Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 1:51:18 GMT -5
Andy has already agreed with Gopal that everything is an appearance in consciousness, so ignore whatever he tells you to placate you and keep you as an ally against the evil Gopal.  Well everything is perceived in or of the mind / consciousness .. I don't think there is anyone here that disputes that .. What is lacking though are explanations of how things come about from certain peeps . This lack of understanding across the various platforms regarding what is perceived as an appearance speaks volumes .. When a peep has to guess that they had a physical birth and one doesn't know if there mum is real yada yada yada, then their life is a little messed up if they truly live by their convictions ... butt we all know that certain peeps don't live by their beliefs, so it's difficult, near impossible to take them seriously .. There are a bunch of us here that see the flaws in what a peep says and what a peep does .. I suppose we are brothers in arms in this respect, butt it more of a common sense thing .. I mean if a peep believes that a bus is created by simply perceiving it and can't for the life of them manifest a bus at will then what's a peep going to do about the price of fish .. Which fish? Gopals stuck on the astral, where things appear immediately in front of the witness. Some folk stay in the Dreaming-Realm for centuries awaiting the right Womb in which to incarnate:Others just go where they're lead. Now about the bunch... who's in it?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 1:53:46 GMT -5
What? What do you mean by 'won't back down'? That you won't admit your supposed defeat in his eyes to the ones you're arguing with. It's pure projection. Ok, Thank you, Understand. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Sept 17, 2016 1:55:04 GMT -5
Well everything is perceived in or of the mind / consciousness .. I don't think there is anyone here that disputes that .. What is lacking though are explanations of how things come about from certain peeps . This lack of understanding across the various platforms regarding what is perceived as an appearance speaks volumes .. When a peep has to guess that they had a physical birth and one doesn't know if there mum is real yada yada yada, then their life is a little messed up if they truly live by their convictions ... butt we all know that certain peeps don't live by their beliefs, so it's difficult, near impossible to take them seriously .. There are a bunch of us here that see the flaws in what a peep says and what a peep does .. I suppose we are brothers in arms in this respect, butt it more of a common sense thing .. I mean if a peep believes that a bus is created by simply perceiving it and can't for the life of them manifest a bus at will then what's a peep going to do about the price of fish .. Which fish? Gopals stuck on the astral, where things appear immediately in front of the witness. Some folk stay in the Dreaming-Realm for centuries awaiting the right Womb in which to incarnate, Other just go where they're lead. Now about the bunch... who's in it? Their identity is protected ... I am sure they will get in touch with you through some sort of secret handshake or something .. Or watch out for those that have a twitch in their left eye . |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 1:56:21 GMT -5
The miracles may or may not have happened. My guess is that most of them are just fairytales. Probably all of them. For instance, it makes a far more compelling story if Joseph accepted Mary as pregnant with an unknown earthly sperm donors kid. It actually explains much of what Jesus said about his heavenly father and his attitudes about peeps in general. But the fact that intellect has discovered the bounds of solidity for what it is not only can't be denied, the impact of this on the culture and peoples ideas about their reality is unmistakable, and yeah, how people conceive of the world they live in does influence how they interact with it. How couldn't it? How can anyone with a sense of conceptualized identity (unconscious or otherwise) not define themselves to some degree by what they think of where they find that identity playing itself out? The message I got from the Zen sources was to suspend any and all of that, and just look, listen, touch and taste. This comported quite well with those physical activities in life I enjoyed the most, and after having the thinking process implode by following Tolle's advice, the Zen message was credible. But quite obviously, the koans are meant to disrupt and sow the kind of confusion to the world view that precipitates, motivates and catalyzes direct interaction and direct perception. If peeps conception of the world doesn't matter, why bother with the koans at all? If it doesn't matter, then why make the point of "real as rock"? Incidentally, "real as a rock" demonstrates my disdain for the term 'real', as rocks are also appearances in Consciousness. Exactly, I have the same problem when somebody says 'real as a rock'. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 2:05:27 GMT -5
All this 'everything appears' stuff is hogwash .. isn't it .. I went through this in great length regarding everything appears and I got no answer regarding HOW everything just appears . It is vital to understand the nature of what appears and how that appearance comes to be .. Otherwise peeps might think that the magic hat just conjures stuff out of thin air like I have suggested many times before . There was the notion that what appears comes to be just cos a perceiver perceives it lol, and that explanation held no foundation / weight based upon many examples I gave that questions such a notion and no further answers were received as to how the perceiver actually creates a physical bus or moon simply by bringing it into existence .. As you and I have discovered and a bunch of others here on the forums, the answers given are not answers as such .. It's the classic dodge and morph technique .. Andy has already agreed with Gopal that everything is an appearance in consciousness, so ignore whatever he tells you to placate you and keep you as an ally against the evil Gopal. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2016 2:14:45 GMT -5
Which fish? Gopals stuck on the astral, where things appear immediately in front of the witness. Some folk stay in the Dreaming-Realm for centuries awaiting the right Womb in which to incarnate, Other just go where they're lead. Now about the bunch... who's in it? Their identity is protected ... I am sure they will get in touch with you through some sort of secret handshake or something .. Or watch out for those that have a twitch in their left eye . Always best to keep a brown-eye out and on the ready, Like the maori did when the Queen visited her southern Colony. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Sept 17, 2016 2:36:16 GMT -5
But clearly Andy has had more tea to drink today than Gopal has had Pepsi. :D I think they both went to pee. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Sept 17, 2016 2:42:59 GMT -5
nonsense posing as an answer. What? Can you explain me? There's a difference between saying what you think and believing you have the answer. I wonder if anyone can make real conclusions, or if people just go deeper into understanding. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Sept 17, 2016 2:44:14 GMT -5
Yes. But you are making everything in-between a black box, it's not, we know a lot about in-between (but not nearly everything). There's nothing in between. Well, maybe a little greasy spot. Watch your step. I thought there was nothing but the between bit. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Sept 17, 2016 2:50:08 GMT -5
The same way a car can have an engine. Both are appearances. The thing which is appearing can't have anything, it's simply appearing. Is the car which is coming in movie has the engine? Isn't Just a image? But live people have real lived experiences. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2016 3:03:26 GMT -5
No, it has to be true. Putting glasses on is a very human endeavour, it requires a simple belief/assumption that I require them. You don't have to have that actual conscious thought though. It's not a belief that you require them if you require them. It's the recognition that you require them. It doesn't say it's all not an appearance in consciousness. Gravity is also an appearance in consciousness. Knowing that doesn't mean you can necessarily float around. The recognition that you require them comes with a belief. Hence why you were able to transcend your glasses. Gravity may be more tricky to transcend because it is collectively agreed on mass, but there are stories of folks that do transcend the belief in gravity. Gravity as an appearance? Hmmm. Interesting mixture of understandings on the subject of appearances floating around. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2016 3:05:02 GMT -5
The point is that of course this is how Gopal lives every day. So he does not live day to day by his own ~philosophy~ of how life works. Something is amiss here. Why have a view of how life works if you can't live by it?What would it mean to live by it? Actions are congruent with beliefs. So if you believe the bodymind you perceive next to you has no brain,it would be strange talking to it. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2016 3:09:51 GMT -5
You cannot make that jump. Look at yourself in a mirror. Everything is reversed. Say you have a bandaid on your left thumb. Look at it, on left thumb. Now look at the bandaid thumb in the mirror, it appears to be on your right thumb. Why would a mirror matter to consciousness? Why are the two appearances different? ....and what does that even mean, you are looking directly? Seriously?? It was a good point. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2016 3:17:35 GMT -5
I would say Andrew falls asleep and has a nightly dream, but then I would also say Andrew has a brain, heart, sensory organs. Gopal does not think Andrew has those things. Do you? Yeah, I'm pretty sure Andrew has those things. So your understanding of an appearance is different to gopal's. Gopal's appearances are not allowed to have attributes, so a body has no brain and sensory organs, a car has no engine or wheels. A house would have no kitchen, or lounge, or stairs. You are different I think, you basically say the world that we know is an appearance. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Sept 17, 2016 3:19:35 GMT -5
I see all experience as physical i.e sense of taste, sense of smell, sense of feeling etc. You can't have it both ways... you use the example of nightly dreams to show that both waking state and nightly dreams are an appearance in Consciousness. Well both, equally, are also physical experience. I refer to nightly dreams to shows that it's possible to have a convincing experience of an objective 'reality' when in actuality it's entirely formed subjectively in the mind. As such, there's not a dang thing physical about it. In the right context, of course. The mind you are talking about there is an individual mind. Asking someone about their nightly dream assumes they have an individual mind. |
|
