that either. That’s just the nature of realizations, you have to have had the actual realization in order to understand what’s been talked about. That’s called truthin’. On the contrary, if you haven’t had the realization but are at least open minded enough, you can come pretty close to a good conceptual understanding though, but it’s always going to be a mere shadow of the actual thing. Truth is not truthin'. |
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