|
Post by zin on Mar 10, 2015 8:13:26 GMT -5
~~me looks understandingly~~
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 10, 2015 8:22:31 GMT -5
~~me looks understandingly~~ Context is not everything, but it's a lot. "What's bad is good what's good is bad, you find out when you reach the top, you're on the bottom...the idiot wind...". Bob Dylan
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 9:30:48 GMT -5
First you will come to the Sirens who enchant all who come near them. If any one unwarily draws in too close and hears the singing of the Sirens, his wife and children will never welcome him home again, for they sit in a green field and warble him to death with the sweetness of their song. There is a great heap of dead men's bones lying all around, with the flesh still rotting off them. Therefore pass these Sirens by, and stop your men's ears with wax that none of them may hear; but if you like you can listen yourself, for you may get the men to bind you as you stand upright on a cross-piece half way up the mast, and they must lash the rope's ends to the mast itself, that you may have the pleasure of listening. If you beg and pray the men to unloose you, then they must bind you faster.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 9:36:28 GMT -5
There is a backstory......but it's not mine to tell. Sometimes the heat inside the forum becomes more than one can stand. This is at least the fourth time that this has happened in the last five years. Retreating into bliss is obviously a lot safer than facing the truth, but advising others to cut and run is certainly a new twist. This brings to mind an interesting Zen story. A monk died, and when the monk's ZM saw the body laid out in preparation for cremation, he walked up, rapped the monk on the head three times with his hand, and said, "It's too bad. He knew how to die, but he didn't know how to live." The error is in the presumption of 'truth', it leaves no room for potential to reveal itself, it is stagnant.. people who come to this forum become 'wrong' if they don't acquiesce to the dominant belief system.. Tzu you also judge those wrong who do not acquiesce to your dominant belief system. Your judgement is veiled in terms of 'let go of ....' It's not a problem. We share our views, folks come and go.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Mar 10, 2015 9:47:10 GMT -5
Leave this place and never come back. Use all of your spare time to watch your mind. Delve deep into the space between thoughts. Follow the teaching of Ramana Maharshi; don't listen to anyone else. Leave this place and never come back. But if your ego has been bruised a little bit, then as a follower of Ramana you know what he would say. ."Find out to whom the feeling of bruising arises". Excellent advice!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 9:52:11 GMT -5
There is a backstory......but it's not mine to tell. Sometimes the heat inside the forum becomes more than one can stand. This is at least the fourth time that this has happened in the last five years. Retreating into bliss is obviously a lot safer than facing the truth, but advising others to cut and run is certainly a new twist. This brings to mind an interesting Zen story. A monk died, and when the monk's ZM saw the body laid out in preparation for cremation, he walked up, rapped the monk on the head three times with his hand, and said, "It's too bad. He knew how to die, but he didn't know how to live." The error is in the presumption of 'truth', it leaves no room for potential to reveal itself, it is stagnant.. people who come to this forum become 'wrong' if they don't acquiesce to the dominant belief system.. The monk story reveals the inherent arrogance in the 'truth' attachment.. Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 10, 2015 10:15:50 GMT -5
First you will come to the Sirens who enchant all who come near them. If any one unwarily draws in too close and hears the singing of the Sirens, his wife and children will never welcome him home again, for they sit in a green field and warble him to death with the sweetness of their song. There is a great heap of dead men's bones lying all around, with the flesh still rotting off them. Therefore pass these Sirens by, and stop your men's ears with wax that none of them may hear; but if you like you can listen yourself, for you may get the men to bind you as you stand upright on a cross-piece half way up the mast, and they must lash the rope's ends to the mast itself, that you may have the pleasure of listening. If you beg and pray the men to unloose you, then they must bind you faster.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 10, 2015 10:22:20 GMT -5
The error is in the presumption of 'truth', it leaves no room for potential to reveal itself, it is stagnant.. people who come to this forum become 'wrong' if they don't acquiesce to the dominant belief system.. The monk story reveals the inherent arrogance in the 'truth' attachment.. Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this. It means there are unknown unknowns (potential). With presumption of 'truth' you shut the door to seeing anything unknown, a deeper ground of being can't reveal itself to ~you~ if ~you~ shut the door ~to it~, by ~thinking~ you have already ~realized~ the Whole. What Tzu says is perfectly clear.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 10:29:10 GMT -5
Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this. It means there are unknown unknowns (potential). With presumption of 'truth' you shut the door to seeing anything unknown, a deeper ground of being can't reveal itself to ~you~ if ~you~ shut the door ~to it~, by ~thinking~ you have already ~realized~ the Whole. What Tzu says is perfectly clear. OK I'll take your word for it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 10:51:00 GMT -5
It means there are unknown unknowns (potential). With presumption of 'truth' you shut the door to seeing anything unknown, a deeper ground of being can't reveal itself to ~you~ if ~you~ shut the door ~to it~, by ~thinking~ you have already ~realized~ the Whole. What Tzu says is perfectly clear. OK I'll take your word for it. Let's have another go at this. There is an error in the presumption of truth. So that means if it is a presumption then it is not really the truth. It is some kind of guess or notion about what the truth is. OK I'll stop doing that. It's now been five minutes since I stopped doing that and I'm now waiting for potential to reveal itself. Hey what's happened to truth in the meantime? Is that now redundant. Does potential turn into truth. Can someone please throw me another pointer!
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2015 11:15:37 GMT -5
OK I'll take your word for it. Let's have another go at this. There is an error in the presumption of truth. So that means if it is a presumption then it is not really the truth. It is some kind of guess or notion about what the truth is. OK I'll stop doing that. It's now been five minutes since I stopped doing that and I'm now waiting for potential to reveal itself. Hey what's happened to truth in the meantime? Is that now redundant. Does potential turn into truth. Can someone please throw me another pointer! Okay, I'll try and throw you another pointer: There are people who 1) know that they know 2) don't know that they know 3) know that they don't know 4) don't know that they don't know According to Tzu, oneness means interconnectedness and separate and different are synonyms. Now it's up to you to decide to which category Tzu belongs and if his non-dual advice can be trusted or not. I would say it's pretty obvious.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 11:21:25 GMT -5
Let's have another go at this. There is an error in the presumption of truth. So that means if it is a presumption then it is not really the truth. It is some kind of guess or notion about what the truth is. OK I'll stop doing that. It's now been five minutes since I stopped doing that and I'm now waiting for potential to reveal itself. Hey what's happened to truth in the meantime? Is that now redundant. Does potential turn into truth. Can someone please throw me another pointer! Okay, I'll try and throw you another pointer: There are people who 1) know that they know 2) don't know that they know 3) know that they don't know 4) don't know that they don't know According to Tzu, oneness means interconnectedness and separate and different are synonyms. Now it's up to you to decide to which category Tzu belongs and if his non-dual advice can be trusted or not. I would say it's pretty obvious. Thankfully oneness is none of that. Just how far down the rabbit hole are you?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 11:30:28 GMT -5
The error is in the presumption of 'truth', it leaves no room for potential to reveal itself, it is stagnant.. people who come to this forum become 'wrong' if they don't acquiesce to the dominant belief system.. The monk story reveals the inherent arrogance in the 'truth' attachment.. Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this. Tzu doesn't like what he hears as the proselytizing of nonduality and advaita on this forum. He's conflating ZD's usage of 'truth' with this. ZD's usage of 'truth' is more general and is applicable to any situation where one who is being scrutinized and criticized (constructively or otherwise) and leaves instead of considering, openly and through discussion, the details. But Tzu bypassed this more general sense in favor of his favorite strawman, which he has strung up and beaten and burned since his very first day here. Ignoring the intended meaning of the original communication is a misdemeanor I feel like everyone commits, consciously or not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 11:34:06 GMT -5
Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this. It means there are unknown unknowns (potential). With presumption of 'truth' you shut the door to seeing anything unknown, a deeper ground of being can't reveal itself to ~you~ if ~you~ shut the door ~to it~, by ~thinking~ you have already ~realized~ the Whole. What Tzu says is perfectly clear. It's perfectly clear that he's taking the opportunity to wail away on the strawman again, whilst ignoring the post he's replying to. Interestingly, Tzu is the only one I've heard here say anything resembling already 'realizing' the Whole.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Mar 10, 2015 11:55:48 GMT -5
Room for potential to reveal itself? What does this even mean. I need some kind of decryption key to crack the meaning of this. It means there are unknown unknowns (potential). With presumption of 'truth' you shut the door to seeing anything unknown, a deeper ground of being can't reveal itself to ~you~ if ~you~ shut the door ~to it~, by ~thinking~ you have already ~realized~ the Whole. What Tzu says is perfectly clear. SDP: Jesus talked about "the living truth," and this is the same truth that I, also, point to. It is dynamic and non-conceptual--totally beyond the intellect. It is what we perceive when we look at the world with a still mind. Indeed, conceptualized truth is dead, as are all words and abstractions, but non-conceptual truth is radically alive. Please don't mistake one for the other. I can't help it if Tzu thinks he is the only one on the forum who can look at the world non-conceptually and see the action, but he is obviously mistaken. He must enjoy beating a dead horse because that's how his actions appear to me.
|
|